Hoosierdave Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: I'd be interested in specifics on this... 1) Player development- Has Justin Smith developed an outside shot that teams have to respect? Has Devonte Green gotten over his streetball ways? Is Rob P a guy we can consistently lean on like an Anthony Cowan, Xavier Simpson, Cassius Winston? Have our glaringly obvious problems (turnovers and outside shooting) been put to bed? We hyped this team up due to its depth but now all people want to talk about is shortening the bench. 2) Leadership- If you were an outsider, would you be able to tell that Durham and Green were our captains? Only guy that seems like he brings the energy and desire to lead is Brunk. That's alarming to me when your transfer is the hardest working guy on the team...Commentators always talk about how we're a "quiet" team. That's on Coach. 3) Accountability- We're almost done with year 3 and word around town is were having player meetings to find out if kids are buying in?! There's so much more it makes my head spin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said: 1) Player development- Has Justin Smith developed an outside shot that teams have to respect? Has Devonte Green gotten over his streetball ways? Is Rob P a guy we can consistently lean on like an Anthony Cowan, Xavier Simpson, Cassius Winston? Have our glaringly obvious problems (turnovers and outside shooting) been put to bed? We hyped this team up due to its depth but now all people want to talk about is shortening the bench. 2) Leadership- If you were an outsider, would you be able to tell that Durham and Green were our captains? Only guy that seems like he brings the energy and desire to lead is Brunk. That's alarming to me when your transfer is the hardest working guy on the team...Commentators always talk about how we're a "quiet" team. That's on Coach. 3) Accountability- We're almost done with year 3 and word around town is were having player meetings to find out if kids are buying in?! There's so much more it makes my head spin Your first 2 points are valid...the second one in particular. Devonte is who he is, and he's not going to change. Now I know prevailing thought would be "bench him." I even said earlier in the Rutgers post game thread if I had been the coach, when he lost the ball dribbling between his legs then didn't challenge the layup on the other end, I would have sat him for the rest of the game... We'll, look at the boxscore...Devonte only played 15 minutes...Hunter got more minutes than he did...think there was a message there? That also addresses to a point your 2nd and 3rd assesrtions...leadership was bestowed on Devonte and Al by their teammates. I think Archie wants the team to provide its own leaders, much like RMK did...you can lead a horse to water... I said in an earlier thread, Archie is trying to pound square pegs into round holes...some of the upperclassmen he wouldn't have recruited... But, they're on the team...Devonte can provide this offensively limited team value...think we would have beaten FSU without him? I don't know...maybe in the coming years I'll be proven a fool and finally come to the conclusion that Miller isn't the guy... But I'm willing to give him the chance. And to be honest, there are times when I think, considering the circumstances (leftover players injuries last year), he's done a pretty good job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, IUskim said: Oh no I agree. I’m in the camp that he’s a good coach he may or may not but the guy who knows like you said we just need smart players and see what happens. The problem is that he’s running out of time to bring in smart players. Say we miss the dance this season which is very realistic...how does he possibly bring in a good 2021 class? He’s a decent but certainly not great recruiter. What the hell is he going to sell them on? The fact that he MIGHT (50/50 at best) still be the coach when they arrive? There’s no way he gets a 5th year if we miss out next season. I just don’t see how he possibly succeeds if we don’t go dancing this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said: 1) Player development- Has Justin Smith developed an outside shot that teams have to respect? Has Devonte Green gotten over his streetball ways? Is Rob P a guy we can consistently lean on like an Anthony Cowan, Xavier Simpson, Cassius Winston? Have our glaringly obvious problems (turnovers and outside shooting) been put to bed? We hyped this team up due to its depth but now all people want to talk about is shortening the bench. 2) Leadership- If you were an outsider, would you be able to tell that Durham and Green were our captains? Only guy that seems like he brings the energy and desire to lead is Brunk. That's alarming to me when your transfer is the hardest working guy on the team...Commentators always talk about how we're a "quiet" team. That's on Coach. 3) Accountability- We're almost done with year 3 and word around town is were having player meetings to find out if kids are buying in?! There's so much more it makes my head spin Good points. I thought it was a real bad idea when players voted Green and Durham for captains. One is not known for accountability, and the other one is a quiet one. So basically, none of the Crean recruits were fit to be leaders. They're all good kids nonetheless, but they're just not leader materials. But are they even good followers? Players have to be good at least one thing; to lead or to be led. If they're not good at either, coach needs to make tough decisions. It's important to recruit talented kids, but it's equally important to build and maintain sound culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: The problem is that he’s running out of time to bring in smart players. Say we miss the dance this season which is very realistic...how does he possibly bring in a good 2021 class? He’s a decent but certainly not great recruiter. What the hell is he going to sell them on? The fact that he MIGHT (50/50 at best) still be the coach when they arrive? There’s no way he gets a 5th year if we miss out next season. I just don’t see how he possibly succeeds if we don’t go dancing this season. I guess that’s true. Then we start the whole cycle over again and wallow in our misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, IUskim said: I guess that’s true. Then we start the whole cycle over