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Penn State Postgame Thread


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9 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

Long story short, does Archie survive a 3rd straight tournament denial?  When your backs against the wall, I expect a little more emotion from a leader whose troups continue to embarrass Hoosier Nation every road game.  The unglued comment was directed towards Archie’s lack of respect he continues to get form the B10 officials since entering the league.  No pulse from the players or coach on the road is embarrassing so hope this message was a little more clarifying.

So getting t'd up or thrown out of a game garners and demands respect?  I'm confused.   I'd say more than anything it appeases fans that want "a little more emotion from a leader whose troups continue to embarrass Hoosier Nation every road game." 

But I'm curious how you think this would get respect from officials.  

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8 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

Sooner or later it won’t matter what CAM is asking as his butt will be drawing unemployment checks!  

He will be here for at least 5 years. Has to have a chance with his players.  So you'll have to keep hating on him for 2 more years.  But you're entitled to do that.

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10 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

No worries, this is a message board and we’re all entitled to our opinions which are just that opinions until become facts.  I’m praying for Rob to be the leader we all hoped for but I guess I had bigger expectations is all.  

No you’re not wrong at all there ...I thought he’d do more sooner also ...I think 1. Injuries have set him back 2. Our horrendous outside shooting had made his job harder in general as a result of what defense can do against us and 3. He probably looks better than he is at the moment because the rest of the backcourt is SO inconsistent and so devoid of creating for others 

 

in terms of the eyeball test though I think he’s capable and I think that will show more if we become capable of spacing the floor and ALSO if every time he makes a wing pass it doesn’t result in that guard or wing either forcing a tough shot or blowing a wide open one 

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40 minutes ago, Rogermci said:

He will be here for at least 5 years. Has to have a chance with his players.  So you'll have to keep hating on him for 2 more years.  But you're entitled to do that.

You’re absolutely out of your mind if you think we can miss the dance this season and next and he still gets a 5th year.

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3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

You’re absolutely out of your mind if you think we can miss the dance this season and next and he still gets a 5th year.

Where will you find an elite coach that will take the coaching job knowing you only have 4 years with the previous players to build a top ten team and will at some points in time during your tenor be endlessly criticized on a message board that your family and friends will probably read?  

His success at Dayton was not random luck or smoke and mirrors.  5 years is a fair amount of time for all parties concerned.   

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32 minutes ago, Rogermci said:

Where will you find an elite coach that will take the coaching job knowing you only have 4 years with the previous players to build a top ten team and will at some points in time during your tenor be endlessly criticized on a message board that your family and friends will probably read?  

His success at Dayton was not random luck or smoke and mirrors.  5 years is a fair amount of time for all parties concerned.   

Having 4 years to build a top ten team?  We’re talking about building a top 68 team in 4 years.

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1 minute ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Having 4 years to build a top ten team?  We’re talking about building a top 68 team in 4 years.

You're welcome to say what you want.  Another post that potential recruits will read because this board is the most widely accessible.   Of course slams like this would be apparent to even 16 and 17 year olds to not be one from a real IU fan.  

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10 minutes ago, Rogermci said:

You're welcome to say what you want.  Another post that potential recruits will read because this board is the most widely accessible.   Of course slams like this would be apparent to even 16 and 17 year olds to not be one from a real IU fan.  

Lol... what?

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12 hours ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said:

No you’re not wrong at all there ...I thought he’d do more sooner also ...I think 1. Injuries have set him back 2. Our horrendous outside shooting had made his job harder in general as a result of what defense can do against us and 3. He probably looks better than he is at the moment because the rest of the backcourt is SO inconsistent and so devoid of creating for others 

 

in terms of the eyeball test though I think he’s capable and I think that will show more if we become capable of spacing the floor and ALSO if every time he makes a wing pass it doesn’t result in that guard or wing either forcing a tough shot or blowing a wide open one 

Yes and for myself I tend to forget that 4yr players are 4 yr players for a reason.  I will put Aarman Franklin in this same category!  If CAM can add a special 5 star talent to go with a Sr Rob & Jr Franklin, Soph Leal & company we may have something.  We’re all just frustrated & need patience.

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11 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Having 4 years to build a top ten team?  We’re talking about building a top 68 team in 4 years.

It took 4 yrs just to get rid of the prior regime players and with the players CAM is recruiting, it will take another 2-3 for them to develop.  Look at Villanova, bunch of 4 star players but took them to be upperclassmen before success.  Takes time fellas & the corner is close so patience is a virtue.

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10 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah - I'm saying the Romeo recruitment was dead when Archie got hired. That was widely reported. 

Still doesn’t change the fact Crean started it by offering the scholarship. Yet Archie gets credit because he sealed the deal. Just like Dayton’s coach gets credit for sealing the deal with recruits originally offered by Archie 

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10 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Still doesn’t change the fact Crean started it by offering the scholarship. Yet Archie gets credit because he sealed the deal. Just like Dayton’s coach gets credit for sealing the deal with recruits originally offered by Archie 

Saying Tom Crean is responsible for Romeo going to IU is akin to saying Al Gore invented the internet...

But you probably believe that too...

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23 hours ago, Rogermci said:

Where will you find an elite coach that will take the coaching job knowing you only have 4 years with the previous players to build a top ten team and will at some points in time during your tenor be endlessly criticized on a message board that your family and friends will probably read?  

His success at Dayton was not random luck or smoke and mirrors.  5 years is a fair amount of time for all parties concerned.   

None of this is incorrect. It’s all accurate and fundamentally sound thinking.

What isn’t? Being petulant and impertinent because we’ve slipped into bad habits and aren’t playing up to our potential again and thinking Archie should be fired really soon.

