Around the B1G/NCAA

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Maybe saying college degrees are less valuable isn't the right way to phrase it. My point is that in 2019 it is easier than at any other point in the modern era to achieve success (defining success in this case as financial/career success) without a college degree. The internet has completely changed the landscape. 

It's not just a small segment or niche, there are people all over the world using the internet to make money, start businesses and build successful careers without college degrees. That wasn't possible 10, 15, 20, 30+ years ago. 

You can feel like that as much as you want but the numbers don’t back it up  for every successful “influencers” there’s 100 failed ones.  

 

[BGleas]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

You can feel like that as much as you want but the numbers don’t back it up  for every successful “influencers” there’s 100 failed ones.  

 

Did you even read my post? Who's talking about 'influencers'? The influencer game is a racket. It's just a fact that the internet has completely changed the landscape of what is possible and to who it's possible for. 

[thirdgenhoosier]

4 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Maybe saying college degrees are less valuable isn't the right way to phrase it. My point is that in 2019 it is easier than at any other point in the modern era to achieve success (defining success in this case as financial/career success) without a college degree. The internet has completely changed the landscape. 

It's not just a small segment or niche, there are people all over the world using the internet to make money, start businesses and build successful careers without college degrees. That wasn't possible 10, 15, 20, 30+ years ago. 

Of course it was possible 10-30 years ago.  Two people mentioned earlier in this discussion prove it has always been possible...Gates and Jobs.  Ted Turner, David Geffen,  and Michael Dell are three others.  The internet has certainly changed the tools but to say it wasn’t possible isn’t right.

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

Of course it was possible 10-30 years ago.  Two people mentioned earlier in this discussion prove it has always been possible...Gates and Jobs.  Ted Turner, David Geffen,  and Michael Dell are three others.  The internet has certainly changed the tools but to say it wasn’t possible isn’t right.

Again, maybe bad phrasing. The point of that line was not that it was impossible to make money 30 years ago without a degree, but that the internet has completely changed who those opportunities are available too and how many of those opportunities are available. You couldn't use the internet in 1985 to build a career for yourself. 

The intent of my post was that it is far easier in 2019. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Again, maybe bad phrasing. The point of that line was not that it was impossible to make money 30 years ago without a degree, but that the internet has completely changed who those opportunities are available too and how many of those opportunities are available. You couldn't use the internet in 1985 to build a career for yourself. 

The intent of my post was that it is far easier in 2019. 

No it’s not. You keep saying its easier but you are wrong the gap between college degree and non college degree is widening every year. 

Surviving without a college degree is not easy regardless of people getting lucky and overcoming it. 

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

No it’s not. You keep saying its easier but you are wrong the gap between college degree and non college degree is widening every year. 

Surviving without a college degree is not easy regardless of people getting lucky and overcoming it. 

There is a ton of detail in the wage gap discussion, too much to get into in this thread most likely. 

But again, there are infinitely more opportunities and ways for anyone, degree or not, to succeed in 2019 than there was 30 years ago. That doesn't guarantee anything and it isn't easy to succeed, of course. It's not easier for the checkout person at Walmart or the cashier making minimum wage at McDonald's. It's probably much harder as costs have risen faster than salaries. But while I thought I have been, maybe I haven't been clear, but that clearly is not the person I'm talking about. 

I'm talking about people that have a good idea of what they want to do, or have a skill/talent or product they can market, or have figured out how to utilize the internet, for those people deciding whether or not to take on the debt that college will lay on them, there are many more options in 2019 to forgo that debt and dive right into what they love to do and be successful at it. 

People are starting businesses all over the world using the internet that couldn't before. People without degrees but strong trades can now market themselves better and at lower costs than ever before. People in other countries have so many more options available to them. My company has been using a web development agency in India for the past 5 years, that wouldn't have been available to them or us 10-15 years ago. 

