IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Watching a of college games this year and noticed that scoring in most of the games are lower than they use to. I am watching the IU/Duke game from the 87 tournament and the way the offense is ran now is so different than it is today. Everyone has always said how RMK offense was a slower offense but to me that is so off base. In this game they had 49 points at half and the game before it against Auburn they had 53 at half. In these games there are no ball screens and the floor is spread they use off the ball screens. In the first half IU did not have a possession where they passed more than 4 times before they shot. Both teams post players caught the ball and made quick decisions to either pass it back out or to do a turn around shot. they did not put the ball on the floor at all in the post. I just don't understand ow coaches today thinks what they are running today is a better offense than what I have watched I these two games from 87 tournament. In these games there were no forced shots at the end of the shot clock that had to be shot. There was not a possession that went even close to the shot clock expiring because teams got into their offense quickly. There were so many plays where Calloway or Smart or Alford would curl around a screen to get an easy 12-15 foot shot in the lane. My question to you is why do you think that offenses have struggled to score points today compared to the past. Here are a few thoughts I have. 1) to much dribbling 2) shot clock is to short at 30 seconds 3) Teams wait to long to actually get into an offense 4) teams don't spread the floor out as well 5) teams are younger and with transfers teams don't get old together. 6) pace of play is to slow 7) to much stops and starts in play with to many replays Sorry for the rant but lately how teams run offenses is getting hard to watch. I also think the coaches micro manage way to much and don't let their players have any freedom on offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Watching a of college games this year and noticed that scoring in most of the games are lower than they use to. I am watching the IU/Duke game from the 87 tournament and the way the offense is ran now is so different than it is today. Everyone has always said how RMK offense was a slower offense but to me that is so off base. In this game they had 49 points at half and the game before it against Auburn they had 53 at half. In these games there are no ball screens and the floor is spread they use off the ball screens. In the first half IU did not have a possession where they passed more than 4 times before they shot. Both teams post players caught the ball and made quick decisions to either pass it back out or to do a turn around shot. they did not put the ball on the floor at all in the post. I just don't understand ow coaches today thinks what they are running today is a better offense than what I have watched I these two games from 87 tournament. In these games there were no forced shots at the end of the shot clock that had to be shot. There was not a possession that went even close to the shot clock expiring because teams got into their offense quickly. There were so many plays where Calloway or Smart or Alford would curl around a screen to get an easy 12-15 foot shot in the lane. My question to you is why do you think that offenses have struggled to score points today compared to the past. Here are a few thoughts I have. 1) to much dribbling 2) shot clock is to short at 30 seconds 3) Teams wait to long to actually get into an offense 4) teams don't spread the floor out as well 5) teams are younger and with transfers teams don't get old together. 6) pace of play is to slow 7) to much stops and starts in play with to many replays Sorry for the rant but lately how teams run offenses is getting hard to watch. I also think the coaches micro manage way to much and don't let their players have any freedom on offenses. Good post Scott. I imagine a lot can be said for the reasons you presented. A few of mine are... -how teams live and die by the 3 -the lost art of the mid-range shot -ESPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Also I don't if it was just players were just better shooters back then or they were just more confident in their shooting but kids back then was nt afraid to step up and take a shot. I think I have counted 5 possessions where Alford took a shot off the first pass and hit 4 of them. Teams jus pushed the ball up the court a lot faster and got into the offense faster. It drives me crazy seeing these teams in the last 3 or 4 minutes just try to dribble out at least 20 seconds on the shot clock before doing anything on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, rico said: Good post Scott. I imagine a lot can be said for the reasons you presented. A few of mine are... -how teams live and die by the 3 -the lost art of the mid-range shot -ESPN I totally agree about the mid range shot. Calloway and Smart would maybe take two dribbles then stop for a 12 foot jumper which were almost automatic. Today kids drives all the way to the basketball where there are two defenders waiting for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Kids do not have the discipline in them nor are they disciplined the way they were back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 IU scores in the 87 tournament 92, 107, 88, 77, 97, 74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, IU Scott said: IU scores in the 87 tournament 92, 107, 88, 77, 97, 74 Scott, you keep focusing on '87...offensive numbers changed that year. It was the 1st year for the 3-point shot. Focus on years before '87 and leave out '83(those numbers would be skewed as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 If you watch a women’s game, theny run much better offense. A few mid-major men’s programs run more sophisticated offensive systems. Between early exits, transfers and reduced practice time, most major D1 men’s programs are limited to very simple offense. The analytics effect has already been covered. Product has deteriorated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWOHoosier Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 While I agree with many of the reasons already cited for offensive issues, I think the main cause is the amount of physicality allowed in today’s game. Shooters are not protected at all if they are within 7 feet of the basket and cutters can’t make cuts without being grabbed and chucked repeatedly. Once the game got this physical, offensive flow ceased to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Whatever the cause, the game just is not as enjoyable to watch as it used to be. I find myself watching fewer and fewer games every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: If you watch a women’s game, theny run much better offense. A few mid-major men’s programs run more sophisticated offensive systems. Between early exits, transfers and reduced practice time, most major D1 men’s programs are limited to very simple offense. The analytics effectvhas already been covered. Product has deteriorated Agree 100% and I'll add that the men's game has become overly physical in my opinion...hard to score when you're not getting what use to be known as a foul called... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Zero Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 Does anyone else other than Scott and myself hate how short the shot clock has gotten? I’m too young to remember the days when there wasn’t one at all (born in ‘72), but I was actually fine with the 45 second clock. 35 was okay, too, but the current one bothers me a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loviubb Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: Watching a of college games this year and noticed that scoring in most of the games are lower than they use to. I am watching the IU/Duke game from the 87 tournament and the way the offense is ran now is so different than it is today. Everyone has always said how RMK offense was a slower offense but to me that is so off base. In this game they had 49 points at half and the game before it against Auburn they had 53 at half. In these games there are no ball screens and the floor is spread they use off the ball screens. In the first half IU did not have a possession where they passed more than 4 times before they shot. Both teams post players caught the ball and made quick decisions to either pass it back out or to do a turn around shot. they did not put the ball on the floor at all in the post. I just don't understand ow coaches today thinks what they are running today is a better offense than what I have watched I these two games from 87 tournament. In these games there were no forced shots at the end of the shot clock that had to be shot. There was not a possession that went even close to the shot clock expiring because teams got into their offense quickly. There were so many plays where Calloway or Smart or Alford would curl around a screen to get an easy 12-15 foot shot in the lane. My question to you is why do you think that offenses have struggled to score points today compared to the past. Here are a few thoughts I have. 1) to much dribbling 2) shot clock is to short at 30 seconds 3) Teams wait to long to actually get into an offense 4) teams don't spread the floor out as well 5) teams are younger and with transfers teams don't get old together. 6) pace of play is to slow 7) to much stops and starts in play with to many replays Sorry for the rant but lately how teams run offenses is getting hard to watch. I also think the coaches micro manage way to much and don't let their players have any freedom on offenses. Nice post! It was always pass first dribble if needed. The 3 point shot being moved back ( this year) has helped teams pack the lane. On 7 I wish teams could not have free timeouts and should not be able talk to coach. They should go to neutral corners. #5 way to much in transfers being able to play at the start of 1st year. All should sit at least a semester. And yes teams are too young year in and year out. 37 Again why have Refs if everything is replayed. IU was hosed a couple of times at OSU. but either no replay (ball off no replay OSU) no look at all but replay on TV clearly showed it. Make coaches use a challenge and lose a time out if not overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 2, 2020 Report Share Posted February 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, Radio Zero said: Does anyone else other than Scott and myself hate how short the shot clock has gotten? I’m too young to remember the days when there wasn’t one at all (born in ‘72), but I was actually fine with the 45 second clock. 35 was okay, too, but the current one bothers me a lot. I recall when CBK said why not make it 10 seconds and play jai alai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jv1972iu Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 hours ago, IU Scott said: Watching a of college games this year and noticed that scoring in most of the games are lower than they use to. I am watching the IU/Duke game from the 87 tournament and the way the offense is ran now is so different than it is today. Everyone has always said how RMK offense was a slower offense but to me that is so off base. In this game they had 49 points at half and the game before it against Auburn they had 53 at half. In these games there are no ball screens and the floor is spread they use off the ball screens. In the first half IU did not have a possession where they passed more than 4 times before they shot. Both teams post players caught the ball and made quick decisions to either pass it back out or to do a turn around shot. they did not put the ball on the floor at all in the post. I just don't understand ow coaches today thinks what they are running today is a better offense than what I have watched I these two games from 87 tournament. In these games there were no forced shots at the end of the shot clock that had to be shot. There was not a possession that went even close to the shot clock expiring because teams got into their offense quickly. There were so many plays where Calloway or Smart or Alford would curl around a screen to get an easy 12-15 foot shot in the lane. My question to you is why do you think that offenses have struggled to score points today compared to the past. Here are a few thoughts I have. 1) to much dribbling 2) shot clock is to short at 30 seconds 3) Teams wait to long to actually get into an offense 4) teams don't spread the floor out as well 5) teams are younger and with transfers teams don't get old together. 6) pace of play is to slow 7) to much stops and starts in play with to many replays Sorry for the rant but lately how teams run offenses is getting hard to watch. I also think the coaches micro manage way to much and don't let their players have any freedom on offenses. Lack of team play. Lack of fundamentals and basketball IQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 hours ago, rico said: Scott, you keep focusing on '87...offensive numbers changed that year. It was the 1st year for the 3-point shot. Focus on years before '87 and leave out '83(those numbers would be skewed as well). I was just using that year because I have been watching those game son YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Radio Zero said: Does anyone else other than Scott and myself hate how short the shot clock has gotten? I’m too young to remember the days when there wasn’t one at all (born in ‘72), but I was actually fine with the 45 second clock. 