CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, rico said: JSMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Also, I don't want that to be taken as a knock on the kids coming in. I just don't think that any of them should carry any expectation of being an immediate answer to our issues. If one develops into that, great, but they are mostly ranked down in the area where we should rationally be expecting them to need a year or two before we would count on them as being an impactful player. I think if any recruit can come in and contribute right away it will be Geronimo. I would also think Archie has to go out and get a grad transfer or sign another recruit or two in the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, IUrocker said: I honesty think that possibly addition by subtraction is what makes us better next year Perhaps, but I am not comfortable pinning my expectations on seeing marked improvement through "subtraction" and the addition of 3 rather unheralded freshmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: No man you have it backwards. If you don't have good guard play you'll lose, if anything that's exactly what happened in this game. Frontcourt 16-28 and we lost big, why, because we did not have spacing, did not have any play from the wing (Hunter being out hurt), and made terrible decisions on the perimeter. Do you really think if we had just tried to pound it inside all game it would've ended differently? Do you really think CAM should just play an utterly unidemensional pound it inside game? That's disaster. Your opinion, but I think part of your appraisal is in defense of your initial position that we should start 3 guards. I personally think that would be a disaster. We we're one of the best rebounding teams in the B10 playing the way we are with 3 bigs. Subsitute a guard in there and that goes away. Rewatch the MSU game. That's the way we CAN play with a big lineup...in that game.. Frontcourt: 16-31 Backcourt: 10-26 You say spacing is the issue, but with the 2 games I cited, it didn't seem to affect the FG percentages of our bigs... But what I see you advocating is putting MORE of the game into our guards hands...I'd much rather see Devonte or Al feeding the post over headlong drives to the basket or 3s as the shot clock expires... I personally don't think that's a recipe for winning with the group we have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, IUrocker said: I honesty think that possibly addition by subtraction is what makes us better next year ^ Posts from March 2019, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColtsIUDomer Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, rico said: Amazing what a bad loss does to this board. JSMH WOW, it sure is. Cheating? Count me OUT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, ColtsIUDomer said: WOW, it sure is. Cheating? Count me OUT. Just so we're clear, what is "cheating" in college basketball? Because there seems to be a lot of debate on this definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You say spacing is the issue, but with the 2 games I cited, it didn't seem to affect the FG percentages of our bigs... The inability of our guards to hit open outside shots lets the defense sag and clog up the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUrocker Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said: Perhaps, but I am not comfortable pinning my expectations on seeing marked improvement through "subtraction" and the addition of 3 rather unheralded freshmen. I just think the toughness and refuse to lose attitudes will be completely evident and be the biggest different alone when it comes to the freshman we have coming in. Just them knowing what it means to wear Indiana across their chest and actually giving a damn is the most welcome addition through subtraction to me. I understand that they may be unheralded and unknown from a talent standpoint right off the bat as freshmen, but I can guarantee they are gonna show more fight than the dudes we will be subtracting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, rico said: The inability of our guards to hit open outside shots lets the defense sag and clog up the middle. Upon what evidence for this team does a 3 guard lineup fix this issue. We don't have 3 guards on the roster we trust for 30 mins a game. At some point the "3 guard lineup" is a myth for this team, as pointed out by 5fouls in another thread. We don't have the personnel. Without a grad transfer, we don't next year either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, rico said: The inability of our guards to hit open outside shots lets the defense sag and clog up the middle. I agree with that...and I don't care how much we space them out, our guards not going to shoot a significantly better percentage because of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Kind of sickening what sports has come to with a lot of fans with the thought process of win at any cost attitude. I think the main reason we even see cheating besides money is the pressure coaches gets from fans to win right away. If coaches did not feel the pressure right away from ban bases and alumni and they know they had time to rebuild then maybe we would see a lot less unethical practices. We even see this attitude in the pros because you see coaches being fired after a year or two because they did not win quick enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said: Upon what evidence for this team does a 3 guard lineup fix this issue. We don't have 3 guards on the roster we trust for 30 mins a game. At some point the "3 guard lineup" is a myth for this team, as pointed out by 5fouls in another