Coronavirus

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

I would have liked to have seen us do the following:

Taking the risk more seriously, earlier, and not calling it a hoax (this is not aimed at anyone in particular, as plenty of leaders from both sides did this - looking at you though Deblasio!)

Pushing masks earlier and leaders setting good examples of mask usage

Serious lockdowns instituted as needed - and stick with them

Real economic relief for those pushed out of work b/c of said lockdowns

More testing earlier, more supplies earlier, more contact tracing

That's just a start for me personally.

You bring up a good point about resources being unused as well. Isn't it better to push for more resources or to be over-prepared instead of the opposite? I would much rather err on doing too much or having too much than the opposite. But also aware that resources are finite.

Sorry, I mean all of us - leaders and not. I didn't really mean it to be political, but I will admit to being flummoxed why people expend so much effort on minimizing this.

Yep, @IUFLA and I are cool. We know where we stand and respect each other's opinions.

To me at first if we had a total country lockdown for at least 6 weeks would really help.

[dbmhoosier]

25 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Guys, you’re starting to move back into politics - “as a country” seems like a euphemism for the Trump administration’s handling of the virus — don’t go there, from either “side.” Again, this is not a board for your politics. 

What is clear, leaving the government’s handling out of this discussion, is that Covid is again spreading / spiking at alarming and record - setting rates in multiple states, including cases, hospitalizations, deaths, really every metric.
That is not a matter of honest debate, and personally I find it idiotic and self-defeating to try to argue otherwise, if anyone actually is. The reality is Covid has exploded, again, months after it started here. Over 15,000 new daily cases in Florida, Texas having daily records multiple times in the same week with around 11,000 cases a day, significantly increased hospitalizations, increased death rates, decreasing hospital bed availability, the Governor considering a state-wide lockdown, AZ in bad shape, etc.  All of that is simply reality. I think most agree we need to get back to and continue health measures to reduce / curtail the renewed spread of the virus.

Well that's funny.  Reading through this thread there's probably only one person who I can tell by his posts which way he leans politically. Hmm...

[IUFLA]

11 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

I would have liked to have seen us do the following:

Taking the risk more seriously, earlier, and not calling it a hoax (this is not aimed at anyone in particular, as plenty of leaders from both sides did this - looking at you though Deblasio!)

Pushing masks earlier and leaders setting good examples of mask usage

Serious lockdowns instituted as needed - and stick with them

Real economic relief for those pushed out of work b/c of said lockdowns

More testing earlier, more supplies earlier, more contact tracing

That's just a start for me personally.

You bring up a good point about resources being unused as well. Isn't it better to push for more resources or to be over-prepared instead of the opposite? I would much rather err on doing too much or having too much than the opposite. But also aware that resources are finite.

Yep, @IUFLA and I are cool. We know where we stand and respect each other's opinions.

Thanks. And I agree with pretty much all of those steps. I do think lockdowns in areas before it was a problem in those areas may have caused quite an uproar. I think we see today that in the areas that are getting hit hard, people are taking it more seriously. When I go into Tractor Supply in Porter, Texas and 100% of the customers have masks on, that is taking it seriously.

8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I'll take a stab at it. These are some things that I'd personally like to see from here on out: 

States completely ignored the federal government's suggestions and opened up early. Look at the position those states are in now. I feel at the very least we should learn from this. Don't necessarily need to point fingers, but learn and plan accordingly.

Put as many resources behind testing as possible. Testing quickly and accurately is the key to contact tracing. Contact tracing (*that keeps privacy intact) should be the number one goal for this country because it allows the economy to re-open safely and almost completely. This goal should be as clear and as widespread as 'we are putting a man on the moon'. A contact tracing program should be ready to go, the second the testing is able to accommodate it. 

Just like many school systems are doing, put a 3 tiered plan into place, county by county, nationwide: Green (safe), Orange (take precautions), Red (dangerous). This way Santa Clause, Indiana isn't shutting things down based on numbers in Houston. Not only is this clear, it gives communities incentives to keep their spread lower. If in 'green' kids can go to school, we can go to the gym, eat outside at restaurants, etc. If a county slips to orange then extra precautions will need to be taken, but there will at least be an incentive to get things back to 'green'. I really feel like this would unite communities, get more people involved locally and keep R under control. 