I think you're focusing too much on my use of the word 'easy'. It's never easy to succeed, make a living, etc. It takes incredibly hard work. I know first hand as I'm a partner in a start-up company. It's long hours, hard work, dedication and at times blind faith. But the available options to people, again degree or not, are far greater in 2019 than they were in 1975, 1985 or 1995, etc.

[Brass Cannon]

You are providing zero statistics to back up this claim. There are new ways to make money on the internet which is true but they are all very low success endeavors. And they have replaced but less risky quality opportunities. 

Which is why the wage gap is widening every year. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

There is a ton of detail in the wage gap discussion, too much to get into in this thread most likely. 

But again, there are infinitely more opportunities and ways for anyone, degree or not, to succeed in 2019 than there was 30 years ago. That doesn't guarantee anything and it isn't easy to succeed, of course. It's not easier for the checkout person at Walmart or the cashier making minimum wage at McDonald's. It's probably much harder as costs have risen faster than salaries. But while I thought I have been, maybe I haven't been clear, but that clearly is not the person I'm talking about. 

I'm talking about people that have a good idea of what they want to do, or have a skill/talent or product they can market, or have figured out how to utilize the internet, for those people deciding whether or not to take on the debt that college will lay on them, there are many more options in 2019 to forgo that debt and dive right into what they love to do and be successful at it. 

People are starting businesses all over the world using the internet that couldn't before. People without degrees but strong trades can now market themselves better and at lower costs than ever before. People in other countries have so many more options available to them. My company has been using a web development agency in India for the past 5 years, that wouldn't have been available to them or us 10-15 years ago. 

I think you're focusing too much on my use of the word 'easy'. It's never easy to succeed, make a living, etc. It takes incredibly hard work. I know first hand as I'm a partner in a start-up company. It's long hours, hard work, dedication and at times blind faith. But the available options to people, again degree or not, are far greater in 2019 than they were in 1975, 1985 or 1995, etc.

This is probably getting too far away from the original discussion. Should pro sports agents have a college degree in order to be certified by the players' union? I think undoubtedly yes given the value and intricacy of pro contracts and I would argue a law degree is most appropriate. The rare super agent who doesn't need a college degree is not enough to justify the risk of players being screwed over by incompetent representation from their family friend.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This is probably getting too far away from the original discussion. Should pro sports agents have a college degree in order to be certified by the players' union? I think undoubtedly yes given the value and intricacy of pro contracts and I would argue a law degree is most appropriate. The rare super agent who doesn't need a college degree is not enough to justify the risk of players being screwed over by incompetent representation from their family friend.

Agree. I also think that LeBron has sort of hi-jacked the conversation with the Rich Paul stuff. While I'm not trying to give the NCAA credit, I think this rule is much more about people like Christian Dawkins than it is about Rich Paul. 

[Reacher]

I'm of the belief that 50% of college degrees are worthless. Yes, it depends on the college that is just a generalization. Couple that with the rising tuition and high debt loads, more and more are deciding to forego and or delay school. I have my own anecdotal evidence but I'll add this recent TD Ameritrade study-

https://s2.q4cdn.com/437609071/files/doc_news/research/2019/young-americans-and-college-survey.pdf

I've seen a number of others alluding to the same thing. Employers are also more desparate to hire quality employees. I saw where some are recruiting in jails. Degrees are still necessary in many areas but a certification (for computers as an example) will carry more weight than a degree for an employer looking for that skill.

 

[IU Scott]

https://cashmoneylife.com/do-you-need-college-degree/

Found this article about the discussion you guys have been having about whether a college degree is really needed to be successful.

I had a cousin who graduated HS in the late 70's and had some offers to play basketball in college but did not go and got married.  He started a career in the heating and cooling business doing installs and then repairs.  He worked from the ground up and eventually led him to be part owner of Godby heating and cooling and then to having his own company.  Until he was diagnosed with cancer he was living in a $600,000 home but had to get rid because of the doctor bills mounted until his death..  I have a college degree and did not even come close to what he made and have a few more relatives that I could say the same about.

