The H🔥T Seat

[A-hOhL]

We never should have fired Sampson. Great basketball mind. Sure we would have a few recruiting infractions and torpedo smokers from time to time but we would win. Instead, we destroy our own program via overreaction and look at us now. 

[CincyHoosier]

12 minutes ago, A-hOhL said:

We never should have fired Sampson. Great basketball mind. Sure we would have a few recruiting infractions and torpedo smokers from time to time but we would win. Instead, we destroy our own program via overreaction and look at us now. 

Agree.  Say what you want about Sampson but the dude can coach.  We would have, at minimum, been competing for Big 10 championships and making runs to the second or third weekend of the tourney with regularity under Sampson.  

[Danomatic]

6 minutes ago, A-hOhL said:

We never should have fired Sampson. Great basketball mind. Sure we would have a few recruiting infractions and torpedo smokers from time to time but we would win. Instead, we destroy our own program via overreaction and look at us now. 

Hey, at this point, I’d welcome Sampson back with open arms. However, I doubt that he’d care much for that reunion. 
 

Speaking of which... an older gentleman that I was working with at that time said that IU handled that situation about as poorly as you could possibly handle it. I didn’t agree at first, but now I see why he said what he said. 
 

Why would any coach want to come to a university that doesn’t have their back? I think now, looking back, we would’ve likely got a slap on the wrist in comparison to our self imposed sanctions. It was perfectly legal that next year, after all. 
 

The older gent said “you guys nailed the Sampson hire, but you’ll pay for the way his dismissal was handled...” 

[macomb hoosier]

1 hour ago, Danomatic said:

I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned John Beilien yet... 

Would you really want to rebuild with a 67 year old coach?

[HoosierDom]

47 minutes ago, BenZIU said:

Did the real story of what happened last year during the collapse ever come out. I remember all the rumors of girl issues but never anything solid. If Green was the cause last year and Archie has let him take  this team down again, that is a big black mark and I’m not sure if I have any faith that Archie is gonna get the ship righted.

I have no info beyond what I've read online, but I've never read anything about Green being the source of the girl issues. Everything I have read suggested Green handled that just the way a captain should. Of course, everything I have read is unsourced and highly suspect.

[HoosierDom]

I think it would be foolish, and a little unfair (though not a lot unfair), to can Archie after this year, unless we have the homerun lined up. To my mind Stevens first and Donovan second would be guys we would have to move on if possible. I don't think either is likely, but I don't see Stevens' teams getting better anytime soon. Seems like the best he can hope for is a decade of good teams that are clearly inferior to Milwaukee and probably a step behind Philadelphia. Seems like that could give us an opening. 

I don't like the idea of just firing Archie and figuring it out later. I don't think we're there. He should get the chance to have his guys as upperclassmen before we go that route. 

[Leathernecks]

57 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

If that is true, then why has that player not been dealt with by the coaching staff?  It is either Davis or Green if he knows they are going to be gone next year.  So why do they continue to play?

I get tired of excuses like this.  Cancers should be dealt with by the coaching staff.  And if it is Green, they allowed him to be a freaking captain and continue to reward him with play.  For 3 years Miller allowed it.  You're the f-ing coach, do your job man.

That is not directed at you 0708...just frustrated.

If it is Green, the point you mentioned is a huge red flag to me.  When Archie decided to put team captains to a vote, there were really only 2 options, and neither one looks good.

1. Archie knew the team would vote Green a captain, and he thought it was a good idea.  I'm all for doing that with someone who needs that extra push.  It has been obvious Green isn't that guy.  2 minutes of watching games, and you can tell Green and Archie aren't on the same wavelength.  If you think your team is going to vote someone like that a captain, you don't let them vote on it.  Either no captains, or the coaching staff picks them.  You can't under any circumstances let a guy like that become a captain.  You just open the door to have your team torn apart.
2. Archie didn't know the team would vote Green a captain.  With such a small roster, you have to know what your team thinks.  I'm a high school golf coach, and I could probably tell you exactly who all 18 kids would vote for if I let them vote for a captain.  If Archie didn't think Green would get voted captain by the team, that worries me even more that he has that little knowledge of the guys on his team.

