Finally. Prime Time For The IU vs PU Pre-Game Thread

[milehiiu]

7 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

It's on ESPN.

When I started this thread, nearly a week ago, Indiana University was showing the game to be on ESPN2.  Hence, my condemnation in my initial post.  I just checked.  Not doubting you. And Indiana University is now showing the game on ESPN.  I then checked the ESPN schedule.  And it is now showing the game on ESPN, rather than ESPN2.  Where a rivalry game of this type should have been, in the first place.  Don't know how much influence IU has on ESPN. But I do know IU athletics monitors our board. And would like to think it was HSN members who helped get this game moved to where it should have been from the get go.

GO HOOSIER SPORTS NATION !

GO HOOSIERS !

[GrangerHoosier]

What bothers me is that I do believe we win the game, but it'll be in doubt late and we end up winning probably by 4-8 points.

The game in Mackey I fully expect to be over by halftime and we lose by 20.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, GrangerHoosier said:

What bothers me is that I do believe we win the game, but it'll be in doubt late and we end up winning probably by 4-8 points.

The game in Mackey I fully expect to be over by halftime and we lose by 20.

Why would it bother you if we win the game

[GrangerHoosier]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Why would it bother you if we win the game

The belief that Purdoo will be competitive in AH, but we will not be in Mackey.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, GrangerHoosier said:

The belief that Purdoo will be competitive in AH, but we will not be in Mackey.

Never know and as long as we win I don't care by how much

[HoosierJax]

Anybody catch the big news from Purdue today...some guys at work said it’s on the news

[dbmhoosier]

1 minute ago, HoosierJax said:

Anybody catch the big news from Purdue today.

Keady attending tomorrow?

[IU Scott]

13 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

Anybody catch the big news from Purdue today...some guys at work said it’s on the news

Maybe someone stole their Helm's banner

[HoosierJax]

28 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Keady attending tomorrow?

I’m working on IU campus today..so it’s kinda of a joke..WTHR.com has a headline about an announcement from Purdue today...not basketball related,but funny to an IU fan poking fun of Purdue..had to look it up to get it

[BGleas]

57 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Why would it bother you if we win the game

I don't know why people are fighting this eye test thing so hard? Yes, at the end of the day all that matters is winning, we all get that, but before the end of the day comes things like rankings, seedings, NET rating, etc., all matter too. They play into seedings, who you'll play in tournaments, etc., and if one team has an average margin of victory of 2 pts and the other has one at 14 pts, people are going to say the team beating opponents more soundly is better. 

Beating opponents more soundly shows a higher level of play. It gets you ranked more and it improves your NET, KenPom and other metrics.  

I'd argue that if IU beat Purdue by 16, beat Iowa by 22, then lost at Michigan by 1 pt we'd have a much better chance at being ranking and have better metrics in the rankings, as opposed to beating Purdue and Iowa by 3 each and then losing by 24 at Michigan. The record would be the same, but the perception would be much different. 

Yes, at the end of the day we all just want wins, but how you win/lose is also an indication of how good your team is. 

[Stlboiler23]

1 hour ago, dbmhoosier said:

Keady attending tomorrow?

Yep it’s confirmed he’ll be there. 

[Leathernecks]

12 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I don't know why people are fighting this eye test thing so hard? Yes, at the end of the day all that matters is winning, we all get that, but before the end of the day comes things like rankings, seedings, NET rating, etc., all matter too. They play into seedings, who you'll play in tournaments, etc., and if one team has an average margin of victory of 2 pts and the other has one at 14 pts, people are going to say the team beating opponents more soundly is better. 

Beating opponents more soundly shows a higher level of play. It gets you ranked more and it improves your NET, KenPom and other metrics.  

I'd argue that if IU beat Purdue by 16, beat Iowa by 22, then lost at Michigan by 1 pt we'd have a much better chance at being ranking and have better metrics in the rankings, as opposed to beating Purdue and Iowa by 3 each and then losing by 24 at Michigan. The record would be the same, but the perception would be much different. 

Yes, at the end of the day we all just want wins, but how you win/lose is also an indication of how good your team is. 

