Jump to content

PU vs IU


Payday

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Payday said:

3AM and still not sleeping so........

The most important issues for the team going forward:

QB position needs supporting bringing in graduate transfer or juco to give starter backup. There could be some surprises coming and they need to protect against them.

offensive playbook has to go. No reverses, no misdirection, no delayed draws, qb is always in shotgun, it is just too vanilla. Deborg or not, this playbook has to go. I have seen some high schools with more creativity. After yesterday I’m not sure how they spent all that practice time on offense. 

RB has to beef up. Ellison and Gest can be real, but they needed another year in the weight room and Redding leaving caught them off guard.

DC has to be hired. Allen is a good coach but you can’t be a head coach and DC. Put the DC upstairs where he can see from above and the HC can take a more overseeing approach. He gets too emotional as the DC and it hurts the team. That is not his role anymore. Wilson shot himself in the foot the same way by having an OC but refusing to let him do anything. Before the bowl game last year I asked the then OC how many games he had actually called and was told he had not called any plays, much less games.

I am optimistic that they got enough young defensive players some experience this year and the losses will have less impact. Offense is going to have to be more running qb style because we lose Luke, Ian, and Simmie along with a few other receivers. But Mack, Waterboy the TE(who is a good kid and player) and some of the other youngsters look good and will be very good by mid season.

other than that, we just need to use the big ten association to keep recruiting taller and faster players we can bring in the program and beef up. Right now we aren’t going to always out recruit Ohio, Wisconsin, MS, UM, and a couple of others so act like real coaches and develope players by recruiting frames you can develope and put muscle on them. Go for the taller frames with good athletic ability. A five star player is only a five star till the end of his sophomore year. At that point those leaner two and three star players have been at the table and weight room beefing up. Stars don’t mean a thing after the sophomore year if the coaches are doing their jobs.

On the season, first year coaches make mistakes. Self interest or not, I think if you stay with Richard you beat Virginia anyway(you have to remember there were four dropped passes in the first quarter before he was benched and I believe they would have woken up by halftime), have a shot at beating MS for the second time in a row, Michigan is not out of the question, and you easily beat Maryland. Even if you don’t win either of the MS/UM you beat Maryland and are bowling. First year coaches micro manage, they panicked when they should stay the course. It is just a natural process. PU flip flopped at qb till Blough got hurt. It is just a side effect of being a First or second year coach. I told Richard after the Ohio game that this was coming, who else do you explain running a replacement qb onto the field against Ohio while we had the momentum of having scored, and told him he would be back. I thought it would be before the Maryland game, but it was fairly close to accurate. But that growing year is behind the program now and make no mistake about it, THE IU FOOTBALL PROGRAM IS THE BEST JOB IN THE BIG TEN TO MAKE A NAME AND HAS THE EASIEST AND MOST ATTRACTIVE OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE UP DRASTICALLY! The bizarre issue with Wilson set things back a little, but even with everything that happened this year if we could have stopped the run yesterday, or slowed it down, this team was headed to a bowl. Yes we gave up a TE on an unexplainable int, but they gave it right back on a fumble so we are dead even at that point. We had two ted throws called back and those drives died with no points. I have seen very few teams over the years give up 280 yards in rushing and still win. It eats up too much of the clock. So, new coach, qb changes, heartbreaking losses to MS, UM, Maryland, and we still had a group of kids fight to the end. You think the offense issues and coaching concerns impact the fans, you should think about what it does to a bunch of players busting their asses. And they refused to quit.......a lot of teams would have and we see it all the time.

Richard may be moving on but this program is part of one of the most beautiful college campuses in America, it is a perfect size town where you would feel comfortable sending your kids, the school is great, there are just too many positives and the program has all the ingredients to flourish. But in order to grow we have to do it the old fashioned way of developing players and quit worrying about stars and other noise.

Can you please elaborate on your all caps comment? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Payday said:

3AM and still not sleeping so........