[Bedford1432]

1 hour ago, CTrojan88 said:

So, Archie is just here for the money and doesn’t mind looking like a fool?  I don’t buy it.  If true and Archie had any self pride, he would simply walk away and get another job.    

Agreed. You pay someone 3.6 million and then tell them what to do. I dont buy that at all 

[bobtcat2]

3 hours ago, ButlerHoosier said:

I have said it before but I think Archie is hamstrung and not being allowed to be the coach he wants to be. 

Don't even understand how this would theoretically be possible.  I can't imagine the administration is providing input on who plays, what kind of sets they run, etc.

[ButlerHoosier]

39 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

I’m not a big fan of this thread, but this has been said off and on over the past 2 1/2 seasons. And like others, I’d like to know specifically what this means, understanding you’re merely passing along what you believe to be true. 

I honestly wish I could tell you. I only have my guesses from my mile high view point. I think it first was the APR which meant that Archie had to keep players he wanted to let walk. Then cause Archie had to keep those players he had to cater to keeping them and not do anything to rock the boat too much and let them walk away. Which I think the AD is still doing to Archie right now forcing Archie to cater to the players instead of allowing him to run his program the way he wants to. Couple that with the bare cupboard that Crean left us when he started not caring about recruiting and academics meant a perfect storm for Archie. All of these circumstances means no accountability poor leadership and a bad culture aka handcuffing Archie. I understand everyone thinks I am making an excuse. First I am not an Archie fan when he was hired. I thought we could pull someone else. After hearing other peoples thoughts I think we were turned down by other coaches cause our AD office is one of the most difficult to work with which runs coaches off. I am definitely not happy about everything but hearing that there is still major locker room chemistry issues from leadership on down and that leadership isn't acting like a leader leads to poor play on the players not the coaches part. There is only so much Archie can do. I just can't buy the idea that Archie has changed into a very poor and weak coach that loses his teams because he has come to a Power 5 conference and without a cause. A zebra just doesn't change its stripes. A basketball player and coach just doesn't change his core morals and DNA. Look at Archies career. Look at Dayton. Look at the type of player Archie was and the type of players he recruited. Look at the type of play that was established there. Yes subpar 3 point defense and offense. But even though that was a flaw they still became ranked and were starting to make deeper runs in tournament and with subpar talent against better teams and sometimes not even a player over 6'6".  Not a fluke. While he was an assistant for his brother he was an expert recruiter that brought in a top 10 class and a good game tactician. At Dayton he was in the running for national coach of the year one year. How can all of that as a coach be reduced to this poor play and poor coaching? So everyone thinks a former runner in the national coach of the year is now exposed cause he is in a better league? His teams out toughed other teams with lesser talent and a better game plan. That is the only way they won. He instilled that in his teams and demanded that from his players. Now he can't do that with his teams here. I really do wonder why cause this seems way out of character. Once again I think there are outside forces that have lead to a bad culture and Archie is stuck babysitting this mess instead of allowing to be a coach. One example that my conspiracy theory mind is going on about...remember Mr. Smith last year speaking so poorly about Archie and how he is mistreating and misusing his son? Well look who is playing the 3 this year even though everyone knows he should be playing the 4. He is a college 4 that can't space the floor very well. He reminds me of Brandon Dawson from MSU. Yet he is playing the 3 this year. I personally don't think there is a coincidence there. I know this isn't a very popular opinion and most likely will be roasted for my opinion but I honestly think there is even more to the story than what I can surmise. I honestly think he gets next year. I would be very surprised to see how this team performs next year. Sorry about the novel.

[bobtcat2]

3 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Everyone says not realistic.  I say ask his price and see what he says.  If he says I don't think so, you offer to double his current salary with Boston and then see what he says.

Can't see how they'd be able to pay him 7 million a year.

[TheWatShot]

If we're being perfectly honest, I think his success at Dayton was overblown. He went to an Elite 8 once? Cool. Our last 3 coaches all coached in Final Fours; how did they work out for us? 

[BADGERVOL]

52 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

If it is Green, the point you mentioned is a huge red flag to me.  When Archie decided to put team captains to a vote, there were really only 2 options, and neither one looks good.

