Indy1987 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, AxnJxn said: With respect to Green, you don't have the luxury of just sitting him. Rob and Jerome both have had injury issues, and AF and AD have been inconsistent at best. If you want to use the bench as a message, you kinda have to play some people you may not want to. Add in the fact that CAM would relieve a lot of pressure if we managed to get into the tournament this year, and he's got to at least dip his toe in the Devonte water each game to see what we're getting. Oh I agree. I think making the tournament would take a lot of heat off. Is the heat just from fans or is there really an ultimatum from the administration is the question I have.  I'd hope CAM is thinking long term and setting a standard of how things are going to work at IU.  If that means playing a walk on a few minutes a game and not making the dance so be it.  Continuing to reward bad play and poor effort with minutes is not the answer. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Good question.  Maybe he thinks if he parks a guy like Devonte on the bench all game all season that Devonte will eventually start pissing in the well and bring down the whole team.  So he has to try to keep him somewhat happy or else everything goes to crap.  But it looks like it is anyway so I don’t know. This is exactly what I have been thinking all along. There's nothing worse that an unhappy player who feels entitled and is uncoachable. I'm not saying this is the case at IU, but IMHO it sounds pretty spot on. "A Bad apple always spoils the bunch".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radio Zero Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 It probably would have been much better for Coach AM’s prospects at IU had some of these (apparent) locker room issues arisen in his first year or two, rather than his second or third (I realize there were problems last year).  I’m simply saying that the fan base would have been much more understanding about him establishing his regime earlier on (sitting guys with bad attitudes, tinkering with lineups because of unfamiliarity, all that kind of thing). We EXPECTED the team was going to lose as he was taking the reins; three years in, expectations are rather different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Indy1987 said: The speculation though seems to be that the administration didn't allow Archie to clean house(@ the beginning or now).  It seems like a pretty good theory.  The question then is why would CAM continue to give the supposed bad apples playing time. Did the administration tell him to keep the players happy so they wouldn't transfer? Someone claimed that Coach Allen and CAM were given ultimatums last year. Bowl game or gone for CTA or Tourney or bust for CAM. If that's true then I could see why players aren't getting benched.  Go Hoosiers!!! That theory seems to make sense until you consider Archie immediately ran off Grant Gelon and Curtis Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: That theory seems to make sense until you consider Archie immediately ran off Grant Gelon and Curtis Jones. Curtis Jones did not leave right away, he left after the fall semester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 51 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said: This is exactly what I have been thinking all along. There's nothing worse that an unhappy player who feels entitled and is uncoachable. I'm not saying this is the case at IU, but IMHO it sounds pretty spot on. "A Bad apple always spoils the bunch".... Then kick him off the team. Not hard. CAM is the coach. Scholarships are not written in stone. Don't follow the rules or want be a detriment to the team, see you later. Very simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, IowaHoosierFan said: Then kick him off the team. Not hard. CAM is the coach. Scholarships are not written in stone. Don't follow the rules or want be a detriment to the team, see you later. Very simple Unless if someone is telling him that he can't kick them off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: That theory seems to make sense until you consider Archie immediately ran off Grant Gelon and Curtis Jones. very interesting thought here. I completely forgot about these two. Maybe the evil administration got on him after doing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 hours ago, IU Scott said: Curtis Jones did not leave right away, he left after the fall semester -snip- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 True. He did cut Gelon fairly quick. That was a huge mistake by CTC in giving him a scholly(but that's another story).  And Cujo left on his own after seeing his minutes cut.  Maybe after he left something was said to CAM. Or maybe he got concerned with the APR.  I think we all agree CAM was dealt a crappy hand that 1st year. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhinithreeMagic Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, AxnJxn said: With respect to Green, you don't have the luxury of just sitting him. Rob and Jerome both have had injury issues, and AF and AD have been inconsistent at best. If you want to use the bench as a message, you kinda have to play some people you may not want to. Add in the fact that CAM would relieve a lot of pressure if we managed to get into the tournament this year, and he's got to at least dip his toe in the Devonte water each game to see what we're getting. In my opinion, the Devonte situation is very complex and you hit a portion of it on the head. Others have also pointed out previously that there likely aren't any bad apples on this team in the traditional sense. They're all good kids that seem to get along. In Devonte's case, he was also voted Team Captain by his peers. This puts CAM in a difficult position in my mind. There's a fine line between holding him accountable for his effort/decision making and alienating a team full of guys that look up to him. We've seen his minutes dwindle (25mpg through 1/11 vs OSU, 17mpg since he laid an egg against Rutgers). If we had any sort of option at back-up PG, that 17 number would likely be lower. I think the fact that Archie and the team find themselves in this position warrants some blame, but it doesn't make sense to me that Devonte plays because the administration wants him to. I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 15 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said: very interesting thought here. I completely forgot about these two. Maybe the evil administration got on him after doing this For those that believe our admin is the issue...it's certainly going to make those people believe that more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Ya don’t say??  That totally refutes my entire point! Thanks for the reminder of why I have you blocked, genius. What did I say that was incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 I know this article has been posted before... Devonte has been through quite a lot in his young life...maybe, just maybe Archie takes things like his mom leaving the family when he was 2, and his dad being incarcerated when he was still in grade school into account in trying to salvage his college basketball career...Sure he had the luxury of having a brother who's in the NBA, but you have to think all the family stuff made trusting people difficult. The easy way out for Archie would be to simply cut him or not play him...the more difficult task would be to try to get him to play solid basketball and lead this team to success... Maybe Archie has chosen the tougher path...and it can help CAM in the long run, too...if the team sees him simply give up on Devonte, they'll think he might give up on them too...if they see he's invested in both Devonte and the team, that resonates... Anyway, Devonte's Senior Night speech should be one of the more interesting in recent memory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsStoller Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I know this article has been posted before... Devonte has been through quite a lot in his young life...maybe, just maybe Archie takes things like his mom leaving the family when he was 2, and his dad being incarcerated when he was still in grade school into account in trying to salvage his college basketball career...Sure he had the luxury of having a brother who's in the NBA, but you have to think all the family stuff made trusting people difficult. The easy way out for Archie would be to simply cut him or not play him...the more difficult task would be to try to get him to play solid basketball and lead this team to success... Maybe Archie has chosen the tougher path...and it can help CAM in the long run, too...if the team sees him simply give up on Devonte, they'll think he might give up on them too...if they see he's invested in both Devonte and the team, that resonates... Anyway, Devonte's Senior Night speech should be one of the more interesting in recent memory... I’ve thought about that article and Devonte a lot. Everybody has a story, something they are going through that most have no knowledge of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 33 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Unless if someone is telling him that he can't kick them off I think you're on to something "When Miller came in, no honestly, I wasn't nervous," Gelon said. "He looked at all of us and said, 'You're my guys.' When he called me in the day before my last final, I was blindsided." After the meeting May 3, Gelon bounced around ideas about what he should do with his parents, Mark and Sandi. Gelon was working hard and making progress, he said. So on May 12, he told Miller he planned on staying at Indiana. "Everything changed after that," Gelon said. "It got ugly." The next day Sandi got a text from a coach of the Indiana Elite AAU program, where Grant played, and it said: "Hey! I'm sure you (k)now by now that Grant called and said he was staying, IU staff told us they may just push him off the team and let him keep his scholarship but he won't be playing or on the team. Sandi and Mark Gelon met with Indiana athletic director Fred Glass on May 22 to discuss Grant's position in the program. "Why wasn't (Miller) there?" Sandi asked on Monday. https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/indiana-university/crown-point-s-grant-gelon-unhappy-about-treatment-at-indiana/article_bfe85faa-0936-5407-b1c0-11ef2705bec9.