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Is it time to consider starting Hunter over Smith?


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I definitely think Hunter should be getting 20+ minutes at this point.  You can really see him starting to gain some confidence.

Not ready to say 'start him' yet, because the season is still salvageable and IU needs good play from Justin Smith to make that happen.  But, definitely think extended minutes from Hunter a necessary for overall program growth.  

Race, if healthy, should also be getting 15-20.

Armaan is more of a situational thing.  If the 3 older guards are playing well, then there is no need to force Franklin into the game.  If one or more are sucking, then try Franklin and see whether he has it that game.  But, truthfully, he is just as inconsistent as the other 3.

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

I definitely think Hunter should be getting 20+ minutes at this point.  You can really see him starting to gain some confidence.

Not ready to say 'start him' yet, because the season is still salvageable and IU needs good play from Justin Smith to make that happen.  But, definitely think extended minutes from Hunter a necessary for overall program growth.  

Race, if healthy, should also be getting 15-20.

Armaan is more of a situational thing.  If the 3 older guards are playing well, then there is no need to force Franklin into the game.  If one or more are sucking, then try Franklin and see whether he has it that game.  But, truthfully, he is just as inconsistent as the other 3.

I think the only reason Hunter is getting the minutes is defense.  Like the blow by back door for layup in the first half.  Think the B1G hasn't scouted him on that?  Someone read the fred Hoiberg playbook.  Think it was the 1st Nebraska game Hunter game up 2-3 and the 2nd game 1 or 2 backdoors. 

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20 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I think the only reason Hunter is getting the minutes is defense. 

Maybe true, but from where I'm sitting, his defense is not all that bad. He forced at least one turnover today and he's pretty active both on and off the ball. He's still technically a freshman, so he's going to get beat occasionally, but he's definitely improving. That said, I agree with @5fouls. We'll need Justin to be a confident and competent part of this team going forward. I don't see why you'd start Jerome over JS at this point for pure chemistry reasons. 

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18 minutes ago, rico said:

Justin needs to play the 4...Jerome at the 3

If people feel as strongly about Hunter as they seem to be - and the point about the starters needing his shooting is a good one - why not move Brunk to the second unit? Personally, I'd consider either he or Smith. I just think  something needs to change. And, if Hunter keeps the shooting up, I then wonder how much more effective that makes our post guys.

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1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:
2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

 

I think the only reason Hunter is getting the minutes is defense.  Like the blow by back door for layup in the first half. 

But to be honest, Jerome was out of position because Joey hadn't recovered to get out on Kaleb Wesson...he was caught in between guarding his man, or giving Wesson an open look at a 3...

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Three of my all time least favorite players and I can't wait till they are gone. Smith, Green and Durham. They could leave tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me one bit. Mental midgets, selfish and they are not winners. They think they are better than they are and they have no ability to lead and make the players around them better. None of them have improved over their careers and I have no idea why they play the minutes they do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, jefftheref said:

Three of my all time least favorite players and I can't wait till they are gone. Smith, Green and Durham. They could leave tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me one bit. Mental midgets, selfish and they are not winners. They think they are better than they are and they have no ability to lead and make the players around them better. None of them have improved over their careers and I have no idea why they play the minutes they do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think a big question that needs answered is if player development is on the players or coaching Staff?  I lean on Coaching staff to push these players & to put each in a position to succeed but reading many comments on this board seems to lean on the players?  Ideally it’s 50/50 so what is this yrs problem, players, coaches or BOTH?

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5 hours ago, jefftheref said:

Three of my all time least favorite players and I can't wait till they are gone. Smith, Green and Durham. They could leave tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me one bit. Mental midgets, selfish and they are not winners. They think they are better than they are and they have no ability to lead and make the players around them better. None of them have improved over their careers and I have no idea why they play the minutes they do. 

Can we please, please, PLEASE STOP DOING THIS?!!!!!!!!!

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My starters would be THD,Race, Hunter, Franklin an Rob. Then I would rotate the others in as needed. And if they play well give them a few more minutes. 
yes with only 9 regular season games left you hate to change ,but we have got to do something at least when we go on the road! 