The most important issues for the team going forward:

QB position needs supporting bringing in graduate transfer or juco to give starter backup. There could be some surprises coming and they need to protect against them.

offensive playbook has to go. No reverses, no misdirection, no delayed draws, qb is always in shotgun, it is just too vanilla. Deborg or not, this playbook has to go. I have seen some high schools with more creativity. After yesterday I’m not sure how they spent all that practice time on offense. 

RB has to beef up. Ellison and Gest can be real, but they needed another year in the weight room and Redding leaving caught them off guard.

DC has to be hired. Allen is a good coach but you can’t be a head coach and DC. Put the DC upstairs where he can see from above and the HC can take a more overseeing approach. He gets too emotional as the DC and it hurts the team. That is not his role anymore. Wilson shot himself in the foot the same way by having an OC but refusing to let him do anything. Before the bowl game last year I asked the then OC how many games he had actually called and was told he had not called any plays, much less games.

I am optimistic that they got enough young defensive players some experience this year and the losses will have less impact. Offense is going to have to be more running qb style because we lose Luke, Ian, and Simmie along with a few other receivers. But Mack, Waterboy the TE(who is a good kid and player) and some of the other youngsters look good and will be very good by mid season.

other than that, we just need to use the big ten association to keep recruiting taller and faster players we can bring in the program and beef up. Right now we aren’t going to always out recruit Ohio, Wisconsin, MS, UM, and a couple of others so act like real coaches and develope players by recruiting frames you can develope and put muscle on them. Go for the taller frames with good athletic ability. A five star player is only a five star till the end of his sophomore year. At that point those leaner two and three star players have been at the table and weight room beefing up. Stars don’t mean a thing after the sophomore year if the coaches are doing their jobs.

On the season, first year coaches make mistakes. Self interest or not, I think if you stay with Richard you beat Virginia anyway(you have to remember there were four dropped passes in the first quarter before he was benched and I believe they would have woken up by halftime), have a shot at beating MS for the second time in a row, Michigan is not out of the question, and you easily beat Maryland. Even if you don’t win either of the MS/UM you beat Maryland and are bowling. First year coaches micro manage, they panicked when they should stay the course. It is just a natural process. PU flip flopped at qb till Blough got hurt. It is just a side effect of being a First or second year coach. I told Richard after the Ohio game that this was coming, who else do you explain running a replacement qb onto the field against Ohio while we had the momentum of having scored, and told him he would be back. I thought it would be before the Maryland game, but it was fairly close to accurate. But that growing year is behind the program now and make no mistake about it, THE IU FOOTBALL PROGRAM IS THE BEST JOB IN THE BIG TEN TO MAKE A NAME AND HAS THE EASIEST AND MOST ATTRACTIVE OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE UP DRASTICALLY! The bizarre issue with Wilson set things back a little, but even with everything that happened this year if we could have stopped the run yesterday, or slowed it down, this team was headed to a bowl. Yes we gave up a TE on an unexplainable int, but they gave it right back on a fumble so we are dead even at that point. We had two ted throws called back and those drives died with no points. I have seen very few teams over the years give up 280 yards in rushing and still win. It eats up too much of the clock. So, new coach, qb changes, heartbreaking losses to MS, UM, Maryland, and we still had a group of kids fight to the end. You think the offense issues and coaching concerns impact the fans, you should think about what it does to a bunch of players busting their asses. And they refused to quit.......a lot of teams would have and we see it all the time.

Richard may be moving on but this program is part of one of the most beautiful college campuses in America, it is a perfect size town where you would feel comfortable sending your kids, the school is great, there are just too many positives and the program has all the ingredients to flourish. But in order to grow we have to do it the old fashioned way of developing players and quit worrying about stars and other noise.

Awesome post. Glad you've stayed here through the ups and downs this year!  A few points on what you said.