1. Archie knew the team would vote Green a captain, and he thought it was a good idea.  I'm all for doing that with someone who needs that extra push.  It has been obvious Green isn't that guy.  2 minutes of watching games, and you can tell Green and Archie aren't on the same wavelength.  If you think your team is going to vote someone like that a captain, you don't let them vote on it.  Either no captains, or the coaching staff picks them.  You can't under any circumstances let a guy like that become a captain.  You just open the door to have your team torn apart.
2. Archie didn't know the team would vote Green a captain.  With such a small roster, you have to know what your team thinks.  I'm a high school golf coach, and I could probably tell you exactly who all 18 kids would vote for if I let them vote for a captain.  If Archie didn't think Green would get voted captain by the team, that worries me even more that he has that little knowledge of the guys on his team.

I’ll throw another possibility...

3.) Most of the team (lacking good leadership and maturity) all think Green is “awesome man!” And think he should be Captain and made it clear to the staff that this is their leader and that they want him captain and so they were in a pickle before they even had the chance to decide to do it as a coach named position or not. So they tried to work with him the whole time hoping to get him on the same page with them as much as possible knowing this was likely going to be a mess no matter what. Kick him...angry team. Not name him Captain? Angry Team. Name him Captain and he’s who you figure he’ll be...fractured team. Only possible “win” let him be named captain and either he grows OR enough of the team sees THEY made a mistake and new leadership emerges. Long shot but only shot.

maybe what I just described is closer to what happened? If so, Archie is doing everything he can while trying to just get to next year. And maybe Glass forced his hand with APR to keep Green in the first place and try to work with him. Idk...spit balling...

admittedly I can’t stand Green and I like Archie. So I’m probably bias. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[BADGERVOL]

6 minutes ago, bobtcat2 said:

Can't see how they'd be able to pay him 7 million a year.

At IU...easy...IF the Administration wanted to. If they don’t want to be a “school like that” then no. And many indications say that’s exactly what they don’t want.

Do they want the men’s basketball program TO suck? Heck no. They’d love it to be successful. But they’re not going to spend SO much on facilities that we rank among the very top 5 programs...cuz that’s “excessive.” And they don’t want to break the bank for a coach...because a coach like that would be “too big of a name” and overshadow the school and academics. 
 

So they want a nice modest hire, THATS turns out to be worth more than they paid who’s happy to coach here and be above average to good. If he’s great now and then even better. But they’re NOT “all in at all stakes” to return to Blue Blood status. If we stumble back into it great. But that isn’t the primary focus.

Thats my take from following this all for over 20 years, reading insiders comments for years, and just common sense when you connect all the dots.

[OLDIUFAN]

This is Archie thrid year his second year of recruiting. He seen each year our total lack of outside shooting. Yet he hasn’t recruited one. Knight know he needed more guard play and scoring then just Alford so he went out and found Keith Smart! GO GET SOME ONE WHO CAN SHOOT! 
You could see the difference yesterday. Purdue knocked down some quick threes, then things opened up. Their spacing became great given the big guy room to work. He had no problem finding shooters and cutters for easy shots and lay ups. 
Then there us the clinkers. Everyone knows to stop our Freshman standout Davis and this team can’t beat you! 

[Feathery]

Archie will be safe for another year, maybe 2, because of his buyout. The buyout is like 12 or 15 million, if I’m remembering correctly. I’m not ready to throw the towel in on Archie yet, but I do want to see some changes. First just make the dance this year. If not, year 4 is the hot seat. 
 

changes: Green and Davis are gone to graduation. This is a net +. 
I think Justin Smith could be a grad transfer. He is a bright kid and academically driven. Wouldn’t be surprised if graduated in 3 years. 
Damezi transfers

Go get some JUCO’s/Grad Transfers to upgrade the talent and/or fill specific needs  

look to shake up the coaching staff. Roberts seems to be doing a good job with the bigs, so he is safe. Bruiser and Ostrom can go. Bring in a offensive minded assistant and someone to develop guards/wings. 
 

talent wise I do like this starting 5 next year of:

Phinisee JR

Franklin SO

Hunter RSSO

Race RSJR

TJD SO

Brunk and Al off the bench. Leal. Geronimo, and Galloway to play 10 minutes or less each. 