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 36 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I think you're on to something "When Miller came in, no honestly, I wasn't nervous," Gelon said. "He looked at all of us and said, 'You're my guys.' When he called me in the day before my last final, I was blindsided." After the meeting May 3, Gelon bounced around ideas about what he should do with his parents, Mark and Sandi. Gelon was working hard and making progress, he said. So on May 12, he told Miller he planned on staying at Indiana. "Everything changed after that," Gelon said. "It got ugly." The next day Sandi got a text from a coach of the Indiana Elite AAU program, where Grant played, and it said: "Hey! I'm sure you (k)now by now that Grant called and said he was staying, IU staff told us they may just push him off the team and let him keep his scholarship but he won't be playing or on the team. Sandi and Mark Gelon met with Indiana athletic director Fred Glass on May 22 to discuss Grant's position in the program. "Why wasn't (Miller) there?" Sandi asked on Monday. https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/indiana-university/crown-point-s-grant-gelon-unhappy-about-treatment-at-indiana/article_bfe85faa-0936-5407-b1c0-11ef2705bec9.html Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 You're using the example of a player who was kicked off the team... as evidence that Archie isn't being allowed to kick players off the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 Sounds like a well thought out conspiracy theory.  Who talked Juwan out of transferring? Staff, admin, or player? Creaning may be a different issue. Here's the crux of it all though. If playing time at the guard position wasn't almost gauranteed because of lack of competition/not landing the 3 or 4 guards that CAM went after last spring, maybe we would have seen another transfer or two on the basis of playing time. Compound the problem that the recruits we didn't land know they would be competing with solid not great upperclassmen for a coach that has shown favor to upperclassmen. Dang it man.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, Maedhros said: You're using the example of a player who was kicked off the team... as evidence that Archie isn't being allowed to kick players off the team? How many have been kicked off since that incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: I know this article has been posted before... Devonte has been through quite a lot in his young life...maybe, just maybe Archie takes things like his mom leaving the family when he was 2, and his dad being incarcerated when he was still in grade school into account in trying to salvage his college basketball career...Sure he had the luxury of having a brother who's in the NBA, but you have to think all the family stuff made trusting people difficult. The easy way out for Archie would be to simply cut him or not play him...the more difficult task would be to try to get him to play solid basketball and lead this team to success... Maybe Archie has chosen the tougher path...and it can help CAM in the long run, too...if the team sees him simply give up on Devonte, they'll think he might give up on them too...if they see he's invested in both Devonte and the team, that resonates... Anyway, Devonte's Senior Night speech should be one of the more interesting in recent memory... Wow, very good point....I never looked at it that way. Coming from a H. S. teacher for over twenty years now,  I have students like that with very similar stories. Knowing about their situation really helps with teaching strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 18 hours ago, cybergates said: He said he couldn't stand Crean, because Crean changed once certain players made it to campus and started letting certain players get away with too many things. Wow! If you posted this before, I most likely missed it. No wonder he can only do well in short spurts, but no consistency. Even now his team is doing like sh!t in the weak SEC. He never recognizes his own shortcomings; always trying to find reasons outside of him. I know and can understand big time D-1 coaches all have big egos and high self esteem, but this man's ego is very special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 15 hours ago, JugRox said: He has arguably the 2 worst Georgia teams in the last decade. Remember when they beat Memphis and everyone wanted him back? Serious? People really need to get a grip. IU fans wanted him out not because he lacked ability to beat ranked teams. He indeed beat a lot of ranked teams as IU coach. His biggest problem was consistency, recruiting (he lost the state of Indiana), and team management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, addictedtoIU said: Serious? People really need to get a grip. IU fans wanted him out not because he lacked ability to beat ranked teams. He indeed beat a lot of ranked teams as IU coach. His biggest problem was consistency, recruiting (he lost the state of Indiana), and team management. ........His biggest problem was consistency, recruiting (he lost the state of Indiana), and team management. In my book that's a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted February 13, 2020 Report Share Posted February 13, 2020 Lovely.... 29 pages of ammunition for recruiters from other schools to use against IU...... Uggghhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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