NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Just for the sake of the original arguement. 11 of self 48 tourney wins came before KU. So that is 37 tourney wins in 15 seasons at KU. With 3 final fours and 1 championship. In Izzo' s last 15 he has, wait for it, 37 tourney wins. With zero championships in this time period but 5 final four appearances. There has been name calling on both sides(troll, ignorant, obtuse) of this while the question was framed "since self has been at Kansas what has been the tournament record." Neither accurately displayed the facts. I also hate to be the bearer of bad news but the b1G has only rated higher than the b12 4 times since the 03-04 season in end of season rpi conference ratings. Farva said kenpom but I don't have access to these ratings and at the end of the season they all wind up about the same. https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf?date=2004-04-06 Farva, speak to people with respect and respect will be given back. It's that easy. Most of the regulars here go back 10 years or more with each other. Welcome to the fold but where respect is given, respect will be received. I did the homework for both parties here. You're welcome. Took about 45 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 One thing Self really benefits from at KU that he wouldn't if at UI is tournament seeding. He would not be finishing at the top of the conference every single year in the big 10 so wouldn't have such easy first weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Just for the sake of the original arguement. 11 of self 48 tourney wins came before KU. So that is 37 tourney wins in 15 seasons at KU. With 3 final fours and 2 championships. In Izzo' s last 15 he has, wait for it, 37 tourney wins. With zero championships in this time period but 5 final four appearances. There has been name calling on both sides(troll, ignorant, obtuse) of this while the question was framed "since self has been at Kansas what has been the tournament record." Neither accurately displayed the facts. I also hate to be the bearer of bad news but the b1G has only rated higher than the b12 4 times since the 03-04 season in end of season rpi conference ratings. Farva said kenpom but I don't have access to these ratings and at the end of the season they all wind up about the same. https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf?date=2004-04-06 Farva, speak to people with respect and respect will be given back. It's that easy. Most of the regulars here go back 10 years or more with each other. Welcome to the fold but where respect is given, respect will be received. I did the homework for both parties here. You're welcome. Took about 45 minutes. Just for accuracy, Self only has 1 championship in 2008 at Kansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, mrflynn03 said: One thing Self really benefits from at KU that he wouldn't if at UI is tournament seeding. He would not be finishing at the top of the conference every single year in the big 10 so wouldn't have such easy first weekends. If you read my post right above yours you would see that the B1G has only rat3d higher in final season rpi 4 times in the last 15 years. We live in B1G country and think we are the greatest but we aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: Just for accuracy, Self only has 1 championship in 2008 at Kansas. Oh shoot. I saw that 18 final four and my eyes got crossed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, NotIThatLives said: If you read my post right above yours you would see that the B1G has only rat3d higher in final season rpi 4 times in the last 15 years. We live in B1G country and think we are the greatest but we aren't. Like this year is a good argument is the big ten better this year than the big 12. I guess it depends on what you thinks constitutes the best. Is it having a few elite teams at the top but not much after those teams. Is it having a lot of really good teams but not many great ones. This year the big 12 has the #1 and 3 teams in the country but the remeing teams ar ejsut average at best but some will still say they think that means the conference is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: Like this year is a good argument is the big ten better this year than the big 12. I guess it depends on what you thinks constitutes the best. Is it having a few elite teams at the top but not much after those teams. Is it having a lot of really good teams but not many great ones. This year the big 12 has the #1 and 3 teams in the country but the remeing teams ar ejsut average at best but some will still say they think that means the conference is better. Personally I'd take contenders over the pack of teams we have at 29-35 that most likely don't stand a chance to win a championship. However these conference ratings are an average of all the conferences teams. Just delivering the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: If you read my post right above yours you would see that the B1G has only rat3d higher in final season rpi 4 times in the last 15 years. We live in B1G country and think we are the greatest but we aren't. I saw that. Good research btw. In my mind it was more of a program comparison. No doubt he would get talent at UI. I'm just not sure if he would get the quality of talent as consistently as he does at KU. Then again, money is usually on the table so....maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Just for the sake of the original arguement. 11 of self 48 tourney wins came before KU. So that is 37 tourney wins in 15 seasons at KU. With 3 final fours and 1 championship. In Izzo' s last 15 he has, wait for it, 37 tourney wins. With zero championships in this time period but 5 final four appearances. There has been name calling on both sides(troll, ignorant, obtuse) of this while the question was framed "since self has been at Kansas what has been the tournament record." Neither accurately displayed the facts. I also hate to be the bearer of bad news but the b1G has only rated higher than the b12 4 times since the 03-04 season in end of season rpi conference ratings. Farva said kenpom but I don't have access to these ratings and at the end of the season they all wind up about the same. https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf?date=2004-04-06 Farva, speak to people with respect and respect will be given back. It's that easy. Most of the regulars here go back 10 years or more with each other. Welcome to the fold but where respect is given, respect will be received. I did the homework for both parties here. You're welcome. Took about 45 minutes. Interesting facts, thank you. Personally, I am not a fan of either guy. At all. Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lizard said: Interesting facts, thank you. Personally, I am not a fan of either guy. At all. Peace! Both pretty arrogant sleaze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 What if Roy declined the UNC job? Interesting tangent there to this Self discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, rico said: What if Roy declined the UNC job? Interesting tangent there to this Self discussion. Self to UNC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, mrflynn03 said: Self to UNC? Dunno, but the dominoes would have fell differently than what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Who is the better coach? Roy or Self. Take the cheating out of it. I have felt that both of these guys at times in their careers had loaded teams and couldn't get it done. Pretty much underachieved comparable to talent. Then they got over the hump and got the championship. I would say they are both better than Calipari from an x and o standpoint. How would you rank them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Who is the better coach? Roy or Self. Take the cheating out of it. I have felt that both of these guys at times in their careers had loaded teams and couldn't get it done. Pretty much underachieved comparable to talent. Then they got over the hump and got the championship. I would say they are both better than Calipari from an x and o standpoint. How would you rank them? Bill has won at Oral Roberts, Tulsa, Illinois, and Kansas. To me he has the more impressive resume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, rico said: Bill has won at Oral Roberts, Tulsa, Illinois, and Kansas. To me he has the more impressive resume. I would lean with you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, IDontWannaLargeFarva2 said: Plus he was able to get over the hump and win a title at KU where Roy wasn't. I think there is a strong case to be made that Kansas is not much easier to recruit to than Illinois. Like IU, recruits from the East/ West coast can view it as flyover country. Unlike IU, they don't have much of an in-state recruiting base to pull from. Kansas is a blue blood. The name recruits itself just like at Kentucky. Recruiting is never an issue. I would say it is a 100x easier at KU than it is at Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, IDontWannaLargeFarva2 said: Plus he was able to get over the hump and win a title at KU where Roy wasn't. I think there is a strong case to be made that Kansas is not much easier to recruit to than Illinois. Like IU, recruits from the East/ West coast can view it as flyover country. Unlike IU, they don't have much of an in-state recruiting base to pull from. True their in state base is horrible however they can pull from all over and they play in the deep gray water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, IDontWannaLargeFarva2 said: I'm not sure it's that simple, we're a Blue Blood after all. Roy recruited well but certainly not to the level of Self. At the end of the day Self is just a really strong recruiter which is more important that anything the school/ location can offer. So how strong would Self be without the shoe money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, IDontWannaLargeFarva2 said: I'm not sure it's that simple, we're a Blue Blood after all. Roy recruited well but certainly not to the level of Self. At the end of the day Self is just a really strong recruiter which is more important that anything the school/ location can offer. Well, your opinion. I know Roy's KU boys knocked us out in '91 and '93...those were damn good Hoosier teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, rico said: Well, your opinion. I know Roy's KU boys knocked us out in '91 and '93...those were damn good Hoosier teams. I thought those early years at KU was some of his best coaching because they had talent but not super talented teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, rico said: Kansas is a blue blood. The name recruits itself just like at Kentucky. Recruiting is never an issue. I would say it is a 100x easier at KU than it is at Illinois. Recruiting is surprisingly difficult at Illinois. 3-4 different groups of people in the state and 2 in the city. Piss off the one and you lose access to the others. Bill was willing to play the game to get a few but like you said....Kansas was easier. Plus he could just add an assistant like Jerrance Howard cherry pick Chicago when they want someone and the price isn't unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: Recruiting is surprisingly difficult at Illinois. 3-4 different groups of people in the state and 2 in the city. Piss off the one and you lose access to the others. Bill was willing to play the game to get a few but like you said....Kansas was easier. Plus he could just add an assistant like Jerrance Howard cherry pick Chicago when they want someone and the price isn't unreasonable. What is talent like outside of the big cities? I just cant see alot those little towns in the middle and southern illinois produce the way they do in indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: What is talent like outside of the big cities? I just cant see alot those little towns in the middle and southern illinois produce the way they do in indiana. They don't....but the whole Chicago vs South of I80 debate has been going on since Abe was in the White House. I lived on both sides of that coin. Kidding aside....Peoria used to be a pipeline when the city was actually vibrant. Couple other players here and there...but mainly it's Chicago (City and Burbs). Their last greatest downstate guy was Mark Smith who was Mr. Illinois. Underwood landed him his first 2 months on the job and subsequently transferred after 1 year to rival Missouri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 41 minutes ago, IDontWannaLargeFarva2 said: I'm not sure it's that simple, we're a Blue Blood after all. Roy recruited well but certainly not to the level of Self. Wow...you need to go look at some of the rosters Williams had at KU...Paul Pierce, Raef LaFrentz, Drew Gooden, Nick Collison, Keith Langford... 4 of the top 10 all time KU scorers were Roy Williams recruits and he had 2 National players of the year (Gooden, Collison)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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