KoB2011 Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, dgambill said: Not sure I understand this graph...but the fact that Wentz line basically mirrors Brissetts probably isn't good it seems. It means Wentz did very, very little to add to our expected points. As has been theorized in this thread, a lot of Wentz's numbers were pretty meaningless. Forget who replaces him, can you really look your team in the eye that is pretty close to being ready to compete now and say we are going to pay $30M for a QB that was below average in most advanced metrics? It's a pretty tough sell to me on a team full of really talented guys that are being held back by dead weight at QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: See I disagree, Wentz isn't worth not having the chance to go get a better guy over. You probably can't go get the better guy if you have Wentz under contract, because you are paying him his full salary. You could get the other team to take him on if you trade for an upgrade, but then you're having to give up even more like the Rams did to send Goff off and we frankly don't have the draft capital to pay someone to take Wentz. Wentz's contract is basically non-guaranteed....I think they can cut him anytime with a minimal cap hit (couple million). If they agree on a trade or signing a free agent they can move on for nothing. Phily paid all his guaranteed money/signing bonus. No reason to cut him until you have something in place. He being on the roster will not keep the Colts from getting a qb if that is what they want to do. They can cut him anytime and owe basically nothing....well at least up until like July 1st or some date like that....but any qb move would be made well before then. They just aren't going to cut him before finding his replacement. Either they land someone better...or they keep him....they aren't going to make a lateral move imo or risk not landing anyone by cutting him first. Edited January 12, 2022 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, dgambill said: Wentz's contract is basically non-guaranteed....I think they can cut him anytime with a minimal cap hit (couple million). If they agree on a trade or signing a free agent they can move on for nothing. Phily paid all his guaranteed money/signing bonus. No reason to cut him until you have something in place. He being on the roster will not keep the Colts from getting a qb if that is what they want to do. They can cut him anytime and owe basically nothing....well at least up until like July 1st or some date like that....but any qb move would be made well before then. They just aren't going to cut him before finding his replacement. Either they land someone better...or they keep him....they aren't going to make a lateral move imo. His salary for next season becomes guaranteed on like March 19. If they cut him before that they save like $15m, which could pay for a stud WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: His salary for next season becomes guaranteed on like March 19. If they cut him before that they save like $15m, which could pay for a stud WR. You're not going to get a stud WR without a QB in place though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: His salary for next season becomes guaranteed on like March 19. If they cut him before that they save like $15m, which could pay for a stud WR. There is not much of a precedent for doing well with "high paid" WRs in FA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: His salary for next season becomes guaranteed on like March 19. If they cut him before that they save like $15m, which could pay for a stud WR. You are right sort of. I was looking at 23 numbers...my bad. Actually the Colts are on the hook for 15m next year regardless. The 15 million vested on the 3rd calander day of the 21 season (so already past). If they cut him before March 19th they only save the 7 million of his guaranteed salary. As far as cap implecations it looks like it doesn't matter if they hold on to him up unto the June 1st deadline....where they can save the 13 million if they cut/trade him. Basically the Colts will have him another year imo unless they find a major upgrade...they aren't going to take the cap hit and pay to find another lesser qb. https://overthecap.com/player/carson-wentz/4715/ Edited January 12, 2022 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, btownqb said: There is not much of a precedent for doing well with "high paid" WRs in FA. Agree. Paying for skill position players in FA is a losing proposition imo. They are usually on the decline/later in their career with their skills already starting to wane. FA in general is just not where you want to live. Ballard has done well taking guys who are willing to bet on themselves with short contracts looking to bounce back from injuries or younger guy who are looking for a bigger role/opportunity but haven't broke out. I really don't think given how much amazing talent is coming out of college every year at WR that many good GMs are going to invest a ton of $$ in the FA market. I really see at this moment 1 really likely big name WR free agent that will hit the market and should garner a TON of attention. That is Chris Godwin and even he is coming off a torn ACL. Adams I just can't see us affording or paying to get and his list of suiters will be limited imo to who can afford him...Allen Robinson was very underwhelming and about to enter those dreaded 30's in this next contract. Shuster is intriguing but I'm not sure about his attitude issues, and Gallup is also an option. Ballard seems to like big wrs so maybe a DJ Chark Jacksonville lets him walk...but that is more redundant to what we have in Pittman. So I don't think we will spend big at WR....so any money