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NCAA to allow instant eligibility for transfers (?)


DWB

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18 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

With one thread about Coaches around the NCAA on the hot seat and this thread about immediate eligibility.  Which players from teams about to lose coaches would be attractive to add to IU?  I watch a lot of Texas.  Coleman, Ramey and Sims would interest me if they decided to leave. None of them are from Texas.  

I'd look at Michael DeVoe at Ga Tech. 6'5 So combo guard averaging 16 ppg, 41% from 3. IU offered him in 2017, but he didn't visit. Other visits were FL, OSU and WF. From Orlando, so he may stay SE.

Standout guard from the state of Florida who moved into the starting lineup early in his freshman season and steadily improved as the season progressed … Left-handed guard with a high IQ, excellent playmaker and good positional size, pass first but not pass only … His outside shot and importance as a scorer improved markedly over the latter half of his freshman season … Starred on a national powerhouse at Montverde Academy following an all-star career at Oak Ridge High School

Business major. I think IU may have a school that offers that.  :coffee:

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I was just listening to last night's Assembly Call and learned that there are only 5 NCAA sports that have transfer rules. I think it was Women's BBall, Football, Basketball, Hockey and Baseball. Just an interesting tidbit that I didn't know and wanted to share. 

The world hasn't ended in the other sports that allow transfers. So, is there harm in at least trying it to see how it goes? Unlike the NLI, which is law, this is only a rule that can be reversed down the line if things get out of control. 

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2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I was just listening to last night's Assembly Call and learned that there are only 5 NCAA sports that have transfer rules. I think it was Women's BBall, Football, Basketball, Hockey and Baseball. Just an interesting tidbit that I didn't know and wanted to share. 

The world hasn't ended in the other sports that allow transfers. So, is there harm in at least trying it to see how it goes? Unlike the NLI, which is law, this is only a rule that can be reversed down the line if things get out of control. 

Well one thing a lot of those other sports don't offer full scholarships and a lot don't offer scholarships at all.

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Well one thing a lot of those other sports don't offer full scholarships and a lot don't offer scholarships at all.

Not sure what difference that makes if there still are athletes who are on full scholarships in these other sports, and they are allowed to transfer. Why those athletes and not others? It seems if there has to be rule, it should be consistent across the board. 

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On 2/19/2020 at 12:10 PM, HoosierTownie said:

To play devil's advocate, one could argue that they are being paid by the university in the form of tuition, room, and board.  To me, for income purposes, this would be similar to having to declare a company provided vehicle used for personal purposes as taxable income.  And in many instances, the annual value of that tuition, room, and board is greater than what many graduates make at their first job (i.e. a first year teacher).

Like you, I'm not a lawyer, and have no idea how it would play out if schools tried to treat scholarship athletes as employees.  I'm old school when it comes to this stuff and disagree with it, the athletes are compensated in the form of free education, and the more the NCAA moves away from that, the less enjoyable it becomes for me.  I like watching players come to IU and grow and develop over 3-4 years and having that sense of connection.

You can’t really call the education “paid”. It’s not like they can use their college credits to pay their parents mortgage so they don’t get evicted. Or to repair their car so they don’t get fired. 
 

And for decades UNC didn’t actually educate their athletes. So they clearly weren’t getting compensated. 

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13 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

You can’t really call the education “paid”. It’s not like they can use their college credits to pay their parents mortgage so they don’t get evicted. Or to repair their car so they don’t get fired. 
 

And for decades UNC didn’t actually educate their athletes. So they clearly weren’t getting compensated. 

I'd also add that saying tuition is $35k isn't exactly $35k the university is investing in an athlete. That's the "MSRP" if you will. The university's cost for player x's tuition is close to nothing - they are throwing another kid in a classroom. 

Yes room, books and food cost money to the university and can be seen as an investment being made in an athlete. But the "compensation" of a scholarship being equal to a 'teacher's salary' is greatly distorted. 

 

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There will have to be strong tampering rules. Caught tampering and you are banned for life. That strong. Also if a coach leaves a school, current players can't go to that school for 2 years. Something has to be done about the timing of transfers. You must have finished the last season at a school in good standing. You must be in the portal before May 1st or you have to sit out a year if you transfer after that date. Coaches cant be caught a week before school starts will a kid leaving.

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33 minutes ago, Indykev said:

There will have to be strong tampering rules. Caught tampering and you are banned for life. That strong. Also if a coach leaves a school, current players can't go to that school for 2 years. Something has to be done about the timing of transfers. You must have finished the last season at a school in good standing. You must be in the portal before May 1st or you have to sit out a year if you transfer after that date. Coaches cant be caught a week before school starts will a kid leaving.

Are there tampering rules already?

And I see no reason why you would allow transfers but prevent players from following the coach to which they committed to another school.  Seems arbitrary and unfair.

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6 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Are there tampering rules already?

And I see no reason why you would allow transfers but prevent players from following the coach to which they committed to another school.  Seems arbitrary and unfair.

Not sure but they would need to be stronger if there are. or hand shake lines might last an hour or 2. The one rule i saw they are talking about is the school will need to release the kid to transfer. Schools will be able to force kids to stay. Which is more unfair than blocking a school. You have to protect the schools at some point. Keeping the whole team from following the coach is a way to do that. you have a coaching change now you are looking for 14 players? it might happen one way or the other but you have to keep it from happening some how. By the way, i'm all for this for the kids.

