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Reacher

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15 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Thanks for the link. The University of Colorado announced their instructions yesterday.  Which mandates everyone on campus to wear a mask.  Unless I over looked it, surprised IU is not mandating that as well.

CU Boulder announces plans for fall semester amid coronavirus 

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News reporter criticizing folks in Wisconsin for not wearing masks.  Guy in Packers jersey walks into the picture and tells the world the cameraman isn't wearing a mask.   Now, I think people should be wearing masks, but for the media to go out of their way to bash people but not even make their off air staff wear a mask just makes me shake my head.

 

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Here is my take,  me and Thomas Jefferson would be very good friends, protect your individual liberty, but dont be a dick, part of individual liberty is having respect for your fellow Americans.  I'm not really sure if the face masks are effective, but I wear one because other people, especially elderly appreciate the effort.  That is all.

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12 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

People need to understand that nothing has really changed.

We don't have a vaccine, the virus has not gone away. I also am for phasing back to work etc. -- but what is "normal" now? 

People running around without masks are just stupid. It's cavalier, and just plain dumb. I absolutely want us all working and going to school again, this drawn-out situation has been devastating on so many levels. But the returns to work, to schools, etc. must be done safely, and the virus is still here. I don't know why some push back on that. I hope most will get it, and take precautions so that everyone can get on with life.

I think the most disgusting instance I saw this week (and there were plenty), in Dallas airport one of the courtesy people that push people around in wheelchairs, went by with an empty wheelchair, no sign of a mask. A little while later I saw him go by again pushing two people in wheelchairs. No mask on????? Man should be fired or worse, is all I can say!

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7 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

Here is my take,  me and Thomas Jefferson would be very good friends, protect your individual liberty, but dont be a dick, part of individual liberty is having respect for your fellow Americans.  I'm not really sure if the face masks are effective, but I wear one because other people, especially elderly appreciate the effort.  That is all.

I got bashed andhad a "friend" actually criticize my faith for pointing out that while out in public I noticed many people that were wearing a mask, constantly touching and readjusting them.  Technically,  their mask and hands are now contaminated and they go about touching product etc.  That is why some of the studies are saying the masks actually don't work or make matters worse.  

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48 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I got bashed andhad a "friend" actually criticize my faith for pointing out that while out in public I noticed many people that were wearing a mask, constantly touching and readjusting them.  Technically,  their mask and hands are now contaminated and they go about touching product etc.  That is why some of the studies are saying the masks actually don't work or make matters worse.  

I agree about the cross contamination with gloves for those reasons you mentioned.  I quit wearing them because of that reason. For the mask IMO it's just as much about not spreading it more so than protecting me.

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4 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

I got bashed andhad a "friend" actually criticize my faith for pointing out that while out in public I noticed many people that were wearing a mask, constantly touching and readjusting them.  Technically,  their mask and hands are now contaminated and they go about touching product etc.  That is why some of the studies are saying the masks actually don't work or make matters worse.  

I don't doubt that there are studies that cast doubt on the effectiveness of masks, but not that they will "make matters worse" in regards to COVID19. To make things more confusing, a lot of studies focus on using a mask for self-protection, not transmission prevention; and were completed before COVID19 was even a thing. I don't' believe there are any completed studies that actually test masks with COVID19. I was listening to a podcast that summarized many of these studies and there were a whole bunch of factors they are concentrating on: different types of masks, how well they filter a virus, etc., but none disputed the fact that masks decrease the projectile of airborne droplets, which is this virus's preferred method of transmission. 

But if you are concerned about contamination via touch, I think I'd rather have an asymptomatic person touch their face mask and then test the ripeness of an avocado that I ultimately pick out, rather than coughing directly on the avocado. (a completely unscientific assumption on my part 😀

Edited by tdhoosier
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56 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

But if you are concerned about contamination via touch, I think I'd rather have an asymptomatic person touch their face mask and then test the ripeness of an avocado that I ultimately pick out, rather than coughing directly on the avocado. (a completely an unscientific assumption on my part 😀

Damn avocados.  You can't trust them.  Now, canned pineapple.  There's a fruit you can trust.  :coffee:

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3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

I agree about the cross contamination with gloves for those reasons you mentioned.  I quit wearing them because of that reason. For the mask IMO it's just as much about not spreading it more so than protecting me.

That is exactly what the mask is for.  You might have the virus and don't even know it and you are spreading it to other people who might be more at risk.

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I thought this piece did a great job connecting some dots-

 

"There are four ways to categorize any given reality. It can be scary but not dangerous, scary and dangerous, dangerous but not scary, or not dangerous and not scary.

