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7 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I was just looking at Spain's trends and noticed on May 25th that they removed 1,915 deaths from their books.  Double counting?  Change in criteria?  In any event, much like Italy, this thing is definitely on the decline in Spain.  

 https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

 

 

As I have been saying all along. Don't put your faith in the death counts. Have already posted that Colorado admits they lumped every death due to the virus.  Then were forced to reduce the numbers.

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11 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Headline on CNN states 'Coronavirus cases SPIKE in DC'!.  I looked it up.  DC reported 56 new cases today.  One month ago, on May 1st, DC reported 335 new cases.  It's unbelievable the lengths the press will go to in order to misinform.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/district-of-columbia

DC reports cases based on the day patients report that they first experienced symptoms. So, if there's a spike it wouldn't be recognizable on the chart you linked to. At least not yet.

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14 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Headline on CNN states 'Coronavirus cases SPIKE in DC'!.  I looked it up.  DC reported 56 new cases today.  One month ago, on May 1st, DC reported 335 new cases.  It's unbelievable the lengths the press will go to in order to misinform.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/district-of-columbia

Spikes are determined by comparing the data to the previous iterations.  You appear to be comparing it to a peak. 

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

Spikes are determined by comparing the data to the previous iterations.  You appear to be comparing it to a peak. 

Okay.  I went for the general trend, but if you want to argue that, on May 28th, or only 3 days before yesterday, the number was 86. so again there is no 'spike'  The bottom line is if there are 55 cases on Monday and 56 cases on Tuesday, the media is going to call Tuesday a spike.  The 7 day, 14 day, and one month trends show cases going down in DC  The media simply wants to influence gullible people that only read headlines and nothing else.     

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More on 'spiking',  Indiana went from less than 300 new cases and 9 deaths yesterday to over 400 new cases and 55  46 deaths today.  However, you can't look at that and scream "SPIKE'.  Mondays are historically the lowest number of the week because many counties do not tabulate totals on Sunday, which is what gets reported on Monday.  Again, the 7, 14, and monthly trends show that the number of cases and deaths in Indiana are trending down.  Not a steep dip, but trending down nonetheless.  

 

Edit:  Just noticed the state's official death tally for today is 46.  Some of the COVID reporting sites like to include 'possible' deaths in the numbers, and the 55 I mentioned above comes from there.  For further comparison, the Indiana Department of health reports 2,022 total deaths, while the other site is reporting 2,197.  

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If something doubles overnight it most assuredly is a spike?  

In this case 3 day average about quadrupled. 

72, 86, 46

followed by 

199, 211, 226

Is a huge spike. 
 

You changing the argument. You criticized an article for being wrong. When in fact your own source says you just don’t know what you are talking about. 

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1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

If something doubles overnight it most assuredly is a spike?  

In this case 3 day average about quadrupled. 

72, 86, 46

followed by 

199, 211, 226

Is a huge spike. 
 

You changing the argument. You criticized an article for being wrong. When in fact your own source says you just don’t know what you are talking about. 

Where are your numbers coming from?

 

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District of Columbia COVID19 cases as reported by the New York Times today.  

Look at the graphing in the article.  Everything is trending down.  You can even hover and get the exact number for a day, Your numbers are simply not there.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/washington-dc-coronavirus-cases.html

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14 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

District of Columbia COVID19 cases as reported by the New York Times today.  

Look at the graphing in the article.  Everything is trending down.  You can even hover and get the exact number for a day, Your numbers are simply not there.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/washington-dc-coronavirus-cases.html

So, I didn't go back beyond this page regarding this subject on the trends/numbers.  Sorry.  I'm trying to see the point you guys are discussing.  What is it?  And don't get political.   😊

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8 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

So, I didn't go back beyond this page regarding this subject on the trends/numbers.  Sorry.  I'm trying to see the point you guys are discussing.  What is it?  And don't get political.   😊

My point all along is that the media is flaming the COVID story.  Multiple times I have questioned on here how/why they come up with these alarming headlines that are at best misleading and at worst right down false.  Yesterday's headline by CNN that claimed DC cases were spiking had no supporting statistics in the story.  I mean, absolutely, nothing.  So, I decided I would look at it myself.  Not only do I not see a spike, I see a clear trend of cases decreasing.  Not every day.  There are blips here and there.  But, the trend is clearly going down, not spiking.  So, I chose to call CNN out in the thread, as I have with other media outlets previously.