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20 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I'd also add that saying tuition is $35k isn't exactly $35k the university is investing in an athlete. That's the "MSRP" if you will. The university's cost for player x's tuition is close to nothing - they are throwing another kid in a classroom. 

Yes room, books and food cost money to the university and can be seen as an investment being made in an athlete. But the "compensation" of a scholarship being equal to a 'teacher's salary' is greatly distorted. 

 

Valid point, but like I said, I'm old school on this and we just disagree.  I look at it from the perspective of what money would the average student have to pay or take student loans out to cover their education.  That's money that a player and/or their family doesn't have to pay or go into debt for.  If an auto maker provided a car to an employee as part of their compensation package, the cost to do so to the employer would be much less than what the employee would have to declare on their taxes, so I'm looking at it as the benefit to the individual, not the cost to the school.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So kinda thinking about the new transfer rule that might be implemented
 

Does anybody think their is a chance that universities like IU and UNC that operate multiple campuses and multiple basketball programs might start to unofficially use their directional affiliates as development programs. 
 

They would run similar offenses and then if they are good enough they get to transfer up.  
 

It could never be an official thing but one of those things nobody admits. 

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On 2/19/2020 at 12:16 PM, milehiiu said:

^^^ Townie. First of all thanks for being a Hoosier Sports Nation member.

In addition to the benefits you listed. Scholarship players also have food provided for them.

What Athletes Will Get Under the NCAA's New Food Rules

They go to school for free, housing, etc. Free food and they get $1500+ scholarship checks every month. 

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

So kinda thinking about the new transfer rule that might be implemented
 

Does anybody think their is a chance that universities like IU and UNC that operate multiple campuses and multiple basketball programs might start to unofficially use their directional affiliates as development programs. 
 

They would run similar offenses and then if they are good enough they get to transfer up.  
 

It could never be an official thing but one of those things nobody admits. 

Long term possibly.  I have stated here I think this ultimately narrows the competition field to power 5 or 6 and even then there are going to be the haves and have nots within them.  

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

So kinda thinking about the new transfer rule that might be implemented
 

Does anybody think their is a chance that universities like IU and UNC that operate multiple campuses and multiple basketball programs might start to unofficially use their directional affiliates as development programs. 
 

They would run similar offenses and then if they are good enough they get to transfer up.  
 

It could never be an official thing but one of those things nobody admits. 

I don’t think this is likely. In theory it could happen, but why would a player want to play for a “developmental program” in hopes of playing for a UNC or IU a few years......IF they’re even lucky enough to be ‘called up’? All the while they’re still likely to be recruited over. Wouldn’t these players just go directly to a high major or contending mid-major as freshmen if they are good enough? These satellite campus will continue to get the caliber of players they’ve always gotten: kids who aren’t good enough to play at IU/UNC. 

And IF a player at a directional affiliate develops into a player who’s good enough to transfer to IU...you’d also be assuming that he wants to go to IU. He could transfer to multiple places in this hypothetical. Other high major coaches in the area aren’t going to not recruit this player because he goes to IUPUI. 

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I might be seen as a stick in the mud, but while we are talking about player rights, let's keep in mind that we are talking about competitive edge with programs.  It is a sport with real issues of competition and having structured rules.  If a program brings in a kid, takes him from zero to 60 in two years while developing him (sometimes an ugly process while the kid skins his knee alot) and then he bolts for another school--maybe in the same conference--the new program can enjoy the results of the first program's sunk costs while he's an upperclassman. I am not sure I like that.  I like the current rule, with two exceptions.  (1) The NCAA needs to have coherent consistency in application of their rules and the reasoning behind it, e.g., in terms of having to sit for a year or not.  (2) If a head coach leaves, I think a player should have free reign to transfer.  

Back in the day, a player couldn't switch within the B1G unless he gave up his scholly.  Lawrence Funderburke had to do that when he left IU for OSU.

As dysfunctional, inept, and corrupt as the NCAA is, their inconsistency in their rulings is maybe their biggest weakness.  I have to think their leadership is out of its league and the folks making rulings may just not be all that bright.  They may think they need to protect their sacred cows like UNC basketball, but they lack next level thinking.  Sometimes you lose a hand early to win a hand later.  I'd say that if they brought the hammer to UNC--as they most certainly should have--there may have been a short term financial loss, but they would have won in the end because the credibility of the sport would have been enhanced.  College basketball used to be thriving much more than it is.  In the last 20 years, college football and the NBA have left it in the dusk.  The sport is full of dysfunction, and the NCAA stewardship is at the heart of it.  Pure ineptitude.

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To me if a coach who is getting paid millions of dollars can leave and immediately go coach for another school then athletes should be able to transfer at least once for free without sitting out.  Plus, schools have to have room for them to transfer in.  I would expect to see a rush of them the first year and then it will find level and won't be a big deal.

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Is this rule definitely  be implemented for this off season.  Mu thinking is that if this goes into effect this year Archie probably will look more at the regular transfers instead of just having to look at grad transfers.  if they don't have sit out a year then we won't have to hold up that scholarship that extra year.  it is easier to know you only have to use it for 2 years on a transfer over a 3rd if  players transfers after their sophomore year.

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