Clearly, COVID-19 ranks high on the scary scale. A Google news search on the virus brings up over 1.5 billion news results. To date, the virus has tragically killed nearly 100,000 people in the United States, and more lives will be lost. But on a scale of harmless to extremely dangerous, it would still fall into the category of slightly to mildly dangerous for most people, excluding the elderly and those with preexisting medical conditions.

In comparison, many have no idea that heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States, killing around 650,000 people every year, 54,000 per month, or approximately 200,000 people between February and mid-May of this year. This qualifies as extremely dangerous. But most people are not very frightened of it. A Google news search for heart disease brings up around 100 million results, under one-fifteenth the results of the COVID-19 search.

It's critical to be able to distinguish between fear and danger. Fear is an emotion, it's the risk that we perceive. As an emotion, it is often blind to the facts. For example, the chances of dying from a shark attack are minuscule, but the thought still crosses most people's minds when they play in the ocean. Danger is measurable, and in the case of sharks, the danger is low, even if fear is sometimes high.

According to CDC data, 81% of deaths from COVID-19 in the United States are people over 65 years old, most with preexisting conditions. If you add in 55-64-year-olds that number jumps to 93%. For those below age 55, preexisting conditions play a significant role, but the death rate is currently around 0.0022%, or one death per 45,000 people in this age range. Below 25 years old the fatality rate of COVID-19 is 0.00008%, or roughly one in 1.25 million, and yet we have shut down all schools and day-care centers, some never to open again! This makes it harder for mothers and fathers to remain employed.

All life is precious. No death should be ignored, but we have allowed our fear to move resources away from areas that are more dangerous, but less scary, to areas that are scary, but less dangerous. And herein lies the biggest problem.

Hospitals and doctors' offices have had to be much more selective in the people they are seeing, leaving beds open for COVID-19 patients and cutting out elective surgeries. According to Komodo, in the weeks following the first shelter-in-place orders, cervical cancer screenings were down 68%, cholesterol panels were down 67%, and the blood sugar tests to detect diabetes were off 65% nationally.

It doesn't stop there. The U.N. estimates that infant mortality rates could rise by hundreds of thousands in 2020 because of the global recession and diverted health care resources. Add in opioid addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence and other detrimental reactions from job loss and despair. It's tragic.

The benefits gained through this fear-based shutdown (if there really are any) have massively increased dangers in the both the short term and the long term. Every day that businesses are shuttered, and people remain unemployed or underemployed, the economic wounds grow more deadly. The loss of wealth is immense, and this will undermine the ability of nations around the world to deal with true dangers for decades to come, maybe forever."

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I just think most people feel more comfortable when out in public. They see others wearing a mask. I know I do...  Admitting that in over two months I have only ventured out once. 

Years back. When I saw people wearing masks in China.  I thought that was stupid.  Not any longer.

Thanks for indulging me on my thoughts.  Hoosier Sports Nation members are the best.

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If I were Target. Auto Zone. And the other businesses in that part of Minnesota.  That got looted or burned to the ground.  I would never open up again.  Those people that rioted last night don't deserve businesses like that.

Having said that.  Protest. Peacefully.  And ask.... why is not that police officer not arrested for murder ? 

Yeah. I know. Not Caronavirus related.   However, during this time.  Just had to get this off my chest.

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2 hours ago, Reacher said:

I thought this piece did a great job connecting some dots-

 

"There are four ways to categorize any given reality. It can be scary but not dangerous, scary and dangerous, dangerous but not scary, or not dangerous and not scary.

Clearly, COVID-19 ranks high on the scary scale. A Google news search on the virus brings up over 1.5 billion news results. To date, the virus has tragically killed nearly 100,000 people in the United States, and more lives will be lost. But on a scale of harmless to extremely dangerous, it would still fall into the category of slightly to mildly dangerous for most people, excluding the elderly and those with preexisting medical conditions.

In comparison, many have no idea that heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States, killing around 650,000 people every year, 54,000 per month, or approximately 200,000 people between February and mid-May of this year. This qualifies as extremely dangerous. But most people are not very frightened of it. A Google news search for heart disease brings up around 100 million results, under one-fifteenth the results of the COVID-19 search.

It's critical to be able to distinguish between fear and danger. Fear is an emotion, it's the risk that we perceive. As an emotion, it is often blind to the facts. For example, the chances of dying from a shark attack are minuscule, but the thought still crosses most people's minds when they play in the ocean. Danger is measurable, and in the case of sharks, the danger is low, even if fear is sometimes high.