thread. We don't have the personnel. Without a grad transfer, we don't next year either. Might not have to go to a 3 guard lineup but a lineup of RP, Al, Hunter, Smith, TJD might loosen up the defense more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Kind of sickening what sports has come to with a lot of fans with the thought process of win at any cost attitude. I think the main reason we even see cheating besides money is the pressure coaches gets from fans to win right away. If coaches did not feel the pressure right away from ban bases and alumni and they know they had time to rebuild then maybe we would see a lot less unethical practices. We even see this attitude in the pros because you see coaches being fired after a year or two because they did not win quick enough. Glad someone won Powerball in Florida last night. If I win that bad boy...I'd have us on probation/sanctions within 4 years max. But we would have a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said: Upon what evidence for this team does a 3 guard lineup fix this issue. We don't have 3 guards on the roster we trust for 30 mins a game. At some point the "3 guard lineup" is a myth for this team, as pointed out by 5fouls in another thread. We don't have the personnel. Without a grad transfer, we don't next year either. I'm not sure he's advocating for a 3 guard lineup with his statement, just a fact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I know the story because I work with Henry's dad and Archie pretty much stopped calling after Anderson and Hunter committed. I just don't think it would a good judgments in talent if he thought Anderson was good enough to play at this level. I saw him twice on TV and came away wondering why he was offered in the first place. Yes I have heard you say you work with Henry’s dad. I watched Henry on tv a couple of times and it would have been hard to know that he would be this good this soon. The roster composition is on CAM completely. It doesn’t matter if glass told him he had to keep players. CAM is in charge of the program and there is a fine line apparently in evaluating some players! But the 2 scholarship that we’re not filled certainly could have added some back court shooting. I am pulling for CAM but some of his thinking may have to change if he is going to be successful in the big ten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 13 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Like I said in the game thread, they are who we thought they were. Mediocre team trying to scrap its way into the tournament. Probably going to have to win out at home to do it, because I don’t see any road wins on the horizon. Just impossible to win if you can’t hit more than 2 threes on the road. Just want to echo the above bolded statement. And surprised at those who are freaking out. A.) Penn State is a better team than us and ranked in the top 25. I went into this game expecting to lose. B.) This IU team is a fringe tournament team. They have been all year. C.) Fringe tournament teams are inconsistent - but with more better nights than bad nights. I guess my question to those flipping their lid is: Did you not think our offense, specifically our guards, were going to have another off night ON THE ROAD? If so, what lead you to believe that would be the case? 2 decent performances in a row at home? ....This is just going to be one of those seasons. We are going to lose to better teams on the road - that's the way it works in the B1G. Sometimes our offense will be clicking and we'll lose by a little and other times we'll get ran off the court. And maybe they'll pull out a surprise victory or two from their collective butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: Kind of sickening what sports has come to with a lot of fans with the thought process of win at any cost attitude. I think the main reason we even see cheating besides money is the pressure coaches gets from fans to win right away. If coaches did not feel the pressure right away from ban bases and alumni and they know they had time to rebuild then maybe we would see a lot less unethical practices. We even see this attitude in the pros because you see coaches being fired after a year or two because they did not win quick enough. Listen Scott, the days of pure student athlete college athletics are over. Its a multibillion dollar industry. Blame the fans I guess because it wouldn't be without viewership. But to pump in this kind of money to an industry and expect highly motivated individuals to operate within loose, unregulated parameters set forth by an organization with no enforcement leverage is never going to happen. Until someone gets more teeth behind the NCAA's bite, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, (insert program here) will continue to get away with nearly anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, IUrocker said: I just think the toughness and refuse to lose attitudes will be completely evident and be the biggest different alone when it comes to the freshman we have coming in. Just them knowing what it means to wear Indiana across their chest and actually giving a damn is the most welcome addition through subtraction to me. I understand that they may be unheralded and unknown from a talent standpoint right off the bat as freshmen, but I can guarantee they are gonna show more fight than the dudes we will be subtracting. I hope you're correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUrocker Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Zuckerkorn said: I hope you're correct. Me too lol, probably more wishful thinking on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyHoosier Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I'm