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The H🔥T Seat


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13 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I see Miller as having greater potential than either Davis or Crean. Not sure if he'll be better than Sampson, but his history is a lot cleaner and he's recruiting better kids to IU than Sampson was. Why such a short leash for him?

I think most are snake bitten from the Crean years.  For me it all boils down to effort that IU plays with.  There are way too many times the Hoosiers seem to come out uninterested.  I believe that goes back to the coach. 

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23 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I see Miller as having greater potential than either Davis or Crean. Not sure if he'll be better than Sampson, but his history is a lot cleaner and he's recruiting better kids to IU than Sampson was. Why such a short leash for him?

I just don't like the trajectory we're on and I don't feel like the program has been elevated much (if at all) in the last three years. In Miller's first season, the ugly losses didn't bother me as much. I figured we'd be a tournament team in his second year, and the tournament would be a given by year three. But here we are, still struggling to score, still struggling to defend, still fighting tooth and nail to scratch out enough wins just to earn a 9 or 10 seed in a tournament we miss more often than we make anymore. (By the way, a 10 seed would match our lowest ever)

 

The roster lacks talent and there isn't much help on the way. Right now, Archie Miller is not a coach who can elevate a team to play above its means. That could always change, of course, but we have nothing but blind hope to suggest it will. 

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4 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Yep. It feels like a carousel but actually we've been extremely patient. Not an exact analogy but similar in terms of tradition and importance of sport to their fans. Alabama football made 4 head football coach hires in the 10 years between Stallings and Saban. 

I guess Alabama didn't get the memo that you're supposed to let a coach fail for at least 4 years because...well, you just have to. Don't want a coaching carousel! I think it just comes down to people fearing change. I'm not sure you're any worse off firing bad coaches every few years then letting bad coaches hang around for far too long. 

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14 minutes ago, BDB said:

I think most are snake bitten from the Crean years.  For me it all boils down to effort that IU plays with.  There are way too many times the Hoosiers seem to come out uninterested.  I believe that goes back to the coach. 

It doesn't surprise me that he struggles to motivate. He's just very bland. Very boring personality. 

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10 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

It doesn't surprise me that he struggles to motivate. He's just very bland. Very boring personality. 

That's not at all what recruits have said and it's obvious that for at least some games (the last game is fresh in my mind), the team comes out looking sharp and motivated.  Do you honestly think he coaches that much differently from game to game?  If you do, I guess we'll have to disagree.  I think he has what it takes and I'm glad that the administration is more patient than some of our fans in letting him prove out.  I think there is a lot more than just "blind optimism" to support giving him the time it takes to make his case to the more pessimistic members of Hoosier Nation, but it's obvious I won't convince a few of you skeptics.  Since you and I both know that IU's administration has a history of being very patient with at least most coaches, why not relax and be patient?  All being impatient will do is upset you and raise your blood pressure. 😜

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46 minutes ago, TheWatShot said:

It doesn't surprise me that he struggles to motivate. He's just very bland. Very boring personality. 

You basing this off interviews? What are you saying here does not match what almost everybody around him says.

He is known to be direct, but not overly talkative to Media. But those behind the scenes say his intensity and witty sense of humor are always on display.

I am not defending him against the criticisms you listed, but the boring personality is really just not accurate. 

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2 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

It doesn't surprise me that he struggles to motivate. He's just very bland. Very boring personality. 

Do you watch games much?

I do. And, I see plenty of hysterics and theatrics from coach. I know it's subjective, but I can't imagine Archie Miller is either boring or bland.

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8 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

Do you watch games much?

I do. And, I see plenty of hysterics and theatrics from coach. I know it's subjective, but I can't imagine Archie Miller is either boring or bland.

We do and we see mostly gum chewing.

Honestly Archie is almost certainly guaranteed a 4th year.  But after that our front court will consist of only Race Thompson.  Whether he gets a 5th year or not will depend almost entirely on the 2021 recruiting class.  He needs at minimum 2 impact big men plus a stud guard or it will likely be impossible to justify a 5th year.

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3 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

 

The roster lacks talent and there isn't much help on the way. Right now, Archie Miller is not a coach who can elevate a team to play above its means. That could always change, of course, but we have nothing but blind hope to suggest it will. 

There’s historical evidence as well

https://www.si.com/college/2015/03/18/dayton-flyers-ncaa-tournament-first-four

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7 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Yep. It feels like a carousel but actually we've been extremely patient. Not an exact analogy but similar in terms of tradition and importance of sport to their fans. Alabama football made 4 head football coach hires in the 10 years between Stallings and Saban. 

To be fair with that, one of those coaches (Franchione) left on his own to go from Alabama to Texas A&M

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2016/10/looking_back_at_the_coach_who.html

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41 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

We do and we see mostly gum chewing.

Honestly Archie is almost certainly guaranteed a 4th year.  But after that our front court will consist of only Race Thompson.  Whether he gets a 5th year or not will depend almost entirely on the 2021 recruiting class.  He needs at minimum 2 impact big men plus a stud guard or it will likely be impossible to justify a 5th year.

I mean, I was commenting on him not being boring.

But, hey, I guess you’ll preach that thinking to anyone you think will listen. I’m not in your camp and I don’t agree with you. I also don’t subscribe to your prediction of how things are going to go.

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3 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

I guess Alabama didn't get the memo that you're supposed to let a coach fail for at least 4 years because...well, you just have to. Don't want a coaching carousel! I think it just comes down to people fearing change. I'm not sure you're any worse off firing bad coaches every few years then letting bad coaches hang around for far too long. 