According to CDC data, 81% of deaths from COVID-19 in the United States are people over 65 years old, most with preexisting conditions. If you add in 55-64-year-olds that number jumps to 93%. For those below age 55, preexisting conditions play a significant role, but the death rate is currently around 0.0022%, or one death per 45,000 people in this age range. Below 25 years old the fatality rate of COVID-19 is 0.00008%, or roughly one in 1.25 million, and yet we have shut down all schools and day-care centers, some never to open again! This makes it harder for mothers and fathers to remain employed.

All life is precious. No death should be ignored, but we have allowed our fear to move resources away from areas that are more dangerous, but less scary, to areas that are scary, but less dangerous. And herein lies the biggest problem.

Hospitals and doctors' offices have had to be much more selective in the people they are seeing, leaving beds open for COVID-19 patients and cutting out elective surgeries. According to Komodo, in the weeks following the first shelter-in-place orders, cervical cancer screenings were down 68%, cholesterol panels were down 67%, and the blood sugar tests to detect diabetes were off 65% nationally.

It doesn't stop there. The U.N. estimates that infant mortality rates could rise by hundreds of thousands in 2020 because of the global recession and diverted health care resources. Add in opioid addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence and other detrimental reactions from job loss and despair. It's tragic.

The benefits gained through this fear-based shutdown (if there really are any) have massively increased dangers in the both the short term and the long term. Every day that businesses are shuttered, and people remain unemployed or underemployed, the economic wounds grow more deadly. The loss of wealth is immense, and this will undermine the ability of nations around the world to deal with true dangers for decades to come, maybe forever."

This is all very good to put into perspective. I think there are a couple of factors to why react differently to something like heart disease. Not arguing either way...just diving into the human psyche. 

1. Hospitals are set-up to operate at capacity and capacity does not differ that much from year to year. If changes are needed, slow moving trends will help them prepare to meet the treatment demand. We know a certain percentage is needed for heart disease, some for cancer, some for accidents, etc. But when an unexpected pandemic hits like Corona, and there's a spike in hospitalizations that flirts with capacity numbers, people naturally fear if they get sick they won't be able to get treatment. We're fortunate that didn't happen here like it did in Italy. 

2. I think another thing that makes people uncomfortable is the lack of control. Heart disease is a slow moving threat. Many times, people are in control of their own fate by lifestyle choices they make and decrease or increase their chances of a longer life-span. It's much harder to control coronavirus and this makes us uneasy. Somebody can not 'give you' heart disease, but they can give you Coronavirus. 

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I mentioned this earlier in this thread.  Mrs. mile was misdiagnosed with having lupus many decades ago.  And the doctor put her on  hydroxchloroquine.  Despite the wrong diagnosis, the doctor  has kept Mrs. mile  on it for years. Never taking her off of it.  Been relatively inexpensive, all these years.   Today.... she went for a renewal.  And the price has more than doubled. 

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2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

This is all very good to put into perspective. I think there are a couple of factors to why react differently to something like heart disease. Not arguing either way...just diving into the human psyche. 

1. Hospitals are set-up to operate at capacity and capacity does not differ that much from year to year. If changes are needed, slow moving trends will help them prepare to meet the treatment demand. We know a certain percentage is needed for heart disease, some for cancer, some for accidents, etc. But when an unexpected pandemic hits like Corona, and there's a spike in hospitalizations that flirts with capacity numbers, people naturally fear if they get sick they won't be able to get treatment. We're fortunate that didn't happen here like it did in Italy. 

2. I think another thing that makes people uncomfortable is the lack of control. Heart disease is a slow moving threat. Many times, people are in control of their own fate by lifestyle choices they make and decrease or increase their chances of a longer life-span. It's much harder to control coronavirus and this makes us uneasy. Somebody can not 'give you' heart disease, but they can give you Coronavirus. 

Going to build on your excellent post! First hospital capacity.

Hospital’s typically lose money in ER. Too many uninsured use the ER as their sole medical resource with no intention of ever paying a bill! Case in point, I put up a semi friend in my house for several years, otherwise he would have been homeless! He would go to ER whenever the spirit came upon him or money for booze ran out so he didn’t have to go through the DT’s without drugs! Shortly before he left he did a mail forwarding to some fictitious PO Box in North Carolina I believe. He owed 10’s of thousands over the years! Elective surgery is where the money is at and with CV that’s not happening! My daughter was talking with her doctor while I was there about moving her up because her shoulder pain from torn cartilage  was getting worse! The doctor said maybe 2 months instead of 6 months?