[IowaHoosierFan]

45 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I'm of the belief that 50% of college degrees are worthless. Yes, it depends on the college that is just a generalization. Couple that with the rising tuition and high debt loads, more and more are deciding to forego and or delay school. I have my own anecdotal evidence but I'll add this recent TD Ameritrade study-

https://s2.q4cdn.com/437609071/files/doc_news/research/2019/young-americans-and-college-survey.pdf

I've seen a number of others alluding to the same thing. Employers are also more desparate to hire quality employees. I saw where some are recruiting in jails. Degrees are still necessary in many areas but a certification (for computers as an example) will carry more weight than a degree for an employer looking for that skill.

 

I have worked in IT for about 20 years.  Your're grouping all IT into a bucked when certs mean more than degrees and this isn't true.  What you're saying does have some merit when talking about Service Desk employees and even parts of Infrastructure such as Networking and to some degree Server Management.  But for the other 80% of IT professionals who are programmers, analysts, and administrators, the minimum standard is a bachelors degree with 3-5 years experience.  Not to say that some aren't hired with experience over education, that absolutely happens but for the most part in corporate america, your IT department all have some degree in Math, Computer Science, and MIS. 

I can't say this is the same for all areas of all corporations but almost everyone one of the people who are Office workers in my company have a college degree.

But higher education is not for everyone and not everyone should go to college for a 4 year degree.  There are plenty of Trade certs that can lead to a very high yearly income.  I do believe that you either need to be certified in a trade or have a useful college education to have a higher chance of being successful later on in life.  That's not to say everyone needs too and i am sure there are plenty of examples of those who do without higher education, but i think they are the exception and not the rule.

Plus no education is ever worthless.  Being educated helps make better decisions in life.  Its not just about getting a job.

Just my narrow view of the corporate world.  I am sure i can be proven wrong. 

 

[BGleas]

23 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I have worked in IT for about 20 years.  Your're grouping all IT into a bucked when certs mean more than degrees and this isn't true.  What you're saying does have some merit when talking about Service Desk employees and even parts of Infrastructure such as Networking and to some degree Server Management.  But for the other 80% of IT professionals who are programmers, analysts, and administrators, the minimum standard is a bachelors degree with 3-5 years experience.  Not to say that some aren't hired with experience over education, that absolutely happens but for the most part in corporate america, your IT department all have some degree in Math, Computer Science, and MIS. 

I can't say this is the same for all areas of all corporations but almost everyone one of the people who are Office workers in my company have a college degree.

But higher education is not for everyone and not everyone should go to college for a 4 year degree.  There are plenty of Trade certs that can lead to a very high yearly income.  I do believe that you either need to be certified in a trade or have a useful college education to have a higher chance of being successful later on in life.  That's not to say everyone needs too and i am sure there are plenty of examples of those who do without higher education, but i think they are the exception and not the rule.

Just my narrow view of the corporate world.  I am sure i can be proven wrong

That was well said!

My point is this entire discussion is NOT that it's easier in 2019 for the person making minimum wage stocking shelves or trying to make ends meet working at a fast food place. It's actually way, way harder, and again that wasn't the person I was ever describing. I've probably done a poor job explaining myself in this discussion.  

But to your point, college degrees are still incredibly important in many industries, and if you're going to work on the business side at a company, whether it be IT, marketing, finance, HR, etc. Those jobs, and upward mobility at those company's, still largely require degrees. 

But, for the person that has a certification, but not a 4-year degree, the options have opened up tremendously with the evolution of the internet. Or for the kid deciding whether they want to take on the debt of college in the current climate, their options to succeed without a degree are far greater than what they were before the eCommerce/digital boom the last 10+ years.

That IT person with a certificate, but no degree, can get a service desk job at a larger company, but they also now have the option to throw their resume up on a freelancing website, set their own rate, and service clients all over the world working out of their house, and make a nice, potentially better if things fall right, living doing it. They could ultimately even start their own business/agency if they work hard enough and are talented, where 15-20 years ago they'd most likely remain as a service desk employee at a larger company for the long haul or be forced to go get a degree to move up if that was their goal. 