saved from Wentz probably wouldn't effect what we do at the wr corp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, dgambill said: Agree. Paying for skill position players in FA is a losing proposition imo. They are usually on the decline/later in their career with their skills already starting to wane. FA in general is just not where you want to live. Ballard has done well taking guys who are willing to bet on themselves with short contracts looking to bounce back from injuries or younger guy who are looking for a bigger role/opportunity but haven't broke out. I really don't think given how much amazing talent is coming out of college every year at WR that many good GMs are going to invest a ton of $$ in the FA market. I really see at this moment 1 really likely big name WR free agent that will hit the market and should garner a TON of attention. That is Chris Godwin and even he is coming off a torn ACL. Adams I just can't see us affording or paying to get and his list of suiters will be limited imo to who can afford him...Allen Robinson was very underwhelming and about to enter those dreaded 30's in this next contract. Shuster is intriguing but I'm not sure about his attitude issues, and Gallup is also an option. Ballard seems to like big wrs so maybe a DJ Chark Jacksonville lets him walk...but that is more redundant to what we have in Pittman. So I don't think we will spend big at WR....so any money saved from Wentz probably wouldn't effect what we do at the wr corp. Not one of those guys intrigue me besides Adams. Trade for Ridley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Just now, btownqb said: Not one of those guys intrigue me besides Adams. Trade for Ridley. Is Ridley going to play football ever again?? You want to trade for a guy that quit on his team in the middle of the season? Surely not....I mean isn't that SOFT lol!! 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Chris Godwin very much intrigues me. Exactly the type of possession receiver that get's open and moves the chains. I also would be willing to do Schuster on a prove it deal...both those guys having injury concerns might be enough to discount them on a 1 plus 1 deal that might work out for us. Adams is just going to cost astronomical imo and not affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, dgambill said: Is Ridley going to play football ever again?? You want to trade for a guy that quit on his team in the middle of the season? Surely not....I mean isn't that SOFT lol!! 😉 I was assuming that would be taken care of before you made the trade. I was simply talking his talent. Though I'm not going to celebrate what Ridley did, I don't believe CR is soft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Just now, btownqb said: I was assuming that would be taken care of before you made the trade. I was simply talking his talent. Though I'm not going to celebrate what Ridley did, I don't believe CR is soft. All tongue and cheek. I have no clue what his issues are truly. Obviously it's mental health related and in my experiences in life....there is no cure for those issues...and they typically rear their ugly head again. I think Atlanta will be moving on from Matty Ice...but would look to keep their young receiving talent intact for a young qb to come in and throw to. Make that kids job as easy as possible. We see what it has done for guys like Murray and Burrow....but obviously talent like Ridley is what the Colts need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 I like Mike Williams as a WR free agent as well, but too much like Pittman, imo. People here have talked about signing Ertz as a TE upgrade. Dalton Schultz will be a free agent this year, is younger and I think just as skilled. I would go after him. If the Colts cut Wentz, they save $13 million this year. If TY and Doyle are gone, that's another $14 million saved. I'm sure they could be competitive bidding for an upgrade to the quarterback position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: I like Mike Williams as a WR free agent as well, but too much like Pittman, imo. People here have talked about signing Ertz as a TE upgrade. Dalton Schultz will be a free agent this year, is younger and I think just as skilled. I would go after him. If the Colts cut Wentz, they save $13 million this year. If TY and Doyle are gone, that's another $14 million saved. I'm sure they could be competitive bidding for an upgrade to the quarterback position. I agree on your first two points. Do the Chargers not have money for him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: I like Mike Williams as a WR free agent as well, but too much like Pittman, imo. People here have talked about signing Ertz as a TE upgrade. Dalton Schultz will be a free agent this year, is younger and I think just as skilled. I would go after him. If the Colts cut Wentz, they save $13 million this year. If TY and Doyle are gone, that's another $14 million saved. I'm sure they could be competitive bidding for an upgrade to the quarterback position. Williams has a lot of injury issues. Makes me really nervous. Boom or bust type of guy and yes very similar receiver to Pittman....doesn't get a lot of separation but makes contested catches. Not the type I would want us to target....but he is no doubt very talented. I am not really too worried about TE if we get better on the outside. Schultz I could be wrong but has major issues in run blocking...I know we can use other guys for that but I just don't like investing big money at TE unless it's for a dynamic difference maker ala Kittle/Kelce type of guy. Otherwise we've seen time and again late round and undrafted TEs be very effective in this league...and the cost over replacement level isn't much. I'm more