The other things i can't say or @Hoosierhoopster will make me sit in the corner. 😀    I'm happy to PM you though @IUFLA.

All good points...I especially think the tiered system is a great idea. I'd be happy to hear your other points as well.

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me at first if we had a total country lockdown for at least 6 weeks would really help.

As I said to @Lostin76, I think that may have been problematic. When NYC was bearing the brunt, down here in Texas they would have pretty much ignored any "total lockdown."

And what would a "total lockdown" look like anyway? Cops pulling over any car they saw out and about? Not sure how "total" a lockdown could be without resorting to tactics like the Chinese took...and I want no part of that...

They did have a "stay at home" order that was widely panned. When they shut the restaurants, bars, and most retail stores down, that made a difference, but the grocery stores were still flooded.

[mrflynn03]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Thanks. And I agree with pretty much all of those steps. I do think lockdowns in areas before it was a problem in those areas may have caused quite an uproar. I think we see today that in the areas that are getting hit hard, people are taking it more seriously. When I go into Tractor Supply in Porter, Texas and 100% of the customers have masks on, that is taking it seriously.

All good points...I especially think the tiered system is a great idea. I'd be happy to hear your other points as well.

As I said to @Lostin76, I think that may have been problematic. When NYC was bearing the brunt, down here in Texas they would have pretty much ignored any "total lockdown."

And what would a "total lockdown" look like anyway? Cops pulling over any car they saw out and about? Not sure how "total" a lockdown could be without resorting to tactics like the Chinese took...and I want no part of that...

They did have a "stay at home" order that was widely panned. When they shut the restaurants, bars, and most retail stores down, that made a difference, but the grocery stores were still flooded.

Stopping food production for 6 weeks would be devastating on so many levels. 

[milehiiu]

The Cherry Creek School system, in Colorado, where I live is asking parents to decide by Friday of this week. Either allow students back in school.... or have them take on line classes for the upcoming school year.  And in either case... parents cannot change their decision.   My question : what about the older teachers ?  Do they get a choice as well?

[Reacher]

2 hours ago, Reacher said:

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-hospitals-confirm-mistakes-in-floridas-covid-19-report

 

47 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

What is clear, leaving the government’s handling out of this discussion, is that Covid is again spreading / spiking at alarming and record - setting rates in multiple states, including cases, hospitalizations, deaths, really every metric.
That is not a matter of honest debate, and personally I find it idiotic and self-defeating to try to argue otherwise, if anyone actually is. The reality is Covid has exploded, again, months after it started here. Over 15,000 new daily cases in Florida, Texas having daily records multiple times in the same week with around 11,000 cases a day, significantly increased hospitalizations, increased death rates, decreasing hospital bed availability, the Governor considering a state-wide lockdown, AZ in bad shape, etc.  All of that is simply reality. I think most agree we need to get back to and continue health measures to reduce / curtail the renewed spread of the virus.

It is not clear there were 15,000 new cases in FL. See the link above. Not sure that is reality. 

It is resurging in many areas. IL is picking back up. Part of that is to be expected with greater interactions, part due to people getting careless. 

Picked up an anecdotal story from a client today. Someone they knew was going to go for a test. They registered but the lines were too long and they left to go back another time. The next day they were informed they tested positive despite no test being done. 

This type of thing is happening all over and why there is so much distrust of the data- which is being used to affect peoples lives. Maybe the tests aren't accurate. Maybe it honest mistakes, too much bureaucracy, or out right fraud.  Probably a combination of all of the above.

[Hoosierhoopster]

35 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Well that's funny.  Reading through this thread there's probably only one person who I can tell by his posts which way he leans politically. Hmm...