As a matter of fact, despite its egregious deficiencies, this team has been able to play at higher levels and this confirms Archie can coach.

Our single biggest problem: we have upper classmen who are either physically limited (Deron), or are mentally incapable of consistent play (Justin, Al), or, and I’m sorry, I know we shouldn’t be overly critical of our own, but I have absolutely had it with Devonte. The kid is simply phoning it in at this point. Big time. With him you have an effort issue combined with basketball IQ problems, topped off by false idol problems. In short, I believe Devonte believes he is capable of next level play, has been given innumerable opportunities to use his talents within the flow of the team, and continues to attempt to don his super hero cape. And, it just never works. I’m so sick of “just hoping tonight’s the night” for Devonte. A couple 25+ point efforts a season are simply not worth his deterioration of the fabric of the team.
 

For those claiming our ultimate  success is intrinsically linked to Devonte: you’re right. He absolutely must be our last guard off the bench. His energy, his ridiculously haphazard play, and his inability to maintain team consistency make him the primary reason this team struggles. I’ve waited and debated on whether I could fully support this position. I’m ready to bet the farm.

Archie has tried to be inclusive. He has proven, with big game and close game success, he can coach. When the very same team turns around and gets smoked, it’s an effort issue. I agree he bears responsibility for that, but, he isn’t on the court putting in the work. Come game time, all he can do is put them into positions to succeed. If they don’t because they aren’t executing, not so much a coach’s fault.

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13 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

It took 4 yrs just to get rid of the prior regime players and with the players CAM is recruiting, it will take another 2-3 for them to develop.  Look at Villanova, bunch of 4 star players but took them to be upperclassmen before success.  Takes time fellas & the corner is close so patience is a virtue.

So a coach needs six to seven years?

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On 2/1/2020 at 11:15 AM, Rogermci said:

Where will you find an elite coach that will take the coaching job knowing you only have 4 years with the previous players to build a top ten team and will at some points in time during your tenor be endlessly criticized on a message board that your family and friends will probably read?  

His success at Dayton was not random luck or smoke and mirrors.  5 years is a fair amount of time for all parties concerned.   

Quite a bit of room between Top 10 and missing the tournament 4 years in a row (a hypothetical because Miller has not missed 4 in a row and I expect he will make it this year.)

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23 minutes ago, Radio Zero said:

So a coach needs six to seven years?

The timeframe seems to keep getting longer doesn't it?

The reason it is getting pushed out now is because, while help is on the way, it does not appear to be the type of help that pays off in year one.  I said in the offseason that I thought getting to the tournament this year could be a tall order.  I think we are going to make it, but I don't think we are going to comfortably make it.  I think that could end up being the case again next year.

To me, a big question would be, what happens if we make the tournament this year but miss again next year?  Would our ability to have landed a big class for 2021 weigh heavily on a decision at that point?

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15 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

The timeframe seems to keep getting longer doesn't it?

The reason it is getting pushed out now is because, while help is on the way, it does not appear to be the type of help that pays off in year one.  I said in the offseason that I thought getting to the tournament this year could be a tall order.  I think we are going to make it, but I don't think we are going to comfortably make it.  I think that could end up being the case again next year.

To me, a big question would be, what happens if we make the tournament this year but miss again next year?  Would our ability to have landed a big class for 2021 weigh heavily on a decision at that point?

Must add start now ability in the back court.  Repeat from last year.  We can sneak in the tourney this year and margin of error will be even smaller next, in the backcourt, relying on the often injured RP, the scrambler Al Durham,  Armaan, and 3 frosh that likely aren't start now B1G guys, no offense. 

Any tough MAC point guards that can shoot on the grad market?

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21 hours ago, Radio Zero said:

So a coach needs six to seven years?

At this point I am so confused on who to give credit to or who to blame. Seems like there is a narrative available to support any and all positions . 

Last year at 12-1 we praised CAM but when things fell apart and the rough patches this year is because we still have CTC players. Many bash CTC for not winning yet at UGA with someone's else's players. Grant has Dayton top 10 but is it with CAMS or his players. I dont buy any of the crap. Each coach gets paid to coach the team in front of them. They deserve the credit and the blame cant keep playing the back and forth to fit the narrative.  This is CAM team win or lose. NO EXCUSES NO EXPLANATION. 

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42 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

At this point I am so confused on who to give credit to or who to blame. Seems like there is a narrative available to support any and all positions . 

Last year at 12-1 we praised CAM but when things fell apart and the rough patches this year is because we still have CTC players. Many bash CTC for not winning yet at UGA with someone's else's players. Grant has Dayton top 10 but is it with CAMS or his players. I dont buy any of the crap. Each coach gets paid to coach the team in front of them. They deserve the credit and the blame cant keep playing the back and forth to fit the narrative.  This is CAM team win or lose. NO EXCUSES NO EXPLANATION. 

Plus 1,000,000.

Agree that the coach gets paid to coach the players.
There are 4 “Crean players” left. Two of the four (Smith and Durham) never even played for Crean, and Archie re-recruited them to stay and could have moved on from them without APR implications,  but somehow Crean apparently used his mystical powers to infect Durham and Smith to such an extent that three years of Archie coaching has not been able to remove the spell.
There are 13 scholarships and only 2 of those are being taken by guys that played for Crean. An equal number of scholarships (2) are not even being used despite our need for another PG and shooter.  
This is not a “fire CAM post” but rather a post saying that three years in the results are his. Hopefully we win our home games, get in the tourney, pick up a decent transfer and the ship sails in the right direction.

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