not sure he's advocating for a 3 guard lineup with his statement, just a fact... I agree. If we had 3 guard that could shoot, feed the post, and make smart decisions it would be a no-brainer. Most good tournament teams have 3-4 of them. We have maybe 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Rob was awful - miss more layups for crying out loud Why waste the breath on DG - is who we know he is and should play never again Durham tries, but is just mediocre and out of control sometimes — need better players Franklin will be fine, just young DA - needs to transfer - can’t play D or make shots - doesn’t help in any way JH - struggling to understand how he doesn’t force himself into that game when he sees how poorly our shooting is. Wondering if he’s gun shy after his part in blowing the MD game - scared Smith - Decent game actually - cut out the turnovers though Brunk - pathetic game - can’t be mad at him - happens TJD - Solid as usual. DD - positive influence - just not good enough. My take. We can’t win with poor performances from Rob, which makes AF’s development huge or another PG important. The other guard play is atrocious. CAM isn’t perfect, but he’s still dealing with juniors and seniors that we can’t really count on and don’t really want on our team. I think he’s trying his best to use substitutions to keep the important guys fresh while at the same time not letting certain guys kill us, but unfortunately we don’t have enough guys that really help us right now. We don’t have guys healthy enough to run out 6 guys the whole game, especially when foul trouble creeps in. Our best players / most important IMO are RP, TJD and JB, and two of those guys were really bad tonight. Would NOT have mattered if CAM did anything different. Granted, I would have enjoyed a message being sent the last five minutes, but whatever. The next two recruiting classes are very important or CAM won’t be around three years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Cutter said: Yes I have heard you say you work with Henry’s dad. I watched Henry on tv a couple of times and it would have been hard to know that he would be this good this soon. The roster composition is on CAM completely. It doesn’t matter if glass told him he had to keep players. CAM is in charge of the program and there is a fine line apparently in evaluating some players! But the 2 scholarship that we’re not filled certainly could have added some back court shooting. I am pulling for CAM but some of his thinking may have to change if he is going to be successful in the big ten We would probably would have McKinley Wright as our PG right now if he would had not kept the recruits in that class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said: Rob was awful - miss more layups for crying out loud Why waste the breath on DG - is who we know he is and should play never again Durham tries, but is just mediocre and out of control sometimes — need better players Franklin will be fine, just young DA - needs to transfer - can’t play D or make shots - doesn’t help in any way JH - struggling to understand how he doesn’t force himself into that game when he sees how poorly our shooting is. Wondering if he’s gun shy after his part in blowing the MD game - scared Smith - Decent game actually - cut out the turnovers though Brunk - pathetic game - can’t be mad at him - happens TJD - Solid as usual. DD - positive influence - just not good enough. My take. We can’t win with poor performances from Rob, which makes AF’s development huge or another PG important. The other guard play is atrocious. CAM isn’t perfect, but he’s still dealing with juniors and seniors that we can’t really count on and don’t really want on our team. I think he’s trying his best to use substitutions to keep the important guys fresh while at the same time not letting certain guys kill us, but unfortunately we don’t have enough guys that really help us right now. We don’t have guys healthy enough to run out 6 guys the whole game, especially when foul trouble creeps in. Our best players / most important IMO are RP, TJD and JB, and two of those guys were really bad tonight. Would NOT have mattered if CAM did anything different. Granted, I would have enjoyed a message being sent the last five minutes, but whatever. The next two recruiting classes are very important or CAM won’t be around three years from now. Hunter was sick and that is why he did not play last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuckerkorn Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Cutter said: Yes I have heard you say you work with Henry’s dad. I watched Henry on tv a couple of times and it would have been hard to know that he would be this good this soon. The roster composition is on CAM completely. It doesn’t matter if glass told him he had to keep players. CAM is in charge of the program and there is a fine line apparently in evaluating some players! But the 2 scholarship that we’re not filled certainly could have added some back court shooting. I am pulling for CAM but some of his thinking may have to change if he is going to be successful in the big ten 100% agree. I was happy he was hired and I still believe he's the best coach we've had since RMK (including the cheater). While I believe Archie is a knowledgeable and capable basketball coach, I don't think it's unfair to suggest that his teams haven't performed or improved. I truly feel he is saddled with a roster that is far from superior to the competition, but 3 years in it shouldn't be as flawed as what it appears to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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