 

[FKIM01]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

In the age of the internet and global economy degrees are way less valuable than they used to be. A college degree used to be a point of entry simply to get a good job, now with eCommerce, digital advertising and social media, if you can figure out the internet you don't really need a college degree. 

Last month I had a kid (probably about 20) reach out and pitch me a system he developed for marketing via Facebook Messenger bots, and he's probably making more money than I am. 

I'd agree.  I have a degree and two post-degree designations and looking back, I realize that 90% of what they did is open the door of opportunity.  I could have crammed all the useful stuff I learned in college into a semester or two at most and I'm seriously considering dumping both of my "professional designations" as I mostly see them as a way for the governing bodies to extract money from me annually. 

Without question, a degree can be very valuable for the right person in the right field, but a 4-year degree in most cases is being over-valued, and student debt getting out of hand is opening a lot of eyes to alternative routes to adulthood.

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I'd agree.  I have a degree and two post-degree designations and looking back, I realize that 90% of what they did is open the door of opportunity.  I could have crammed all the useful stuff I learned in college into a semester or two at most and I'm seriously considering dumping both of my "professional designations" as I mostly see them as a way for the governing bodies to extract money from me annually. 

Without question, a degree can be very valuable for the right person in the right field, but a 4-year degree in most cases is being over-valued, and student debt getting out of hand is opening a lot of eyes to alternative routes to adulthood.

I think you're last point especially is spot on. To the person who is driven to succeed, those alternative options are greater in 2019 than they've ever been in the modern era. There are infinitely more ways to figure out how to succeed in 2019. That doesn't mean it's guaranteed or it's easy, but the options are there for the people driven to pursue them, if college isn't their thing for whatever reason. 

[Steubenhoosier]

Getting back to the NCAA's new mandate.

If someone can pass the necessary exam without a college degree, that in and of itself shows that the degree is not a requirement to be an agent.

Rich Paul is living proof that one does not need to be a lawyer to navigate the world of athlete contracts. 

The rule was put in place by the NCAA at the urging of the established agents and agencies who are threatened that Paul might be the example to lead others to take a similar route. The decision smacks of elitism and cronyism, imo.

[Seeking6]

5 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I have a co-worker whose son is now my client. Kid is 24 and making well into the 6 figures installing security/audio/video systems in high end homes. Did work for Irsay a few years back when he was building a new place. Did this part-time while in school and was becoming so busy/successful that he quit school and hasn't looked back.

In regards to the NCAA ruling. Again, people do have to pass an exam to be able to hang their shingle, so there are standards. Just disagree that a degree should be required.

All day long. My buddy has a couple bars here in Indy. His audio/tv/sound guy was charging $75/hr and implied it was a good deal. No degree just self taught. This same guy also did the audio/visual/tv stuff for my wife's firm. 4 floors worth....took months to do. Can't imagine what some of those guys are banking.

[Seeking6]

5 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

Anecdotal evidence is unreliable at best. 

Just because you can overcome the inherent disadvantages of no college degree doesn’t make it likely. Just like a college degree doesn’t guarantee it. Just makes it a lot easier. 

Agree all day as well....but to my original point. More and more people are finding ways to earn instead of college is all I'm saying. Still a very small % but growing every single year...and big gains at that.

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Agree all day as well....but to my original point. More and more people are finding ways to earn instead of college is all I'm saying. Still a very small % but growing every single year...and big gains at that.

They are finding new ways sure but old ways of making money without one are dying out. 

