Around the B1G/NCAA

[IUFLA]

I think we're forgetting or overlooking that A) Sampson had the NCAA on his tail when he left Oklahoma. He wasn't a first time offender. And while I do believe what he got pinched for was maybe trivial, it was a rule and it was broken, and B) Dakich kicked kids off for not going to class and other things contrary to IU player standards. Sampson was changing the IU basketball culture. I didn't care for that.

Good riddance...

[BGleas]

1 hour ago, TheWatShot said:

The NCAA gave us 3 years probation, nothing more. This is probably the biggest fallacy on IU boards. We nuked our own program because we were afraid of Myles Brand. It was almost like the NCAA looked at what we had done and thought "Wow, ok. We'll just keep an eye on you for awhile."

Exactly. People always seems to misunderstand what actually happened. The NCAA hardly did anything to us. What brought the program to its knees was that Sampson didn't care at all about the character of the players he brought in and basically disregarded academics and the drug policy. Then Dakich and Crean came in and basically kicked everyone off the team. 

If Sampson had a team of talented guys that were high character guys that got good grades and didn't get in trouble, Crean could have come in and not skipped a beat. It would have allowed Crean to do what Archie did, keep the team and recruiting class in tact, but an even more talented group. Not defending Crean's coaching, just the transition would have been completely different had Sampson just had quality guys, it really had very little to do with the NCAA.

[KoB2011]

6 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Watched the beginning of the 2nd half and notice KS all learned back blue sweaty shirt with hands behind his head. I was thinking man this team does not listen so he is just gonna let them fail doing it their way. Then upon closer look he was actually covering 1 ear with 1 hand and the other holding a cell phone. Man is a go getter always on the recruiting trail. Or maybe just ordering some pizza!!! I kid I kid. Did not miss seeing him or the product he produces 

I loved the product. The team he had in 08 was the best teams we've had in 25 years. 

[Billingsley99]

22 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I loved the product. The team he had in 08 was the best teams we've had in 25 years. 

If the product includes guys not going to class smoking weed non stop getting arrested then you can have it. I will lose with dignity and class 

[KoB2011]

12 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

If the product includes guys not going to class smoking weed non stop getting arrested then you can have it. I will lose with dignity and class 

You were VERY clearly talking about him coaching a basketball game. If we are going to start discrediting coaching ability because of personality then go ahead and take down the banners from Bob Knight. 

[Billingsley99]

15 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

You were VERY clearly talking about him coaching a basketball game. If we are going to start discrediting coaching ability because of personality then go ahead and take down the banners from Bob Knight. 

No I am CLEARLY talking about the product.  A team on the floor with a multitude of flunking grades and a serious drug problem I was not in the least bit proud of our team that represented our University. 

Ask Luke Zeller what his impressions of the team was. KS is a heck of a coach but if that is what it takes to be successful count me out

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, IUFLA said:

It was a good read and, I think, very true. If you stick around after your freshman year at pUKe, Calipari almost has to do what Jay Wright would not do with Quinerly...Play him so the message gets to other 5 stars that you come to pUKe, you play, then go to the league. If not, you get recruited over to maintain the cycle, because the stars aren't coming if a sophomore or junior are in their way.

To that I say, look at what Jay Wright has done with the talent he gets, as opposed to Calipari. Really quite clear.

Living down here there is a big divide. Most of the older fans are turning on Cal. If he was winning NCs with the way he was doing things they could over look a lot...but since he isn't a lot aren't too happy. The younger Instagram crowd are fine...they love flash in the pan...kids going pro...highlight reels...winning most of the games but a championship...ahh it's more who is coming in next and have lost focus on their current team before the season even ends. The older fans are upset....they don't even get to know the kids...they are here for 4 or 5 months and gone...there is no loyalty and you don't care about them because you don't feel vested with them...you don't watch them grow and root to see them win a championship before they graduate. The OAD thing worked at first...and kept both crowds happy because it quickly turned them around and brought them back to relevance....but now the issues are showing. The thing is there might be 25 5* kids...but only say 4 or 5 really really special kids. Ones that can come in right away and dominate the college basketball game. UK was getting like 3 or 4 of the 5 at first....now they might be getting 1 or none.....they might still be getting a couple top 10 and 4 or 5 top 25 but that won't cut it to win it all. So they still leave for all the reasons you have said but never were impactful enough to really contend for a NC. It takes an Anthony Davis, John Wall, Boogie Cousins, Karl Anthony Towns etc to really have a freshman impact a season on that kind of NC level. UK is no longer getting multiple of those in any given season. Duke has it this year but even they don't get it every year either. The field is catching up in the recruiting game....and thus that puts a focus on Cals coaching ability to widen the gap again...but we all know that isn't going to happen. He is a good coach but not great. College basketball talent has leveled out somewhat...and thus UK has come back to the pack. What used to work won't anymore....well at least not often with Duke and others getting those elite recruits now. Thus it is up to Cal's coaching to get him where he wants to go....and I don't see that. This UK/Cal thing I think has about 3-4 more years left until he burns out....because its one thing to start over every year if your in the final 4/NC game...but when you are just finishing with S16s...he will have to put up with too much flack. His success is playing against himself too because those that should be staying another year are still going pro even without being a 1st rd pick. Time for a new bag for Cal.