Knock it off 

[Reacher]

6 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

The Cherry Creek School system, in Colorado, where I live is asking parents to decide by Friday of this week. Either allow students back in school.... or have them take on line classes for the upcoming school year.  And in either case... parents cannot change their decision.   My question : what about the older teachers ?  Do they get a choice as well?

They should. I'm sure it will vary by locality. I know places where older teachers will be given options. My brother in law is a HS teacher (mid 50s with some health issues), my neighbor is a teacher and recently had a Chicago public school teacher over for socially distant drinks on the patio. The CPS teacher said they weren't prepared and the students literally vanished and never checked in. They all knew they were going to pass. Like many things, Virtual classes are likely to hit the poorest the hardest. They benefit the most from the meals, social services etc vs the upper end schools where most are proficient working online and have parents that can pay for tutors to make up for any missed education.  Really hurts seeing LA announcing their closure knowing so many kids are likely to suffer greatly.  

[milehiiu]

4 minutes ago, Reacher said:

They should. I'm sure it will vary by locality. I know places where older teachers will be given options. My brother in law is a HS teacher (mid 50s with some health issues), my neighbor is a teacher and recently had a Chicago public school teacher over for socially distant drinks on the patio. The CPS teacher said they weren't prepared and the students literally vanished and never checked in. They all knew they were going to pass. Like many things, Virtual classes are likely to hit the poorest the hardest. They benefit the most from the meals, social services etc vs the upper end schools where most are proficient working online and have parents that can pay for tutors to make up for any missed education.  Really hurts seeing LA announcing their closure knowing so many kids are likely to suffer greatly.  

Thanks for your reply.  Agree... something needs to be worked out for older teachers.

You also mentioned meals.  Here is what our school district is doing in terms of that :

Food & Nutrition / FREE Summer Meals Program

[Hoosierhoopster]

56 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

There was nothing political, from my view, in either @Lostin76 or my post. He and I have talked, and we pretty much know where each other stand. I respect his view of the world, and I think he respects mine.

That said, he is in hospital administration, and I thought maybe he had a greater insight in the area of what could/should have been done than I do. He deals with it every day I assume, just as any thing aviation related I'd have insight on...

Just trying to leverage his knowledge...

When you get into what we “should have done as a country” it leads back into attempted discussion of Administration polices or lack of policies and related. There had clearly been a heavy lean earlier on the discussion of Covid driven by people’s politics (either “side”). The mods have posted that’s not going to fly here.
 

My post is a reminder before we have to — again - deal with deleting posts calling out particular politicians, name calling, political stump speech type BS, and deal with the countless private PM’s the mods have had to deal with relating to clearly politically backed or sourced tweets and “news” stories to fit agendas. You have no idea how bad it’s gotten for us mods —

keep ANY politics completely out of this topic.

[IUFLA]

Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

When you get into what we “should have done as a country” it leads back into attempted discussion of Administration polices or lack of policies and related. There had clearly been a heavy lean earlier on the discussion of Covid driven by people’s politics (either “side”). The mods have posted that’s not going to fly here.
 

My post is a reminder before we have to — again - deal with deleting posts calling out particular politicians, name calling, political stump speech type BS, and deal with the countless private PM’s the mods have had to deal with relating to clearly politically backed or sourced tweets and “news” stories to fit agendas. You have no idea how bad it’s gotten for us mods —

keep ANY politics completely out of this topic.

I think we're doing a pretty good job at that so far, don't you?

[Hoosierhoopster]

Just now, IUFLA said:

I think we're doing a pretty good job at that so far, don't you?

Why are you pushing back? I already answered your question above.

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Why are you pushing back? I already answered your question above.

Come on, HH...I wasn't "pushing back"  at all. 

As I said, I respect people who have a different viewpoint than my own. I thought the last page or so had some good, respectful dialogue. I didn't take @Lostin76 post about "as a country" as political at all.

I understand mods want to be prepared to put out fires, but there wasn't even an old cigarette butt here...

Edited July 14, 2020 by IUFLA

[Reacher]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I understand mods want to be prepared to put out fires, but there want even an old cigarette butt here...

Have to agree with this. 