[milehiiu]

This discussion of college vs non college.  No doubt, all kinds of ways to earn income in this great country of ours.  However I have got to say.  My college education provided me with knowledge I would never have gotten, had I not gone to IU.  Just one example.  My Senior year.  Second semester. I needed just one business course to get by BS in Business Management. So I enrolled in non business courses.  And two profs called me in to their offices. Asking me why I enrolled in their class.  When I told them the facts, and that I wanted to expand my knowledge. They both were impressed. To this day. My love of impressionist art is still alive and vital within me. Something I would most likely not have. Had I not expanded my knowledge base in college. Now.  I know others can study. Outside of college.  But I ask.  How many are willing to do it ? 

[Seeking6]

16 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

This discussion of college vs non college.  No doubt, all kinds of ways to earn income in this great country of ours.  However I have got to say.  My college education provided me with knowledge I would never have gotten, had I not gone to IU.  Just one example.  My Senior year.  Second semester. I needed just one business course to get by BS in Business Management. So I enrolled in non business courses.  And two profs called me in to their offices. Asking me why I enrolled in their class.  When I told them the facts, and that I wanted to expand my knowledge. They both were impressed. To this day. My love of impressionist art is still alive and vital within me. Something I would most likely not have. Had I not expanded my knowledge base in college. Now.  I know others can study. Outside of college.  But I ask.  How many are willing to do it ? 

Very proud of my 2 IU degrees and no doubt helped me get into doors I otherwise wouldn't have gotten in. To answer your question about studying outside of college. I study daily. Market trends in my business, ways to deliver my service using the old acronym of FACE. US Consumers want their goods and services Fast Accurate Cheap Easy...if you can do that you have a business. 

But it requires constant studying and most of that recently I'll admit is getting advice from my 21 year old nephews on tools and how to use certain social media platforms...how to use it better, get biggest bang and most views for my advertising audience/budget,etc....I'll take care of the rest when I speak with them but getting them to the call is difficult.  

 

[milehiiu]

10 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Very proud of my 2 IU degrees and no doubt helped me get into doors I otherwise wouldn't have gotten in. To answer your question about studying outside of college. I study daily. Market trends in my business, ways to deliver my service using the old acronym of FACE. US Consumers want their goods and services Fast Accurate Cheap Easy...if you can do that you have a business. 

But it requires constant studying and most of that recently I'll admit is getting advice from my 21 year old nephews on tools and how to use certain social media platforms...how to use it better, get biggest bang and most views for my advertising audience/budget,etc....I'll take care of the rest when I speak with them but getting them to the call is difficult.  

 

I applaud you for your continued broadening of  yout mind. Especially in your field of work I wonder, though.  How many go outside of their particular field to study ?   Too busy making a living to study.... say religions, art, science, etc, etc.

Love ya 6.  Thanks for your input.  At least you are out there broadening your knowledge base. 

 

[Seeking6]

12 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I applaud you for your continued broadening of  yout mind. Especially in your field of work I wonder, though.  How many go outside of their particular field to study ?   Too busy making a living to study.... say religions, art, science, etc, etc.

Love ya 6.  Thanks for your input.  At least you are out there broadening your knowledge base. 

 

I think you bring up a very good point. What I study is self serving. I do try to watch (and sometimes read) documentaries to broaden the mind but to answer your question....very few learn for the sake of learning anymore. I did however teach myself (youtube) how to put the plastic strip stuff back in the weed whacker today. In my world that's a major victory. 

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

I think you bring up a very good point. What I study is self serving. I do try to watch (and sometimes read) documentaries to broaden the mind but to answer your question....very few learn for the sake of learning anymore. I did however teach myself (youtube) how to put the plastic strip stuff back in the week whacker today. In my world that's a major victory. 

Haha, I was just watching a YouTube video on how to fix the sliding glass doors that came off the track in a shower. YouTube is awesome for that stuff!

[milehiiu]

1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

I think you bring up a very good point. What I study is self serving. I do try to watch (and sometimes read) documentaries to broaden the mind but to answer your question....very few learn for the sake of learning anymore. I did however teach myself (youtube) how to put the plastic strip stuff back in the week whacker today. In my world that's a major victory. 

The truth is. You Tube IS a valuable resource center.  Who would have thunk it ?