On your second point all I can say is that maybe just maybe, people will start to revaluate their life choices because of CV! One can only hope!

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4 hours ago, milehiiu said:

If I were Target. Auto Zone. And the other businesses in that part of Minnesota.  That got looted or burned to the ground.  I would never open up again.  Those people that rioted last night don't deserve businesses like that.

Having said that.  Protest. Peacefully.  And ask.... why is not that police officer not arrested for murder ? 

Yeah. I know. Not Caronavirus related.   However, during this time.  Just had to get this off my chest.

I think murder would be hard to prove in court but something like involuntary manslaughter maybe?  There is a 9 minute long video of the incident.  Those turd cops have likely put honest cops lives in danger. 

Have never understood the mentality behind looting and rioting. 

Edited by mrflynn03
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31 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I think murder would be hard to prove in court but something like involuntary manslaughter maybe?  There is a 9 minute long video of the incident.  Those turd cops have likely put honest cops lives in danger. 

Have never understood the mentality behind looting and rioting. 

I am not an attorney. So I may not have used the proper term.  Having said that.... I still have a problem that the cop with his knee on the victim's neck, which resulted in death. Is still not behind bars. And the cops standing there, watching it happen are subject as well, IMHO.   If Minnesota is not going to do something about this. Then the federal government needs to step in. 

Again. Not coronovirus related.  However, the more I think of this, and the fact that no one has been charged is bothersome to me.

Oh by the way. Local tv is showing a protest over the death, beginning at the State Capitol in Denver.  I am ok the the protest.  Just hope it does not turn into a riot.

Edited by milehiiu
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13 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I don't doubt that there are studies that cast doubt on the effectiveness of masks, but not that they will "make matters worse" in regards to COVID19. To make things more confusing, a lot of studies focus on using a mask for self-protection, not transmission prevention; and were completed before COVID19 was even a thing. I don't' believe there are any completed studies that actually test masks with COVID19. I was listening to a podcast that summarized many of these studies and there were a whole bunch of factors they are concentrating on: different types of masks, how well they filter a virus, etc., but none disputed the fact that masks decrease the projectile of airborne droplets, which is this virus's preferred method of transmission. 

But if you are concerned about contamination via touch, I think I'd rather have an asymptomatic person touch their face mask and then test the ripeness of an avocado that I ultimately pick out, rather than coughing directly on the avocado. (a completely unscientific assumption on my part 😀

Right.  That seems to make sense.  

The point I'm trying to make.  I'm assuming many of these masks, being homemade and decorated, are being reused and sometimes worn all day.  Honestly, brutally honest, I've had the same mask for about 4 weeks.  It hasn't been cleaned.  It should be thrown in the trash, technically, after each and every use.  And here's the point.  Every time a dirty hand touches a mask, it now becomes contaminated and should be trashed.  But I guarantee I'm not the only one not 'properly' disinfecting my mask and reusing it.  Much less the nervous twitch touching and readjusting.  University of Minnesota released something.  Don't know how covid 19 specific it was, I'll have to double check.  

We go on known covid, HIV, and hepatitis patients,  sometimes daily, weekly, whatever.  When one of them tells us they have xyz, I don't reuse the gloves I touched them with.  I question if the mask, especially since the CDC couldn't make up their mind until the last 10 days about their effectiveness, is nothing more than, as Fauci said in March, "the illusion of safety," when in all actuality we are walking around wearing a 'contaminated' mask.  

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

Edited by NotIThatLives
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6 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I am not an attorney. So I may not have used the proper term.  Having said that.... I still have a problem that the cop with his knee on the victim's neck, which resulted in death. Is still not behind bars. And the cops standing there, watching it happen are subject as well, IMHO.   If Minnesota is not going to do something about this. Then the federal government needs to step in. 

Again. Not coronovirus related.  However, the more I think of this, and the fact that no one has been charged is bothersome to me.

Oh by the way. Local tv is showing a protest over the death, beginning at the State Capitol in Denver.  I am ok the the protest.  Just hope it does not turn into a riot.

Totally agree with you.  And the cops standing aside, surely one could have stepped in. They are all complicit.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/fbi-investigating-black-mans-death-after-video-shows-minneapolis-officer-kneeling-on-neck

The Feds are investigating so hopefully justice will be served.

Not trying to denigrate cops, because most are probably good people, but I know half my local city cops and sheriff deputies, and they aren't sending their best. 

 

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