interested in WRs on the outside that can create separation....have good hands...and are 3rd down specialist that move the chains. Let Pittman and one of our speedsters play over the top...we need guys that operate underneath imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, btownqb said: I agree on your first two points. Do the Chargers not have money for him? Chargers have TONS of money. He has had injury concerns over the years....I think they will bring him back maybe on a franchise tag....if he moves along it is purely because he hasn't been able to stay healthy over the years. Chargers will have big money to spend in free agency and likely will address their run defense imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) On 1/11/2022 at 5:46 PM, IU Scott said: Listening to JMV and the have Rick Venturi on there discussing the Colts. Venturi is the analyst on the Colts radio and it is surprising me how much he is going off on the team. He said that he feels it would be best to move on from Wentz. He said he was for the trade but after watching him he is not the guy for this team. He talked to a former GM after the trade and said Wentz is like a golfer that will shoot 65 on Thursday and Friday but shoots a 75 on the weekend. Now he is blasting Eberflus and thinks his scheme is way soft and the pass defense is unacceptable. We were 16th in defense and offense but the defense was 29th in the fourth quarter. We give up easy throws for the QB and the opponent QB completion percentage is a joke. We were 16th in yards given up, 9th in points given up, 2nd in TO caused. We struggled against the pass, generally. Very good against the run. Edited January 13, 2022 by btownqb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 31 minutes ago, FritzIam4IU said: The list they have is good…surely they can’t mess it up too bad. It is the Bears though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 43 minutes ago, dgambill said: The list they have is good…surely they can’t mess it up too bad. It is the Bears though. Yeah...never doubt that the McCaskeys can find a way to screw it up. On the flip side...even a blind squirrel will find a nut now and then. I have been reading quite a bit about the candidates, and I think my new #1 for GM is Dodd with Smith being second. I admit though, there are a few others who would be intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 15 hours ago, BGleas said: You're not going to get a stud WR without a QB in place though. Exactly. A good WR without a QB to get him the ball becomes average. Davante Adams is elite. But, would he be elite without Aaron Rodgers? He could be if his QB is Brady or Mahomes. But, with someone like Jared Goff or Sam Darnold? In that scenario, Davante has a big problem. On the flip side, however, Aaron Rodgers is going to be elite even without Davante Adams. You get the QB first and put WR around him. Not the other way around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 34 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Exactly. A good WR without a QB to get him the ball becomes average. Davante Adams is elite. But, would he be elite without Aaron Rodgers? He could be if his QB is Brady or Mahomes. But, with someone like Jared Goff or Sam Darnold? In that scenario, Davante has a big problem. On the flip side, however, Aaron Rodgers is going to be elite even without Davante Adams. You get the QB first and put WR around him. Not the other way around. Truthfully, Adams and Rodgers would be fools not to figure out how to both stay in GB. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: Exactly. A good WR without a QB to get him the ball becomes average. Davante Adams is elite. But, would he be elite without Aaron Rodgers? He could be if his QB is Brady or Mahomes. But, with someone like Jared Goff or Sam Darnold? In that scenario, Davante has a big problem. On the flip side, however, Aaron Rodgers is going to be elite even without Davante Adams. You get the QB first and put WR around him. Not the other way around. Maybe...or maybe not. Andre Johnson had a HOF career in Houston with Matt Schaub throwing him the ball. Some of Larry Fitzgerald's most productive years were with guys named John Skelton, Kevin Kolb and Ryan Lindley as quarterbacks. Neither of these guys had big problems excelling with below average quarterbacks. IMO, you get talent first, whenever and wherever available, and worry about the rest as you go along. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Maybe...or maybe not. Andre Johnson had a HOF career in Houston with Matt Schaub throwing him the ball. Some of Larry Fitzgerald's most productive years were with guys named John Skelton, Kevin Kolb and Ryan Lindley as quarterbacks. Neither of these guys had big problems excelling with below average quarterbacks. IMO, you get talent first, whenever and wherever available, and worry about the rest as you go along. Chris Carter comes to my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 FA just want guaranteed $$. If they are going somewhere on a prove it 1 year deal sure...they will choose a place that can help them maximize their numbers...but in the end if they lock up a long term deal for a ton of coin they don't care if it's Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, or Tom Brady...the Colts can bring in a WR with Wentz no problem...it just comes down to $$. There are plenty of targets to go around in this receiving corp. It isn't really in Ballards DNA to spend big in FA...much less at a skill position...so I expect him to target a young receiver that was under utilized or one coming off an injury in a prove it deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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