 

 

 

 

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At this point in the season I'm open to any and all changes. I believe TJD, Brunk, and RP give us the best chance of winning.....with that said IU is 5-6 in conference, losers of 3 in a row....I'm open to all changes. We just can't keep running the same 3-4 guys out there hoping they'll suddenly change and if we do that's a conversation I'll wait to have until the end of the season.

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In Archies post game he said "its time to consider changing paths" not sure what to take from that, but I would think giving guys like Hunter and Race more minutes. my personal opinion I would love to see a starting 5 of TJD, Race, Hunter, Durham, and Rob. Race isnt the best shooter, but I have more confidence when he shoots then when Smith does. I think this lineup stretches the floor more. 

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5 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i think Brunk has to remain a big part of this.  sure there are games where he may need to play less minutes due to match ups, but he has played a nice role.  we are best when he and TJD are working together and getting shots off interior passing.  

My issue with playing Brunk and TJD at the same time is neither can shoot 5 feet from the basket. I think TJD can but he seems scared too... Also, I would think if both aren't in there it might open up some driving lanes and make the paint less crowded. 

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I think most would agree that Jerome has shown steady progress as the season has unfolded and he may be the only player on the roster that we could say that about.  I don't know if he's ready to be a starter, but it's definitely debatable.

I had a thought yesterday that struck me as a pretty strong indictment of the rest of our roster: if he continues his upward trajectory (and not even needing to make a huge further improvement), Jerome and Trayce could be the best players on the roster at the end of the season.  Think about it - our best two players are guys that never played in a college basketball game before this season began.  That's really not a glowing review of our seniors, juniors, or sophomores.

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1 minute ago, Zuckerkorn said:

I think most would agree that Jerome has shown steady progress as the season has unfolded and he may be the only player on the roster that we could say that about.  I don't know if he's ready to be a starter, but it's definitely debatable.

I had a thought yesterday that struck me as a pretty strong indictment of the rest of our roster: if he continues his upward trajectory (and not even needing to make a huge further improvement), Jerome and Trayce could be the best players on the roster at the end of the season.  Think about it - our best two players are guys that never played in a college basketball game before this season began.  That's really not a glowing review of our seniors, juniors, or sophomores.

What do you think is the issue with "Tom Creans Guys" not developing the Archies system? Do you think they would better players in Toms more offensive minded system? I think Durham is better then the first day he stepped on campus but I cant say the same for the rest.

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5 minutes ago, Hoosier83 said:

What do you think is the issue with "Tom Creans Guys" not developing the Archies system? Do you think they would better players in Toms more offensive minded system? I think Durham is better then the first day he stepped on campus but I cant say the same for the rest.

In fairness Smith is much, much better than he was as a frosh. Night and day. I continue to think he should be playing a more traditional 4 however, playing on the perimeter is not his game. 
Rob has been continuously plagued by injury. Don’t think one can really criticize his development. He’s minimally a really solid point guard. Need him healthy. 
More generally, when players are recruited for a particular type of system and playing style, pay in that system, and then are switched with a new staff and coach into a very different system the results can be slow or just not work out as well as if they were originally recruited and came up in the current system 

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45 minutes ago, Hoosier83 said:

My issue with playing Brunk and TJD at the same time is neither can shoot 5 feet from the basket. I think TJD can but he seems scared too... Also, I would think if both aren't in there it might open up some driving lanes and make the paint less crowded. 

definitely a good point.  it limits us in spacing the floor.  i just think they are our better decision makers as far as taking shots and knowing their limitations.  whether they play well or not in a given game, they play hard and tough.  

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1 minute ago, Hoosier83 said:

What do you think is the issue with "Tom Creans Guys" not developing the Archies system? Do you think they would better players in Toms more offensive minded system? I think Durham is better then the first day he stepped on campus but I cant say the same for the rest.