Going along with your point, there is a reason we have been the 12th ranked B1G team on Kenpom for a while now.  If we could have played better in some of our games you mentioned before, we might have the same record, but we could be around 30th instead of 40th.  Right now we have a really slim margin for error.

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Going along with your point, there is a reason we have been the 12th ranked B1G team on Kenpom for a while now.  If we could have played better in some of our games you mentioned before, we might have the same record, but we could be around 30th instead of 40th.  Right now we have a really slim margin for error.

Exactly. It matters. Kenpom ranking, NET ranking, etc. Even the fan perception. IU's outlook and positioning would be much different if IU was winning big at home and losing close, tough road games, even if the record was the same. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

43 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Exactly. It matters. Kenpom ranking, NET ranking, etc. Even the fan perception. IU's outlook and positioning would be much different if IU was winning big at home and losing close, tough road games, even if the record was the same. 

Yes it matters, for sure. But it's not just getting several large-margin wins, you also have to look at things like who the team lost to.

For example, as quoted above, PU has 2 losses to sub-50 teams, Wisc has 3. We have 0. 

PU lost at Neb 70-56, as in by 14. We won at Neb, by 8. PU lost at Illinois 63-37. They scored 37 freaking points. They lost, at home, 79-62 to Illinois. They lost 70-51, at home, to Wisconsin. This is not better than IU. It's just not.

[IU Scott]

43 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Exactly. It matters. Kenpom ranking, NET ranking, etc. Even the fan perception. IU's outlook and positioning would be much different if IU was winning big at home and losing close, tough road games, even if the record was the same. 

I am glad we did have these metrics in 87 because we probably wouldn't have been a 1 seed.  We barely beat the two bottom teams in UW and NW on the road that year and went 3 OT's to beat UW.

[FW_Hoosier]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes it matters, for sure. But it's not just getting several large-margin wins, you also have to look at things like who the team lost to.

For example, as quoted above, PU has 2 losses to sub-50 teams, Wisc has 3. We have 0. 

PU lost at Neb 70-56, as in by 14. We won at Neb, by 8. PU lost at Illinois 63-37. They scored 37 freaking points. They lost, at home, 79-62 to Illinois. They lost 70-51, at home, to Wisconsin. This is not better than IU. It's just not.

To be honest, after looking through the schedules, Purdue is the only team I’d currently put IU ahead of if they were seeding the tourney today (along with Nebraska and Northwestern obviously).

[BGleas]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I am glad we did have these metrics in 87 because we probably wouldn't have been a 1 seed.  We barely beat the two bottom teams in UW and NW on the road that year and went 3 OT's to beat UW.

Yeah, no. There's a difference between being 15-7 and squeaking by bad teams at home and getting crushed on the road vs. being 30-4, finishing tied with the best record in the conference, and  winning almost every game you've played. 

[Billingsley99]

Did anyone hear Butch Carter on Dakich? I did not get to hear it.

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, no. There's a difference between being 15-7 and squeaking by bad teams at home and getting crushed on the road vs. being 30-4, finishing tied with the best record in the conference, and  winning almost every game you've played. 

It was a joke

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Did anyone hear Butch Carter on Dakich? I did not get to hear it.

Nope

[Hoosierhoopster]

29 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

To be honest, after looking through the schedules, Purdue is the only team I’d currently put IU ahead of if they were seeding the tourney today (along with Nebraska and Northwestern obviously).

I wasn't ranking the B1G teams, I was talking about the idiotic metrics. Look at PU's metrics. Seriously, it's absurd. I really don't care if people take a negative outlook and see our W's as somehow worse than our competitors' W's. But the way the metrics are being used is just stupid here.

If I wanted to dig deeper into comparing our and the other teams' respective records, it would be pretty easy to make the case we should be higher 'ranked'. Just a quick glance at Wisconsin's schedule, for example. Lost at home to St. Mary's. Lost 62-52 to Richmond. Richmond? Lost 59-50 to New Mexico. Lost at NC State 69-54. This is better than IU? So they definitely started playing better, but lost at home to Illinois 71-70 (much like our MD loss), beat MD by a basket at home, lost at MSU by 12, lost at PU 70-51, lost at Minn 70-52... OK.