again and wallow in our misery. I think the new AD needs to either show a long term (3-4 year extension) commitment to Archie or move on immediately for the very reasons discussed here. If there isn't a backing by the new AD for Archie then recruiting is dead in the water. I'd personally give Archie more time. I know, I know - look how that turned out with the last coach(es) but I think Archie can actually coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblaz13 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 18 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Didn't watch and not terribly surprised. Rutgers is a very good team this year and elite defensively. Here's what I gather from the box score... IU's defense is very good. IU's shooting is very bad. Doesn't look like a lack of effort at least. Disappointing to lose, but they are no longer getting blown out on the road and if they can learn to shoot away from Assembly Hall, they have a chance to win on the road. A box score like this makes me disappointed, but not angry. As bad as they shot, at least it does not look like the team quit. Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: I think the new AD needs to either show a long term (3-4 year extension) commitment to Archie or move on immediately for the very reasons discussed here. If there isn't a backing by the new AD for Archie then recruiting is dead in the water. I'd personally give Archie more time. I know, I know - look how that turned out with the last coach(es) but I think Archie can actually coach. I say this in fear of being called a sunshine pumper and accepting mediocrity. I agree with you 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, IUskim said: I say this in fear of being called a sunshine pumper and accepting mediocrity. I agree with you 100 Fire him or extend him. Otherwise our next couple recruiting classes will consist of guys like Curtis Jones, Clifton Moore, Devonte Green, Al Durham, etc. There’s no way you can extend him if we miss the dance 3 years in a row. I mean what would it be based on? Fred’s word that he’ll be an iconic coach. At least Clappy had the Watshot and a Sweet 16 when he got that ridiculous buyout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said: Fire him or extend him. Otherwise our next couple recruiting classes will consist of guys like Curtis Jones, Clifton Moore, Devonte Green, Al Durham, etc. There’s no way you can extend him if we miss the dance 3 years in a row. I mean what would it be based on? Fred’s word that he’ll be an iconic coach. At least Clappy had the Watshot and a Sweet 16 when he got that ridiculous buyout. Based off giving a coach every chance to succeed which, by some accounts, he is not being given right now. I think Archie needs more time to shift the paradigm within the athletic department, and if he does he will win at a high level. Once the new AD is named and hopefully McRobbie gets out of the way, maybe there will be an actual commitment to having a winning basketball program again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUskim Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Fire him or extend him. Otherwise our next couple recruiting classes will consist of guys like Curtis Jones, Clifton Moore, Devonte Green, Al Durham, etc. There’s no way you can extend him if we miss the dance 3 years in a row. I mean what would it be based on? Fred’s word that he’ll be an iconic coach. At least Clappy had the Watshot and a Sweet 16 when he got that ridiculous buyout. How long is his current contract good through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 26 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said: Based off giving a coach every chance to succeed which, by some accounts, he is not being given right now. I think Archie needs more time to shift the paradigm within the athletic department, and if he does he will win at a high level. Once the new AD is named and hopefully McRobbie gets out of the way, maybe there will be an actual commitment to having a winning basketball program again. Good luck with that. I’d bet on Dolson and Robel being the successors which may actually be worse. Shoulders will never retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 16 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Good luck with that. I’d bet on Dolson and Robel being the successors which may actually be worse. Shoulders will never retire. Sunshine pumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Hoosierdave said: 1) Player development- Has Justin Smith developed an outside shot that teams have to respect? Has Devonte Green gotten over his streetball ways? Is Rob P a guy we can consistently lean on like an Anthony Cowan, Xavier Simpson, Cassius Winston? Have our glaringly obvious problems (turnovers and outside shooting) been put to bed? We hyped this team up due to its depth but now all people want to talk about is shortening the bench. 2) Leadership- If you were an outsider, would you be able to tell that Durham and Green were our captains? Only guy that seems like he brings the energy and desire to lead is Brunk. That's alarming to me when your transfer is the hardest working guy on the team...Commentators always talk about how we're a "quiet" team. That's on Coach. 3) Accountability- We're almost done with year 3 and word around town is were having player meetings to find out if kids are buying in?! There's so much more it makes my head spin You're saying that it's Archie's fault that Smith can't shoot? That's not his game, Smith is a markedly better player than he was a year ago. He's not a 6'8" Steph Curry, but he does a lot of things well. Odd that when you talk about our problems you leave out that our defense has gone from mediocre, at best, to outstanding. Why is it bad that a transfer is the hardest working guy on the team? Archie saw a need and he filled it. Archie isn't walking on water, but he has done a lot of things well. It remains to be seen where a roster full of his players and a little luck with injuries will take us, but to suggest Archie hasn't shown a lot of positives is not an honest assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Sunshine pumper. If only we could get IUgradman, fpeaugh, fkfootball, and Victorbear to start posting here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, dbmhoosier said: If only we could get