 

Yet I say all that and I still think Cal has final 4 talent on his roster this year with the bigs he got back and who he has playing for him. They should be better than what they are. I think Cal is growing weary of the monster he has created. Once his son is gone...the clock starts on him.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

I loved the product. The team he had in 08 was the best teams we've had in 25 years. 

The 08 team was my least favorite team at IU of all time and I felt sometimes I needed to take a bath after watching that team.  I liked Gordon and white but most of the other players I did not care for.

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Living down here there is a big divide. Most of the older fans are turning on Cal. If he was winning NCs with the way he was doing things they could over look a lot...but since he isn't a lot aren't too happy. The younger Instagram crowd are fine...they love flash in the pan...kids going pro...highlight reels...winning most of the games but a championship...ahh it's more who is coming in next and have lost focus on their current team before the season even ends. The older fans are upset....they don't even get to know the kids...they are here for 4 or 5 months and gone...there is no loyalty and you don't care about them because you don't feel vested with them...you don't watch them grow and root to see them win a championship before they graduate. The OAD thing worked at first...and kept both crowds happy because it quickly turned them around and brought them back to relevance....but now the issues are showing. The thing is there might be 25 5* kids...but only say 4 or 5 really really special kids. Ones that can come in right away and dominate the college basketball game. UK was getting like 3 or 4 of the 5 at first....now they might be getting 1 or none.....they might still be getting a couple top 10 and 4 or 5 top 25 but that won't cut it to win it all. So they still leave for all the reasons you have said but never were impactful enough to really contend for a NC. It takes an Anthony Davis, John Wall, Boogie Cousins, Karl Anthony Towns etc to really have a freshman impact a season on that kind of NC level. UK is no longer getting multiple of those in any given season. Duke has it this year but even they don't get it every year either. The field is catching up in the recruiting game....and thus that puts a focus on Cals coaching ability to widen the gap again...but we all know that isn't going to happen. He is a good coach but not great. College basketball talent has leveled out somewhat...and thus UK has come back to the pack. What used to work won't anymore....well at least not often with Duke and others getting those elite recruits now. Thus it is up to Cal's coaching to get him where he wants to go....and I don't see that. This UK/Cal thing I think has about 3-4 more years left until he burns out....because its one thing to start over every year if your in the final 4/NC game...but when you are just finishing with S16s...he will have to put up with too much flack. His success is playing against himself too because those that should be staying another year are still going pro even without being a 1st rd pick. Time for a new bag for Cal.

 

Yet I say all that and I still think Cal has final 4 talent on his roster this year with the bigs he got back and who he has playing for him. They should be better than what they are. I think Cal is growing weary of the monster he has created. Once his son is gone...the clock starts on him.

Interesting stuff. I wish I could find more people down here in Texas to talk hoops with, but they're few and far between. When I wear my IU gear out, I always get one Texan that says, "Hey Okie" because I guess distinguishing between an "I" and an "O" is difficult for some people. 

When they finally chuck OAD, it'll be interesting to see which coaches prosper, and which fail. I'll take my chances with the guy we've got.

[dgambill]

25 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Interesting stuff. I wish I could find more people down here in Texas to talk hoops with, but they're few and far between. When I wear my IU gear out, I always get one Texan that says, "Hey Okie" because I guess distinguishing between an "I" and an "O" is difficult for some people. 

When they finally chuck OAD, it'll be interesting to see which coaches prosper, and which fail. I'll take my chances with the guy we've got.

Well I would much rather deal with Texans that can't read lol then Kentuckians that marry their cousins (although that is the other side of the state). Anyways being forced to listen to UK people talk basketball is so painful. They may have successful teams but I promise you only maybe 1 in 10 have ever played the game and of those 1 in 10 even know what they are talking about. At least in Indiana if I have a conversation about basketball at least half have played the sport and have some fundamental understanding of the game. Heck even my mom played 6 vs 6 basketball back in the day and she still understands the current rules and can tell you what is going on and why a team is winning or losing a game. Yet down here everyone thinks they know it all and entitled to their team being in the final four every year. smh

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Interesting stuff. I wish I could find more people down here in Texas to talk hoops with, but they're few and far between. When I wear my IU gear out, I always get one Texan that says, "Hey Okie" because I guess distinguishing between an "I" and an "O" is difficult for some people. 

When they finally chuck OAD, it'll be interesting to see which coaches prosper, and which fail. I'll take my chances with the guy we've got.

Yeah, I'm in the Houston area

[rico]

59 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yeah, I'm in the Houston area

I like "Cougars"...something about those older ladies!!!!!!!

[Drroogh]

3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Interesting stuff. I wish I could find more people down here in Texas to talk hoops with, but they're few and far between. When I wear my IU gear out, I always get one Texan that says, "Hey Okie" because I guess distinguishing between an "I" and an "O" is difficult for some people. 