[IUDan93]

I am confident we don't know all that is wrong with this program.  It does appear that there is a player(s) issue. If true, CAM would have to be keenly aware of this issue.  I would think if he is not going to make it as our coach, he would want to go out knowing he did it his way and not leaving his career job up to anyone who is not fully on-board.  I think we all would agree that IU is the "best" coaching job anyone can get in college basketball.  By this I don't mean it is the best job per se, but that no coach is leaving IU for a bigger job in the NCAA.  Whatever the bigger job is, nobody is getting hired there without being extremely successful here, and if successful here there is no better job.  Of course, I could be wrong.  We may not be very much relevant anymore. The biggest story surrounding IU for years was about Knight returning. The next story is whether or not the basketball program will ever return.  

[Seeking6]

10 hours ago, IUskim said:

That’s just where we are now it seems. I for one still believe in this team and coach, but I am tired of getting accused of being a sunshine pumper or accepting mediocrity. It gets very tiresome. These days I just sit back and be a lurker on the board again. I mean in no way am I happy with the way the team is going now but I am still hopeful to a good finish to the season. 

That's all we can do. I absolutely hate what I saw yesterday and IU hoops isn't fun anymore. Something has to change with this current group of kids and staff. I'll evaluate the whole after the season but right now on 2/9 all I can say is it's just not fun. 

[Seeking6]

9 hours ago, A-hOhL said:

We never should have fired Sampson. Great basketball mind. Sure we would have a few recruiting infractions and torpedo smokers from time to time but we would win. Instead, we destroy our own program via overreaction and look at us now. 

It's funny. Wife was saying the same last night. 

[IUFLA]

Kelvin Sampson? Are you friggin kidding me?

Did any of you watch the halftime activities yesterday? Did you see Sage Steele, overcome by emotion, crying? And why?

Because she was overjoyed at the sight of the old man who had essentially built the alter we all worship at coming home.

And it wasn't just about the winning (although I will grant you, any coach that doesn't win has a short shelf-life)...it was the culture...kids progressing from one year to the next...kids graduating...good kids, who, for the most part, stayed out of trouble.

Kelvin Sampson was the anti-Bob Knight in practically every way, shape, and form. Dan Dakich, as much as he's raked over the coals around here, knew it, and did something about it. Even Tom Crean knew it, and finished the purge. We may have suffered 3 of the worst seasons in IU basketball history, but I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. And I watched every gsme

I know at this point some will say, "except winning basketball games." And while that may be true, to me, winning without integrity is meaningless.

It's what always set IU basketball apart.

This season isn't over. I'm with this team, and I'm with this coach.

[Leathernecks]

7 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

I’ll throw another possibility...

3.) Most of the team (lacking good leadership and maturity) all think Green is “awesome man!” And think he should be Captain and made it clear to the staff that this is their leader and that they want him captain and so they were in a pickle before they even had the chance to decide to do it as a coach named position or not. So they tried to work with him the whole time hoping to get him on the same page with them as much as possible knowing this was likely going to be a mess no matter what. Kick him...angry team. Not name him Captain? Angry Team. Name him Captain and he’s who you figure he’ll be...fractured team. Only possible “win” let him be named captain and either he grows OR enough of the team sees THEY made a mistake and new leadership emerges. Long shot but only shot.

maybe what I just described is closer to what happened? If so, Archie is doing everything he can while trying to just get to next year. And maybe Glass forced his hand with APR to keep Green in the first place and try to work with him. Idk...spit balling...

admittedly I can’t stand Green and I like Archie. So I’m probably bias. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I can't imagine a lot of players went to Archie to tell him they wanted Green as a captain before he even let them know they could vote on it. But, I guess without any inside knowledge it is just as plausible as anything else.

I was just giving a broad, he either knew, or he didn't know stance of it. There could be different branches off of those 2 options, but they still fit in him knowing or not knowing in advance.

[tdhoosier]

If Green is the cancer people speculate, the next question out of their mouth is “then why does CAM play him?” I’m going to say because Al has a hard time playing defense, Rob obviously can’t play a full amount of minutes because of a mysterious injury and Franklin is a freshman.

CAM is hamstrung. Partly of his own doing because he should have recruited more guards. 