As far as where @Brass Cannon is getting his numbers, I'm not sure.  I have checked the University of Washington numbers that the government uses, the New York Times, and The DC Department of Health.  I can't find the numbers he is reporting anywhere.  

 

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33 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

District of Columbia COVID19 cases as reported by the New York Times today.  

Look at the graphing in the article.  Everything is trending down.  You can even hover and get the exact number for a day, Your numbers are simply not there.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/washington-dc-coronavirus-cases.html

Fouls, just a question. Why are you arguing, vociferously, that there isn't any kind of "spike" (however you want to define it), when things are opening back up, and nothing has changed? I'm not trying to be argumentative here (though admittedly, it's in my nature). I really don't get it. You know nothing has changed.

There is no vaccine. There is absolutely nothing -- nada, nothing, o, however you want to define it -- to indicate COVID has gone away. I mean, no one will say otherwise, because it's obvious fact. Rather, by ALL accounts, the social distancing, mask wearing etc. has reduced what otherwise would've been a worse situation.

But now things are opening back up, a whole bunch of people just aren't wearing masks, people are starting to gather in groups again (without getting into the protests). Of course the rate of COVID spread is going to go back up. Why would you think otherwise, or, really, why would you argue against any kind of spike? I don't get it.

Edit -- so as I was posting this you posted your point is to lambaste the media, for what you believe to be "flaming." OK. I disagree with your take (fwiw), but I still don't get the need to argue against any kind of spike when I think clearly cases are going to increase again until a vaccine is developed or something else happens to change the dynamic of this virus. It seems really counterproductive to me.

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

My point all along is that the media is flaming the COVID story.  Multiple times I have questioned on here how/why they come up with these alarming headlines that are at best misleading and at worst right down false.  Yesterday's headline by CNN that claimed DC cases were spiking had no supporting statistics in the story.  I mean, absolutely, nothing.  So, I decided I would look at it myself.  Not only do I not see a spike, I see a clear trend of cases decreasing.  Not every day.  There are blips here and there.  But, the trend is clearly going down, not spiking.  So, I chose to call CNN out in the thread, as I have with other media outlets previously.

As far as where @Brass Cannon is getting his numbers, I'm not sure.  I have checked the University of Washington numbers that the government uses, the New York Times, and The DC Department of Health.  I can't find the numbers he is reporting anywhere.  

 

So, you just want to make people aware of these headlines about the virus numbers that seem to be misleading.  And you're being challenged.  Thanks.   😊

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9 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Fouls, just a question. Why are you arguing, vociferously, that there isn't any kind of "spike" (however you want to define it), when things are opening back up, and nothing has changed? I'm not trying to be argumentative here (though admittedly, it's in my nature). I really don't get it. You know nothing has changed.

There is no vaccine. There is absolutely nothing -- nada, nothing, o, however you want to define it -- to indicate COVID has gone away. I mean, no one will say otherwise, because it's obvious fact. Rather, by ALL accounts, the social distancing, mask wearing etc. has reduced what otherwise would've been a worse situation.

But now things are opening back up, a whole bunch of people just aren't wearing masks, people are starting to gather in groups again (without getting into the protests). Of course the rate of COVID spread is going to go back up. Why would you think otherwise, or, really, why would you argue against any kind of spike? I don't get it.

Edit -- so as I was posting this you posted your point is to lambaste the media, for what you believe to be "flaming." OK. I disagree with your take (fwiw), but I still don't get the need to argue against any kind of spike when I think clearly cases are going to increase again until a vaccine is developed or something else happens to change the dynamic of this virus. It seems really counterproductive to me.

When/If we get the next spike, then it's fair game to talk about it.  But, it's not spiking in DC right now, the numbers say otherwise.  It's fine if you don't agree with me calling out the media, but wouldn't the world be a better place without fake news?