When they finally chuck OAD, it'll be interesting to see which coaches prosper, and which fail. I'll take my chances with the guy we've got.

I feel for you, but living in rural Georgia maybe worse, where people leave out half the letters in every word they speak and ONLY talk about SEC Football and NASCAR when it comes to sports. A good friend and my boss is an Auburn grad, who if I pointed out that their basketball team was in the top 10 would say who cares and quickly change the subject to how long Malzan will be their coach?

 

I agree with you about CAM being a good coach in the post OAD era!

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

Only game of interest is Wisconsin tonight and they are a 36 point favorite. 

[Drroogh]

1 minute ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Only game of interest is Wisconsin tonight and they are a 36 point favorite. 

I know, right?

[5fouls]

8 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Only game of interest is Wisconsin tonight and they are a 36 point favorite. 

A few years ago Wisconsin as a 35 point favorite meant they would have to hold the opponent scoreless.  

[IUFLA]

34 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

I feel for you, but living in rural Georgia maybe worse, where people leave out half the letters in every word they speak and ONLY talk about SEC Football and NASCAR when it comes to sports. A good friend and my boss is an Auburn grad, who if I pointed out that their basketball team was in the top 10 would say who cares and quickly change the subject to how long Malzan will be their coach?

 

I agree with you about CAM being a good coach in the post OAD era!

I guess it's a southern thing. I had friends from Georgia when I was in the military. Football was all they talked about. The one good thing I got out of it was to listen to Larry Munson.

Don Fischer is a homer. Johnny Most was a homer. Hawk Harrellson was a homer...but Larry Munson was a HOMER. 

Any one who's never had the pleasure, I submit this...Larry Munson

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yeah, I'm in the Houston area

Me too...Well, 25 miles Northeast

[Drroogh]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I guess it's a southern thing. I had friends from Georgia when I was in the military. Football was all they talked about. The one good thing I got out of it was to listen to Larry Munson.

Don Fischer is a homer. Johnny Most wast a homer. Hawk Harrellson was a homer...but Larry Munson was a HOMER. 

Any one who's never had the pleasure, I submit this...Larry Munson

Go Dawgs!

[milehiiu]

44 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

I feel for you, but living in rural Georgia maybe worse, where people leave out half the letters in every word they speak and ONLY talk about SEC Football and NASCAR when it comes to sports. A good friend and my boss is an Auburn grad, who if I pointed out that their basketball team was in the top 10 would say who cares and quickly change the subject to how long Malzan will be their coach?

 

I agree with you about CAM being a good coach in the post OAD era!

I hear ya.  I did my Army OCS at Fort Benning.  One of the many things, I remember aside from football was to watch out  for the Copperheads, when and if we ever  fell into the Chattahoochee, during training.

[Drroogh]

9 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I hear ya.  I did my Army OCS at Fort Benning.  One of the many things, I remember aside from football was to watch out  for the Copperheads, when and if we ever  fell into the Chattahoochee, during training.

Hah! I used to work a civilian job driving all over Ft Benning! I'm told it's not the same place even since I worked there, lot's of changes! Remember the trees with the special ID's warning of the protected Red Cockaded Woodpeckers!

[KoB2011]

5 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

No I am CLEARLY talking about the product.  A team on the floor with a multitude of flunking grades and a serious drug problem I was not in the least bit proud of our team that represented our University. 

Ask Luke Zeller what his impressions of the team was. KS is a heck of a coach but if that is what it takes to be successful count me out

The product is the basketball team. I think Salesforce builds a hell of a product, I don't much care for their CEO. It's two separate things. 

[IUFLA]

7 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

Hah! I used Remember the trees with the special ID's warning of the protected Red Cockaded Woodpeckers!

LMAO. When I was stationed in the Florida panhandle, they had a mission that would send an F-4 taking pictures of every square foot of land the base owned (and it was a lot of land) to make sure we weren't bothering those blasted red headed woodpeckers. We always called the F-4 "the pecker checker."

When they built the base a new control tower, they had to add 30 feet to the height so the controllers could see over one of their sacred breeding grounds...

[Drroogh]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

YeahLMAO. When I was stationed in the Florida panhandle, they had a mission that would send an F-4 taking pictures of every square foot of land the base owned (and it was a lot of land) to make sure we weren't bothering those blasted red headed woodpeckers. We always called the F-4 "the pecker checker."

When they built the base a new control tower, they had to add 30 feet to the height so the controllers could see over one of their sacred breeding grounds...

Yeah Benning also had to protect the tortoises, hard to imagine they could actually do live fire  and war games, but I can remember Apache helicopters tracking me and Bradly's and Abram's blocking me from doing my daily rounds! 

[milehiiu]

3 hours ago, Drroogh said:

Hah! I used to work a civilian job driving all over Ft Benning! I'm told it's not the same place even since I worked there, lot's of changes! Remember the trees with the special ID's warning of the protected Red Cockaded Woodpeckers!

One of the most beautiful places in the country..... the entrance to Ft. Benning.