Like in life the answer to complex questions requires a complex answer. Despite what you think of CAM it’s like the there’s one pressing ‘no brainer’ answer he has failed grasp.

Look, the team is limited in personnel. The system he wants to play requires specific personnel. I.e. big men with quick feet who can recover from hedges. Everybody is always drooling over UVA, but it took a while for Bennett to go get the right players for his system. CAM so far has half a team of players he needs for his system. 

You can call all this ‘making excuses’ but I’l just call it reality. Give the guy another 2 years and let’s see what happens.

Sure, we can go out and hire another coach, but we were shown in the last search that many coaches don’t want to come here. We’re going to be left with another guy like CAM - somebody who is not elite yet and looking to prove themselves. We go down this road - it’s another 5 years of not winning. Reality isn’t pretty right now, but we need to face it. 

 

 

[Seeking6]

23 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Kelvin Sampson? Are you friggin kidding me?

Did any of you watch the halftime activities yesterday? Did you see Sage Steele, overcome by emotion, crying? And why?

Because she was overjoyed at the sight of the old man who had essentially built the alter we all worship at coming home.

And it wasn't just about the winning (although I will grant you, any coach that doesn't win has a short shelf-life)...it was the culture...kids progressing from one year to the next...kids graduating...good kids, who, for the most part, stayed out of trouble.

Kelvin Sampson was the anti-Bob Knight in practically every way, shape, and form. Dan Dakich, as much as he's raked over the coals around here, knew it, and did something about it. Even Tom Crean knew it, and finished the purge. We may have suffered 3 of the worst seasons in IU basketball history, but I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. And I watched every gsme

I know at this point some will say, "except winning basketball games." And while that may be true, to me, winning without integrity is meaningless.

It's what always set IU basketball apart.

This season isn't over. I'm with this team, and I'm with this coach.

All I know is that our current version isn't fun to watch play anymore. Getting beat like we did in game 23 of year 3 of a coaching tenure vs rival at home when we honor our legend. That just can't happen. I'll support the team and hope that Archie can turn this thing around still but I also don't blame people for just saying f this stuff. 

[OLDIUFAN]

We don’t need Kevin Sampson. The kids he brought in here weren’t going to classes, I think I read once the teams gpa was under 2.0 .their  were rumors of drug use. Come on you really want that. We need a great recruiting coach that can hire good assistant to coach up the team. Another thing that has me worried is .I am not seeing any player improvement. Green, Smith, Durham, Phinisee,Damezi none of these guys game has improved. Maybe some of it in Phinisee case is injuries but what about the others. 
Three years and our team isn’t ready to play in the Big Ten. So is this group of coaches able to figure this out. I am starting to wonder. They don’t seem to be to concerned about going out and getting the players to help this group. I had heard the kid from Sellisburg was at the game yesterday. I wonder which team he thought would be more fun to play for ! Any doubt

i didn’t watch Archies press conference! I don’t buy what he’s selling anymore. Same old crap, big tens tough we need to play with more energy. And oh yeah the There’s a lot of opportunity ahead of us! Hard to remember which game he said these things after, it feels like a broken record to me! 

 

 

[IUrocker]

I support Archie and hope he succeeds. I was pumped when we hired him because I thought he was gonna be the next really good up and coming coach. I said to my friends and family  “if he can take Dayton to the Elite 8, just imagine what he could do with IUs resources and glamour.  
It is indeed getting difficult to pick a side as far as whether this is a coaching issue or a players issue.....but something definitely does feel off about the team. Whether he is being handcuffed by whoever, or as Jarod Odle put it and said he experienced himself, a “cancer” on the team, I haven’t really seen the fire and grit I expected Archie to portray. People could say he acts clueless and seems over his head, which indeed passes the eye test, but at the same time I could see a guy frustrated and pissed about a possible internal situation he’s trying to manage that no one really knows about, and it sucks because he knows the only thing people see on the outside is piss poor effort and losses, which is making people question his coaching abilities. His Dayton teams always played with passion and intensity, and made what Archie built a reputation as being. There are kids on this team who just act like they don’t give a damn. The fact that Archie isn’t ripping into them makes me wonder what the heck is really going on.