[milehiiu]

Trust me.  It's not always being a mod.   Love you people.  Stay healthy and safe.

Edited July 14, 2020 by milehiiu

[IU Scott]

59 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Thanks. And I agree with pretty much all of those steps. I do think lockdowns in areas before it was a problem in those areas may have caused quite an uproar. I think we see today that in the areas that are getting hit hard, people are taking it more seriously. When I go into Tractor Supply in Porter, Texas and 100% of the customers have masks on, that is taking it seriously.

All good points...I especially think the tiered system is a great idea. I'd be happy to hear your other points as well.

As I said to @Lostin76, I think that may have been problematic. When NYC was bearing the brunt, down here in Texas they would have pretty much ignored any "total lockdown."

And what would a "total lockdown" look like anyway? Cops pulling over any car they saw out and about? Not sure how "total" a lockdown could be without resorting to tactics like the Chinese took...and I want no part of that...

They did have a "stay at home" order that was widely panned. When they shut the restaurants, bars, and most retail stores down, that made a difference, but the grocery stores were still flooded.

To me except for doctors, nurses, cops and fireman all other places should have been made to close. Some how the government could have out something in place to protect theses businesses that had to close.

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me except for doctors, nurses, cops and fireman all other places should have been made to close. Some how the government could have out something in place to protect theses businesses that had to close.

That's crazy Scott. What about air traffic controllers? Shut down the sky? That's just one example.

And how would people get food? I look in our pantry and freezer and I think we could hold out for 6 weeks, but we'd probably be down to all that crap my wife bought because it sounded cool (couscous anyone?).

Wouldn't work...

Edited July 14, 2020 by IUFLA

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

That's crazy Scott. What about air traffic controllers? Shut down the sky? That's just one example.

And how would people get food? I look in our pantry and freezer and I think we could hold out for 6 weeks, but we'd probably be down to all that crap my wife bought because it sounded cool (couscous anyone?).

Wouldn't work...

I would have shut down all travel

[IUFLA]

Just now, IU Scott said:

I would have shut down all travel

Not even feasible...

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Not even feasible...

Probably not but I think it would have the best solution to stop the virus.

 

 

 

[IU Scott]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Not even feasible...

Let me ask you this, would it have been better to inconvenient people for 6 weeks and possibly get things back to normal. Right now we are 4 months in and no end in sight.

[Reacher]

5 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Probably not but I think it would have the best solution to stop the virus.

Tow truck drivers to clear disabled vehicles from roads? Mechanics to keep vehicles of those Drs running?  Gas stations to fill said vehicles? City workers to clear storm debris? Garbage trucks to haul away waste? Just freeze the financial system and markets? And then all of the people in food production and distribution. 90% of household would be out of food in a week. You would have utter chaos on your hands. Or maybe something akin to China where they welded apartment complex doors shut only to reopen weeks late and take out the dead bodies. 

[Reacher]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Let me ask you this, would it have been better to inconvenient people for 6 weeks and possibly get things back to normal. Right now we are 4 months in and no end in sight.

You would be straight out killing people- not inconveniencing them. How about inconvenience people with masks and social distancing? Just need people to get behind that instead of the mass gatherings we now see. 

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Tow truck drivers to clear disabled vehicles from roads? Mechanics to keep vehicles of those Drs running?  Gas stations to fill said vehicles? City workers to clear storm debris? Garbage trucks to haul away waste? Just freeze the financial system and markets? And then all of the people in food production and distribution. 90% of household would be out of food in a week. You would have utter chaos on your hands. Or maybe something akin to China where they welded apartment complex doors shut only to reopen weeks late and take out the dead bodies. 

Well if everyone had to stay home there would be no drivers on the road

[IU Scott]

Just now, RoadToZion said:

Do any of you own a business? 

Ours has been fortunate enough to stay open this whole time. There's not a chance in hell I would shut down for 6 weeks and have to tell our 50+ employees that they can't work. Their lives would be ruined. 

P.S. We haven't had a positive test. There's ways to beat it. It's called common sense. 

True but obviously there is not much of that in this country