IUgradman, fpeaugh, fkfootball, and Victorbear to start posting here... How about BalllinBob . Remember him ? He loved to shake things up. Yet, I did not have a problem with the way he went about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 15 hours ago, dbmhoosier said: Fire him or extend him. Otherwise our next couple recruiting classes will consist of guys like Curtis Jones, Clifton Moore, Devonte Green, Al Durham, etc. There’s no way you can extend him if we miss the dance 3 years in a row. I mean what would it be based on? Fred’s word that he’ll be an iconic coach. At least Clappy had the Watshot and a Sweet 16 when he got that ridiculous buyout. Patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 14 hours ago, dbmhoosier said: If only we could get IUgradman, fpeaugh, fkfootball, and Victorbear to start posting here... No thank you because then this place will be the same cesspool as rivals where only the worst IU fans go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: No thank you because then this place will be the same cesspool as rivals where only the worst IU fans go. The mods here would thankfully never allow that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 14 hours ago, dbmhoosier said: If only we could get IUgradman, fpeaugh, fkfootball, and Victorbear to start posting here... Also I think all of those are the same person because he gets banned and then come with another name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 16 hours ago, HoosierDom said: You're saying that it's Archie's fault that Smith can't shoot? That's not his game, Smith is a markedly better player than he was a year ago. He's not a 6'8" Steph Curry, but he does a lot of things well. Odd that when you talk about our problems you leave out that our defense has gone from mediocre, at best, to outstanding. Why is it bad that a transfer is the hardest working guy on the team? Archie saw a need and he filled it. Archie isn't walking on water, but he has done a lot of things well. It remains to be seen where a roster full of his players and a little luck with injuries will take us, but to suggest Archie hasn't shown a lot of positives is not an honest assessment. I agree that Justin is notably better this year. I think he's clearly more engaged in the game than last year when he'd kind of retreat and disappear. He may well never be a great shooter, but man! He really struggles with making shots inside 8 feet. It's frustrating and hard to believe he isn't capable of making those shots much more consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: I agree that Justin is notably better this year. I think he's clearly more engaged in the game than last year when he'd kind of retreat and disappear. He may well never be a great shooter, but man! He really struggles with making shots inside 8 feet. It's frustrating and hard to believe he isn't capable of making those shots much more consistently. That's one thing I noticed against Rutgers. In the 2nd half, Justin went to the basket with purpose and had some success. Joey brought it too. The play where he fought and got 3 shots at the hoop (the last one went in) was for me the highlight, and a model for TJD to follow. Trayce and Jerome seemed to have a little air go out of their balloons when they got their shots blocked inside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Wasn't sure where to put this. Guess I'll put here after our loss to Rutgers. Lunardi moved us from 8 seed to 9 seed in tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: I agree that Justin is notably better this year. I think he's clearly more engaged in the game than last year when he'd kind of retreat and disappear. He may well never be a great shooter, but man! He really struggles with making shots inside 8 feet. It's frustrating and hard to believe he isn't capable of making those shots much more consistently. He shoots 57% on 2pt attempts. I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 19 hours ago, HoosierDom said: You're saying that it's Archie's fault that Smith can't shoot? That's not his game, Smith is a markedly better player than he was a year ago. He's not a 6'8" Steph Curry, but he does a lot of things well. Odd that when you talk about our problems you leave out that our defense has gone from mediocre, at best, to outstanding. Why is it bad that a transfer is the hardest working guy on the team? Archie saw a need and he filled it. Archie isn't walking on water, but he has done a lot of things well. It remains to be seen where a roster full of his players and a little luck with injuries will take us, but to suggest Archie hasn't shown a lot of positives is not an honest assessment. Blame whoever you want but the point remains that Smith hasn't diversified his skill set and the coaching staff hasn't done enough to get him to that next level. Not asking Smith to be a 6'8 Steph Curry but I think a lot of analysts see a guy w/NBA caliber size and athleticism but will never make it to the league because he can't score unless he's right underneath the basket. A mid-range jumper would do wonders and I wouldn't have to watch him dribble it off his foot crashing to the rim or settling for these fadeaway hooks he likes to do so much. As for the defense, I left it out because I was responding to someone asking me what i was underwhelmed with. I don't mind that at this point in the season that Brunk is the hardest worker but I didn't like hearing that in the offseason Brunk is telling guys that practice isn't over and that they need more reps. The guy that has just stepped on campus shouldn't be the one setting the standard for effort and excellence, it should be guys already on the team molding him into our culture. Just IMO says a lot about the players attitudes/staff's inability to motivate these kids to go the extra mile. No offense but getting a little tired of hearing he needs a roster full of his players. Didn't take Juwan Howard, Chris Holtmann, Chris Mack, Lavall Jordan, Penny Hardaway, Anthony Grant, Eric Mussleman etc. this long to be successful with guys that don't fit their vision. Of the 5 players that get the most PT on this roster, 3 of them are Crean's guys. Seems to me like Crean's players are earning that PT because the guys that Archie recruited haven't developed enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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