To counter that, all of those Alabama coaches except the one that left on his own got at least 4 years (looks like Mike Shula was out right before the bowl game in year 4)

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/alabama/index.html

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3 hours ago, TheWatShot said:

The roster lacks talent and there isn't much help on the way. Right now, Archie Miller is not a coach who can elevate a team to play above its means. That could always change, of course, but we have nothing but blind hope to suggest it will. 

Your perspective is well founded and has some merit, but there are two significant items that you don’t appear to be considering:

1.) The lack of talent being offset by player development. Players should develop and get better. That is, the level of play we have experienced from players won’t remain static.

2.) The very real possibility that the uneven play of this year’s squad has an enormous amount to do with upperclassmen effort and attitude. And before we go down the rabbit hole about coach needs to sit or dismiss guys if they are such a problem, I’ll stipulate that he has done better using the bench as a tool, but, there is such enormous pressure he likely feels he needs to play the guys that can get the team wins.

Coach Miller very successfully helmed a much less significant program at UD. Player development and motivation weren’t hinderances there. He will, and should, get longer than 3 or even 4 years to fully get his people, system, and culture completely in place.

As disappointed as we find ourselves from time to time, changing coaches every 4 years is an absolute recipe for perpetual ineptitude. 

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40 minutes ago, zerawkid said:

I mean, I was commenting on him not being boring.

But, hey, I guess you’ll preach that thinking to anyone you think will listen. I’m not in your camp and I don’t agree with you. I also don’t subscribe to your prediction of how things are going to go.

I don't agree with him either but I'm OK with the debate even if the other side is wrong. 😜

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Make the NCAA this year and 95% of the noise goes away. Steady W-L improvement from year 1-2-3, while going to the NCAA in year 3.  Big picture that’s solid. I understand the grumbling of the game by game. 
 

Miss the tourney and it could be very difficult next year. New AD, no tournament in Archies 3 years. Seat doesn’t get any hotter. 
 

The next few weeks are huge for Archie. Hold serve at home, 3-2, gives IU a 10-10 conference record and easily dancing before BTT. 

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12 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

True story...had this sent to me

20200222_180053.jpg

I wonder how many message board posters or worse Twitter tweeters grew up without social media and dont understand how ingrained it is in young people's daily life today.  It's easy to be an ahole on the internet.  

 

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3 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

The historical evidence as presented in that link suggests otherwise and contrary to what TheWatShot posted.  Archie can elevate the level of play.  I live in Dayton and was witness to that season.  Like I've always said.  He can coach but you have to give him a chance.  Incidentally,  Jordan Siebert mentioned in that linked story was the only top 100 recruit Archie ever had at Dayton.  #84.

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1 hour ago, Feathery said:

Make the NCAA this year and 95% of the noise goes away. Steady W-L improvement from year 1-2-3, while going to the NCAA in year 3.  Big picture that’s solid. I understand the grumbling of the game by game. 
 

Miss the tourney and it could be very difficult next year. New AD, no tournament in Archies 3 years. Seat doesn’t get any hotter. 
 

The next few weeks are huge for Archie. Hold serve at home, 3-2, gives IU a 10-10 conference record and easily dancing before BTT. 

This sums it up perfectly. I said before the year began making the tournament would be sufficient progress this year, but missing it would make the seat hot for next year. Here’s hoping we make the tournament and all this goes away. 

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1 hour ago, HoosierJax said:

True story...had this sent to me

20200222_180053.jpg

Thanks and very true; however the same happens at most Universities and even at the High School level.  No excuse for it, and it is not right; however, the coach should no that.  Heck fans call for coaching replacements at Carthrage.  Indiana gets record breaking viewership for games and is in the spot light.  Kentucky fans call for Calipari replacement and a few years ago Duke fans were calling for K to retire.  Recruits still go there.

I guess it is worse that a coach would use that as an example as to why not go somewhere.  Its the kids decision and coaches know it happens, not for the right reason, everwhere.

Coaches should know their role and that is to support in recruiting and not manipulate thought.  

Just my two cents.

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14 hours ago, Feathery said:

Make the NCAA this year and 95% of the noise goes away. Steady W-L improvement from year 1-2-3, while going to the NCAA in year 3.  Big picture that’s solid. I understand the grumbling of the game by game. 
 

Miss the tourney and it could be very difficult next year. New AD, no tournament in Archies 3 years. Seat doesn’t get any hotter. 
 

The next few weeks are huge for Archie. Hold serve at home, 3-2, gives IU a 10-10 conference record and easily dancing before BTT. 

That's my opinion as well.  He needs to win at least 3 of the last 5 to keep off the bubble going into the selection.  I think a 20 win Indiana is in the tournament.

If he makes the NCAA's this year, the pressure dials down a bit.  Then hopefully year 4 proves out the sunnier viewpoint that we just have some guys not buying in and we get a few JUCO/grad transfers and go from there.  If he has a decent year and lands enough of the elite talent in the 21 class then he has probably weathered the storm.

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2 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

That's my opinion as well.  He needs to win at least 3 of the last 5 to keep off the bubble going into the selection.  I think a 20 win Indiana is in the tournament.

If he makes the NCAA's this year, the pressure dials down a bit.  Then hopefully year 4 proves out the sunnier viewpoint that we just have some guys not buying in and we get a few JUCO/grad transfers and go from there.  If he has a decent year and lands enough of the elite talent in the 21 class then he has probably weathered the storm.

It would do a lot of good for everyone (program, staff, players, fans, etc.) if IU ends this season not just squeaking into the tournament but getting in with some momentum. I don’t even mean making a run in the tournament, I just mean winning 3/4 out of these last 5 and a game or two in the BTT. 

Get into the tournament solidly, even with a 7/8 and then there’s some real momentum heading into the Spring recruiting cycle and the summer. 

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