I have no answer to that question.  What I can say is that Hunter is the only player in the past 3 seasons that has shown real improvement as the season progressed - and let's face it, a big part of it was him needing to re-acclimate to playing competitive basketball again.  Green is who he is.  Al busts his butt, but continues to make the same mistakes as last year.  Rob? He's sort of an enigma to me, he's definitely our best PG option but still makes too many poor decisions.  DeRon is so limited and hampered by the various injuries.  Smith is probably a perfect example of an athlete with the physical tools to be very good but can't get 'em out of the toolbox, he's a smart kid and great student but I don't think he's a natural basketball player.  Brunk is limited physically, but probably has as good of a work ethic as there is on the team, in yesterday's game he was faced with his kryptonite - trying to guard players like the Wesson's who stretch out to the 3-point range. Damezi, hate to say it but he's our homegrown Evan Fitzner - a scorer who struggles to get points.

As we did our post-season autopsy of last season, I recall commenting that by year 3 there are no more excuses for mediocre play.  I really don't care who recruited this player or that one.  Archie's job is to put a competitive team on the floor.  He needs to assemble the roster to do that and he is the boss.  If there are players on the roster that don't fit the scheme or lack the ability, he needs to either send them on their way or put them at the end of the bench and play guys that can/will contribute.  Beyond the holdovers and CTC recruits, it's CAM's roster.  Like Bum Phillips said about the NFL, it stands for "Not for Long" and while I believe Archie will be here for most if not all of his contract, he's in a hole and it's not getting any shallower.

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11 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

In fairness Smith is much, much better than he was as a frosh. Night and day. I continue to think he should be playing a more traditional 4 however, playing on the perimeter is not his game. 
Rob has been continuously plagued by injury. Don’t think one can really criticize his development. He’s minimally a really solid point guard. Need him healthy. 
More generally, when players are recruited for a particular type of system and playing style, pay in that system, and then are switched with a new staff and coach into a very different system the results can be slow or just not work out as well as if they were originally recruited and came up in the current system 

I was about to post this regarding Justin.  He has expanded his game considerably.  He’s definitely able to drive way better.  You see it when he goes and gets a bucket on a drive that can start out on the perimeter even when guarded hard.  If he improves next year as much as he did this year, he might even have a jumper next year.   He’s a more consistent rebounder.  

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57 minutes ago, Hoosier83 said:

My issue with playing Brunk and TJD at the same time is neither can shoot 5 feet from the basket. I think TJD can but he seems scared too... Also, I would think if both aren't in there it might open up some driving lanes and make the paint less crowded. 

That's been a point of contention on this board for a while now...Should we start 3 bigs (Brunk, Smith, and TJD) or replace one of the bigs with a more natural 3.

Hoosierhoopster and BGleas have lobbied for the latter, while myself and others have tried to defend the former. I always understood their point, but in my eyes the team, as it is currently comprised and at its current skill level, was better off hammering the ball inside and taking advantage of our size by beating teams on the boards.

Their rebuttal was to say we were clogging up the lane, and a natural 3 would open it up while also providing an outside shooting threat.

I think Jerome's emergence in the past few games has warmed me to their way of thinking. If he continues to shoot from outside the way he has, it's a no-brainer that we're a better offensive team.

The only question I have is, are we giving away too much on the defensive end (and I think Jerome is improving their as well) and on the boards, particularly the offensive glass. Say what you want about Justin's hands, but he does get a lot of "clean-up" on the offensive boards...

So, to me, there are the trade offs...

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3 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I was about to post this regarding Justin.  He has expanded his game considerably.  He’s definitely able to drive way better.  You see it when he goes and gets a bucket on a drive that can start out on the perimeter even when guarded hard.  If he improves next year as much as he did this year, he might even have a jumper next year.   He’s a more consistent rebounder.  

His ball handling has certainly gotten better.  A year ago I would cringe whenever he put it on the floor, but he's had several occasions this season where he brought the ball up the floor (and made the pass in the frontcourt).  His drives are frustrating to me.  He'll have one like we saw yesterday and then we don't see it again for the rest of the game.  Everyone on this team needs a jumper (not to mention the ability to finish around the rim).  Purely speculation, but I wonder if Justin just has a passive mindset?  IDK

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