It will be an interesting QB battle next year.  Ramsey was only a RS Freshman, so he's got a lot of growth left to happen.  Tronti is very intriguing, and word on the street is that Reese Taylor will start out at QB when he gets here...as long as we can keep him!  He went 18-22 for 340 yards and 6 touchdowns in yesterday's state championship game.  Rushed for another 131 yards and 2 touchdowns.  Size is an issue, but he's basically the same size as Randle El.  Will be interesting to see what he brings to the table.  I just hope we can get him to signing day.

Our offensive playbook was a disaster.  Run up the middle, throw, throw, punt.  There was zero creativity.  A new OC would make everyone on the offense look better.  Easy to defend when there are only about 5 plays we ever ran.  Let's hope he retires.

Redding leaving was the biggest offseason blow to the team.  I liked the way Gest runs.  If we can get a little more creativity, him and Ellison can be a good compliment.  Ronnie Walker will have a shot to work his way in as a freshman too.

I'm 50/50 on whether or not I want a full time DC.  Allen is an excellent defensive coach, so I am all for it if we can bring in a good DC.  If we bring in an average one, I'm not sure it will be any help.  It would likely free up more time for Allen to focus on other things which would be good.

I really think our defense will be alright.  There is some good young talent on that side.  Losing Ball at husky was a huge loss this year.  Having him back will make a big difference.  I'm really excited about our receiving group.  Assuming Cobbs leaves, we still have Westbrook and Hale coming back from injuries along with Mack and Whop.

Allen definitely had a couple growing pains his first year, but I think he's somebody who knows how to win at whatever he does.  I really think if we can get a good OC in here, we'll be seeing 7-8 wins a season, and sometimes more.  You're right about this job.  If somebody can come here and get us in the top 25 and competing and sometimes beating some of the big boys, top programs will come calling for you.

Best of luck moving forward!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Can you please elaborate on your all caps comment? 

Not to put words in his mouth, but I'm guessing he meant that if a coach can come into Indiana (aka, one of the traditionally worst Power 5 programs), and turn them into an 8+ win team, they'll have the big programs looking at them.  Our program is finally committed to being good, and with routinely playing the big boys, there are lots of chances to make a name for yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We can win here.  We are like the polar opposite of Notre Dame.  Look at what Brey has done in South Bend at a football school.  Digger Phelps did the same there.  Corso, Mallory, and even Wilson showed what we could get done and how competitive we could be on the gridiron.

Payday touched on something.  My job has taken me to several college campuses.  IU, by far, is the nicest one I have ever worked at.  And trust me, that is saying something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tremendous post, Payday — one of the most insightful I’ve seen in a long time.  

A few additional thoughts:

1.  I strongly question Hiller, the offensive line coach.  You saw a big drop off in performance after Greg Frey left.  They have a ton of young guys so I think this unit has a chance to really improve and actually be a strength of the team.  I’d be intrigued by this line:

LT Cronk

LG Martin

C Crider

RG Knight

RT Caleb Jones

off the bench:

C Littlejohn 

OG Nworah, Stepaniak

OT Baker, Stover

Redshirt Rafferty, he can be really good. 

But, can Hiller get the unit to play to its potential?  There were too many chop blocks and other penalties. And Cronk leveled off, if not regressed, without Frey.  We also need to get back to recruiting big time offensive linemen.  I hope Allen has somebody in his Rolodex that can improve this position.  It seemed like after Frey left, timing was bad, and Hiller was all we could get.  One plus now is that Allen has a month to really focus on upgrading his staff.  

2.  I’m eager to see Tronti.  I like Ramsey a lot but I wonder if he will ever have the arm power.  

3.  I’d start Whop Philyor day one next year in the slot.  The kid is an absolute weapon.  Timian is steady but Philyor is a difference maker.  He needs to be featured next year.  I think he becomes an impact player.  Maybe J-Shun Harris doesn’t give up either but he’s hard to think of as anything more than a bonus after a staggering three ACL’s.  