[Proud2BAHoosier]

I just hope the officials that did the OSU vs. Mich. game are not the ones doing the game tomorrow.....

[IU Scott]

14 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I wasn't ranking the B1G teams, I was talking about the idiotic metrics. Look at PU's metrics. Seriously, it's absurd. I really don't care if people take a negative outlook and see our W's as somehow worse than our competitors' W's. But the way the metrics are being used is just stupid here.

If I wanted to dig deeper into comparing our and the other teams' respective records, it would be pretty easy to make the case we should be higher 'ranked'. Just a quick glance at Wisconsin's schedule, for example. Lost at home to St. Mary's. Lost 62-52 to Richmond. Richmond? Lost 59-50 to New Mexico. Lost at NC State 69-54. This is better than IU? So they definitely started playing better, but lost at home to Illinois 71-70 (much like our MD loss), beat MD by a basket at home, lost at MSU by 12, lost at PU 70-51, lost at Minn 70-52... OK.

I agree with you but UW lost to St. Mary's was on a neutral court.  To me this is what you get when you let computers tells us who the best teams are instead of actual basketball people.  To me for the selection committee I would rather see them hire 12 former players and coaches to be on the committee and there sole job is to watch games all year around.

[BGleas]

44 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

It was a joke

In my defense, it's hard to tell when you get going on the 80's 😀

[dgambill]

On ‎02‎/‎06‎/‎2020 at 12:49 PM, BGleas said:

Here's my concern with this game and the rest of the season. I realize everyone for the most part is winning at home and losing on the road, that's pretty consistent. But the devil is in the details. Purdue smashed MSU, Wisconsin and Iowa at home, just crushed them. They've had their road issues, but they also lost in OT @Michigan, lost by 7 @Maryland, lost by 7 @Rutgers and won @NW. 

You can say the same for some other teams in the conference. They all have a home loss or two like IU and they've all gotten smashed on the road, but they almost all also have some home games where they've smashed teams and some road games where they've won and some road loses where they've at least competed. 

IU is just squeaking by teams at home. We barely beat Nebraska and NW at home. Squeaked by MSU, etc. Then, beyond the @Neb game, IU gets absolutely smashed on the road. We're squeaking by teams at home and then getting crushed on the road. That's a dangerous recipe and one that caught up to IU with the Maryland home loss. 

Why isn't IU crushing teams at home like some of these other guys? There's no reason Nebraska and NW should be able to come into Assembly Hall and nearly steal some wins. Where is IU's game where they just blow an MSU out of the water at home? 

 

IU doesn't have a team that is going to win games by 20 plus points. Even playing really well we just don't hit enough 3's to do it. Combine that with the fact we like to force other teams to shoot 3's we essentially help keep teams in the game. We don't have a consistent enough scoring offense to go on 10-0 runs to run away with a game. We are a grind it out possession by possession team. Opponent would have to have a really horrible night and we just have shots falling to see it get beyond 20. We just don't have big offensive swings in games. A couple 8-0 runs here and there but that is about it. These other teams have some shooters that when they get hot (together) can put you on a 15-3 run pretty easy. We play a game where we shouldn't be out of any game because of our defense, getting to the foul line, and post strength but we also don't have explosive enough offense to really run away from anyone. When we play bad we usually give up a 12-15 pt run...and then the rest of the game ranges plus 6 minus 6 but we simply don't get back. Conversely we can play really well and get up 10 but a couple 3's and that lead evaporates and then the game just stays in that 4-10 pt range. It takes no defensive/energy lapses for 40 mins for us to really put a team away...and we just simply can't do that with what usually happens when we get certain back court combinations on the floor together. Unfortunately we are thin at guard and it's inevitable that we have to play those combos. I expect a very hard/physical game inside...I don't expect Purdue to shoot an insane clip from 3. I expect a game that doesn't get more than 5-6 pts either way and we win it at the free throw line late (yes I think we hit them this time).