As far as things opening up, hey I hear you.  I wear a mask every time I go out.  I get mad at people that aren't.  I carry hand sanitizer in the car.  I wash my hands multiple times an hour when I'm awake.  When I voted in the Indiana primary today, I stayed 6 feet away from others at the poll.  I am in no way promoting that we start having huge public orgies.  All I am asking is that the media give me a fair representation of what is going on so I don't have to figure it out for myself.  

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23 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

When/If we get the next spike, then it's fair game to talk about it.  But, it's not spiking in DC right now, the numbers say otherwise.  It's fine if you don't agree with me calling out the media, but wouldn't the world be a better place without fake news?

As far as things opening up, hey I hear you.  I wear a mask every time I go out.  I get mad at people that aren't.  I carry hand sanitizer in the car.  I wash my hands multiple times an hour when I'm awake.  When I voted in the Indiana primary today, I stayed 6 feet away from others at the poll.  I am in no way promoting that we start having huge public orgies.  All I am asking is that the media give me a fair representation of what is going on so I don't have to figure it out for myself.  

OK. I don't buy into the 'fake news' stuff (and it's largely a politically driven message, so let's not go there), and I don't agree with your take on the media fudging numbers, it's pretty clear the numbers are going back up (in whatever degree), which, of course, should be expected as the rules on stay home/work safe, social distancing, etc. are being relaxed or given mixed messages from state and local governments/counties/cities and people start gathering again.

But I understand and agree with what I think your overall point is, that the news should not be  sensationalizing COVID, you know, for ratings, etc. Unfortunately, we live now in this silly 24-7 news cycle world where news is now often not news but entertainment.

Anyway, I was one who really questioned this reaction to COVID at the beginning. I did that pretty strongly. I was wrong. COVID is serious. I'm still very concerned about the long-term economic fallout (and immediate losses of jobs etc.), and I do want people getting back to work and hello, basketball, but man we need to do this right.

I wear a mask every time I go out, I 'social distance,' and our firm has all kinds of measures in place for when we are back in office (mostly still working remotely). We have dividers up between secretarial stations, we deep clean the offices regularly, anyone in the hall or a common area has to be wearing a mask, etc. But meanwhile I stop at my local coffee shop to grab a coffee and a whole bunch of people, every day, are now sitting around tables outside with no masks on. It's really stupid. I hope we get to a vaccine or something similar sooner rather than later.

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3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

OK. I don't buy into the 'fake news' stuff (and it's largely a politically driven message, so let's not go there), and I don't agree with your take on the media fudging numbers, it's pretty clear the numbers are going back up (in whatever degree), which, of course, should be expected as the rules on stay home/work safe, social distancing, etc. are being relaxed or given mixed messages from state and local governments/counties/cities and people start gathering again.

But I understand and agree with what I think your overall point is, that the news should not be  sensationalizing COVID, you know, for ratings, etc. Unfortunately, we live now in this silly 24-7 news cycle world where news is now often not news but entertainment.

Anyway, I was one who really questioned this reaction to COVID at the beginning. I did that pretty strongly. I was wrong. COVID is serious. I'm still very concerned about the long-term economic fallout (and immediate losses of jobs etc.), and I do want people getting back to work and hello, basketball, but man we need to do this right.

I wear a mask every time I go out, I 'social distance,' and our firm has all kinds of measures in place for when we are back in office (mostly still working remotely). We have dividers up between secretarial stations, we deep clean the offices regularly, anyone in the hall or a common area has to be wearing a mask, etc. But meanwhile I stop at my local coffee shop to grab a coffee and a whole bunch of people, every day, are now sitting around tables outside with no masks on. It's really stupid. I hope we get to a vaccine or something similar sooner rather than later.

I never said CNN fudged numbers, because they did not provide any.  Why have a shrill headline that alludes to a something numeric and then not provide actual numbers to support the argument?  Instead of numbers, let's say they fudged words.  

One of the workers at the polling place I went to today did not have a mask.  Younger guy.  I wanted to punch him in the face, thinking about how many people he could have exposed today if he had the virus.  

 

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Just now, 5fouls said:

I never said CNN fudged numbers, because they did not provide any.  Why have a shrill headline that alludes to a something numeric and then not provide actual numbers to support the argument?  Instead of numbers, let's say they fudged words.  