4.  If Ronnie Walker is as good as expected, he can be a major factor from the get-go.  Then, you have Ellison and Gest also getting carries.  I know I always mention him, but I have always been holding out hope on Natee.  He’s been too fat but if he gets it together, he could bludgeon people in the fourth quarter.  

5. Even if Cobbs goes pro, if you have a healthy Westbrook on one side and an emerging Taysir Mack on the other, that’s a nice combo of big wideouts on the outside. Then you bring Hale (who I think was able to redshirt) off the bench with size. Jonah Morris was highly recruited so maybe he makes a jump at some point.  The coaches apparently like Fryfogle.  

6.  Overall, if you analyze the offense, I think it has the potential to be very strong and well rounded over the next couple of years.  Allen needs to take a hard look and get some really bright and creative coaches who are rising.  Maybe give a promotion to some wunderkind from a high powered school.  I would get a new OC, bring in a DC, get a guy to turn around the specials, and get a new o line coach, and these guys need to be impact recruiters.  

7.  Defensively, we lose a lot when you look at guys like Scales, Fant, Hoff, Gooch and some others.  So, there will be a big adjustment.  On the D line, we have some next gen guys coming up.  If Harris gets in better shape, he can be an impact D tackle, but he needs to mature and get it together.  Jerome Johnson has shown a lot of promise at DT.  Minor is a young player who can make a jump.  At end, Nile Sykes comes back at end.  Jake Robinson played better this year.  We’ve got some young edge rushers coming up.  

8.  Marcelino Ball is one of the best players on the whole team, and he will help a ton after medically redshirting this year.  I’m curious where they play Fitzgerald because he’s an impact talent.  Linebacker worries me after losing Scales and Covington.  Some of our vets at linebacker like number 43 Willis do not inspire confidence to say the least.  Raekwon Jones has not distinguished himself either.  Mo Burnham is supposed to be a nice talent so let’s see where he is as a redshirt freshman.  But the safety and husky spots look like they can be very strong.  Burgess was a highly recruited safety out of Tampa.  I think we can some young missiles out there with these guys and a very experienced Crawford.  The loss of Fant is tough but Andre Brown, Riggins, Green, and company have been developing.  Raheem Layne is another who I thought flashed with aggressive play as a freshman.  

9.  I have to gather my thoughts on Allen.  He was a big drop off from Wilson and was a disappintment.  First, and all encompassing, his staff is below average and you have to wonder whether he can even develop a better staff?  Second, the team was not fundamentally sound   This is a reflection of his poor staff, but IU is not going to win games making the number of mistakes they’ve been making.  Third, Allen promised us good special teams and they really, really hurt us in key moments.  Allen suckered me on this front because he promised it would be better.  IU is not going to win unless they have strong special teams and play sound football. In both of those respects, Coach Allen let the fan base down.  He’s a young coach and we had to suffer thru his growing pains.  But, this year, Allen took over with Wilson,s players and he only won the games any of us could have won.  He lost every single 50-50 moment.  The Maryland loss was really bad.  I’m not giving up hope by any stretch but if this time next year, we are still getting beat on specials, making lots of mistakes, and losing all 50-50 moments, then you have to start looking at his buyout.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, hoopsta007 said:

Agree with almost your whole post! That being said do you have insight into the receivers because I think Simmie and Luke are both RS juniors and could return? I know Simmie may be NFL bound

My guess is Sim is leaving, Westbrook will be back if they don’t put him on special teams coverage, Waterboy(I assure you I say that with admiration because the kid could be that good) is going to be very good and replace Ian, but I don’t have any idea on Luke. He and Richard were at OkState together, they are fairly close, if he has a year left I would be surprised if he doesn’t return. Honestly, what Luke decides depends on who he is listening to and after witnessing Redding last year nothing will surprise me. I included Luke earlier because he and Richard have always been together and I wasn’t thinking that he had another year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...