35 was okay, too, but the current one bothers me a lot. Just go watch the 81 game in the tournament against Maryland. With no shot clock and no 3 point line IU still scored 99 points in that game. It was a fast pace game where we did not use much time to get good shots and players were ready to shoot when they got the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrangerHoosier Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 NCAA needs to: Move the 3 pt line back to where it was Go to 6 fouls instead of 5 35 second shot clock Widen the paint Cut down on replays The product has suffered through the years, likely as a result of the AAU/shoe culture permeating in the game. Teams don't have enough discipline to run an offense anymore, they'd rather shoot 3s because it's what they see in the pro game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 2 hours ago, GrangerHoosier said: NCAA needs to: Move the 3 pt line back to where it was Go to 6 fouls instead of 5 35 second shot clock Widen the paint Cut down on replays The product has suffered through the years, likely as a result of the AAU/shoe culture permeating in the game. Teams don't have enough discipline to run an offense anymore, they'd rather shoot 3s because it's what they see in the pro game. I like much of what you listed but wouldn't adding another foul just give incentive to play even rougher, less free flow basketball than we are already seeing? I remember there being a game last year with something ludicrous like 75 free throws and over 45 player fouls. Why would anyone pay for that garbage? The last time the 3 pt line went back it took a little over 2 years before the percentages caught back up. Watching IU basketball exacerbates the issue in our eyes. Nationwide 3 pt % are down and heading for the worst in 17 years. Here's a fun article to read on it. https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/basketball/2019/12/27/ncaas-3-point-line-rule-how-its-affecting-college-basketball/2665343001/ North Florida, who is hitting the most 3s in the nation per game, coach said, “It’s creating an unbelievable amount of spacing,” he said. Insert cry emoji. Kenpom said, "“I wouldn’t be opposed to them moving it back to the NBA line,” Pomeroy said. “I think the more you move the 3-point line back, the more it becomes a true skill, and so the good shooters can take advantage of it and the bad shooters can’t.” Replays need to be done and decided before the officials even walk over to some idiotic screen. The fans know the call in 2 seconds. Broadcast booths know the call. Everyone knows the call. All the officials have to do is say to the table, who is mic'd and listening to some head reviewer, say home or away. 2 seconds, play ball. Widening the paint was in the article. And a mention about shot clock but it didn't say what direction. I doubt they go backwards so let's beg them to leave it alone because going to 24 in college would be absolute trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 How about 80% of all fouls being ignored? The game has just gotten stupid physical and it makes for ugly games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 14 hours ago, Radio Zero said: Does anyone else other than Scott and myself hate how short the shot clock has gotten? I’m too young to remember the days when there wasn’t one at all (born in ‘72), but I was actually fine with the 45 second clock. 35 was okay, too, but the current one bothers me a lot. A lot has changed since I started watching. -A 3-pt line. -Shot clock -Double bonus -Alternate possession -Widening the lane -Replay review I am sure there are others I am forgetting. The game has definitely changed rules wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 10 hours ago, GrangerHoosier said: NCAA needs to Go to 6 fouls instead of 5 The old Big East tried that for 3 years in early 90s. The ratio of FT attempts to shot attempts went way up. NCAA killed the rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, rico said: A lot has changed since I started watching. -A 3-pt line. -Shot clock -Double bonus -Alternate possession -Widening the lane -Replay review I am sure there are others I am forgetting. The game has definitely changed rules wise. I have realized that I am not very tech savvy because I was trying to find out what was the scoring average for college basketball in 1981. You asked about what was the average before they implemented the shot clock and the 3 point line. I went to sports reference and can't figure out how to do that. Just going off my memory it just seemed like scoring was higher before the shot clock and 3 point line. Teams played with a good pace and got into their offenses right away and their offense right away. I do remember teams holding the ball in the last 5 minutes of the game which I hated but during the game it was a pretty fast pace game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 5 hours ago, FKIM01 said: How about 80% of all fouls being ignored? The game has just gotten stupid physical and it makes for ugly games. Ding-ding-ding...we have a winnah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I have realized that I am not very tech savvy because I was trying to find out what was the scoring average for college basketball in 1981. You asked about what was the average before they implemented the shot clock and the 3 point line. I went to sports reference and can't figure out how to do that. Just going off my memory it just seemed like scoring was higher before the shot clock and 3 point line. Teams played with a good pace and got into their offenses right away and their offense right away. I do remember teams holding the ball in the last 5 minutes of the game which I hated but during the game it was a pretty fast pace game. I don't know where to find an over-all scoring average for the entire NCAA myself on a year to year basis. But team wise it is easy... https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana/ In 1981 we averaged 70.0 ppg...in 1987 we averaged 82.5. In 1993 we averaged 86.5 ppg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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