One of the workers at the polling place I went to today did not have a mask.  Younger guy.  I wanted to punch him in the face, thinking about how many people he could have exposed today if he had the virus.  

 

Lol on the punch. And no argument on the shrill stuff. There's definite sensationalizing going on, that's, unfortunately, what news has become or is still becoming generally. A 24-7 business with the death of the newspaper and the rise of 24-7 sensationalizing. All that said, people keep ignoring the reality of the virus and cases increase as people mingle more. 

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6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes they are. There are numerous papers, sites etc. reporting increased cases including here in Houston. Do you really buy into no increased cases? Geesh.

I think one thing that can be very misleading is looking at 'active' cases instead of new cases.  According to the official numbers for Harris County, Texas, new cases peaked in mid-May (check out the graph in link). Most of those cases would still be considered active because they have not cycled through the normal recovery period.  However, the number of daily new cases since May 19th has trended down.  Once that spike in mid May cycles through, it's quite likely that total cases will begin to go down as well (pending the impacts of re-opening).  

https://publichealth.harriscountytx.gov/Resources/2019-Novel-Coronavirus

 

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5 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

Houston isn't the entire country. The USA as a whole has fewer and fewer cases almost daily. 

 

Really just not accurate my friend. Part of the deal here is you can't get a measure of deaths which take time, and new reported cases are still hard to track, but there are all kinds of reports out there of increased hospitalizations, cases, etc. for COVID over the past month or few weeks or longer. 

so Houston or Texas isn't the whole country. OK. but here you go

Coronavirus cases by county in the Houston region: https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1586634/?utm_source=showcase&utm_campaign=visualisation/1586634

New Corona cases in Texas by date, from 3/18 to 6/1 -- clear "spiked" 5/27 and 6/1 and more than ever before. https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1691394/?utm_source=showcase&utm_campaign=visualisation/1691394

I don't get why people want to ignore reality. Of course cases go up as the rules get relaxed. It's just common sense. You can't pull up a few stats and think that -- for no reason whatsover -- the cases are going away. There's no reason, whatsoever, to think COVID is just going to go away, or that it won't increase again when people stop social distancing and protective measures before there is any vaccine etc. to actually do something about the virus. 

 

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11 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I think one thing that can be very misleading is looking at 'active' cases instead of new cases.  According to the official numbers for Harris County, Texas, new cases peaked in mid-May (check out the graph in link). Most of those cases would still be considered active because they have not cycled through the normal recovery period.  However, the number of daily new cases since May 19th has trended down.  Once that spike in mid May cycles through, it's quite likely that total cases will begin to go down as well (pending the impacts of re-opening).  

https://publichealth.harriscountytx.gov/Resources/2019-Novel-Coronavirus

 

Nope. See the links I just posted above.

But again my overall point is, if we want to talk about what's misleading, it's extremely misleading to try to tout that COVID is just going away. Of course it isn't. There's zero reason to believe it will, when stupid people do their stupid things -- running back into swim parties, restaurants, etc. without masks. 

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5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Nope. See the links I just posted above.

Your link shows a graph for the entire state of Texas.  Mine was specific to Harris County.  That said, if the Department of Health told me the number was 10 and the Houston Chronicle told me it was 20, I would run with the number provided by the Department of Health.  

Edit:  Your other graph is total cases, not new ones.  And, I already explained how that can be misleading because of the length of tim it takes to recover.  

 

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

Your link shows a graph for the entire state of Texas.  Mine was specific to Harris County.  That said, if the Department of Health told me the number was 10 and the Houston Chronicle told me it was 20, I would run with the number provided by the Department of Health.  

The link immediately above the state of Texas is Harris County and the surrounding counties of Houston. I don't know why you want to argue this. I really don't. It's like you want to dig your head in the sand. 

Regardless, instead of just saying your wrong (though I think you pretty clearly are) that's not my point. Again, I hope you don't actually think COVID will just happily go down/away when there's obviously no vaccine or remedy yet, and people go back to social gathering. If you do, I have a bridge to sell you in New York. But I trust you don't, because that would be complete nonsense. 

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