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Reacher

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29 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

CDC & FDA recommend a pause on the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.  This could set things back in regards to reaching herd immunity.  Both by a reduction in doses available and creating a reluctance to get vaccinated.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/13/health/johnson-vaccine-pause-cdc-fda/index.html

 

Hopefully I'm reading this correctly. 6 people out of 6.8M cases requires a pause???

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1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

Hopefully I'm reading this correctly. 6 people out of 6.8M cases requires a pause???

Yeah.  I kind of thought the same thing.  If those 6.8 million don't get vaccinated, a lot more than 6 of them would have contracted Covid.  And, those that did catch Covid would infect other people, and the cycle continues.

I mean, every drug commercial we see on TV warns of side effects that can cause illness or death.  The big picture on this one seems to indicate it would be more prudent to continue getting people vaccinated as quickly as possible.

 

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3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Yeah.  I kind of thought the same thing.  If those 6.8 million don't get vaccinated, a lot more than 6 of them would have contracted Covid.  And, those that did catch Covid would infect other people, and the cycle continues.

I mean, every drug commercial we see on TV warns of side effects that can cause illness or death.  The big picture on this one seems to indicate it would be more prudent to continue getting people vaccinated as quickly as possible.

 

I already got my J&J at the track couple weeks ago....if I hadn't I'd be calling out there today and say I'll gladly take one of those! 

6 out of 6.8M cases. SMH.

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1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

I already got my J&J at the track couple weeks ago....if I hadn't I'd be calling out there today and say I'll gladly take one of those! 

6 out of 6.8M cases. SMH.

I'm 32 days past my J&J vaccination.  And, would do it again.  That said, even if they reverse course and start allowing it again, this will cause many people to wait for one of the others, and Slow down the process of getting enough people vaccinated.  Heck, it may cause enough people to not get one at all, and result in us never getting to herd immunity.  

Edited by 5fouls
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1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

I already got my J&J at the track couple weeks ago....if I hadn't I'd be calling out there today and say I'll gladly take one of those! 

6 out of 6.8M cases. SMH.

I'm not trying to be argumentative with anybody, but it astonishes me that at this time people think the rollout was careless or the government is trying to push something dangerous. If halting it based on 6 out of 6.8M cases isn't being overly cautious then I don't know what is. More people get life threatening side effects from Tylenol. Of course I'm being facetious, but you know what i mean.  

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For those smarter regarding this sort of thing than me, I have a question for you.  Assuming this pause with J&J slows down vaccination process, and the virus continues to mutate, how much damage can be done?  Is it possible the virus could mutate to the point that the efficacy rate of the current vaccines start to decline significantly, or stop working all together?    

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4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

For those smarter regarding this sort of thing than me, I have a question for you.  Assuming this pause with J&J slows down vaccination process, and the virus continues to mutate, how much damage can be done?  Is it possible the virus could mutate to the point that the efficacy rate of the current vaccines start to decline significantly, or stop working all together?    

I don't have an answer to your points but simply put I'll say yes. To me the damage done (fear, delay,etc..) by pausing J&J is far greater than the pause for 6 cases out of 6.8 M. Knew 3 people who were on the fence about vaccine but finally decided to get one at track. Not doing it now. That's real damage.

Just unreal the level of stupidity they caused today by this pause.

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4 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative with anybody, but it astonishes me that at this time people think the rollout was careless or the government is trying to push something dangerous. If halting it based on 6 out of 6.8M cases isn't being overly cautious then I don't know what is. More people get life threatening side effects from Tylenol. Of course I'm being facetious, but you know what i mean.  

You and I have a better chance of getting run over by a car today. Mind boggling. I get people's opinions on vaccine or not. I'm not debating that part of it. I'm upset that they paused it with a .000001% chance of happening.....and only 1.8% have a chance of death if they contract Covid to begin with. 

 

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13 hours ago, 5fouls said:

For those smarter regarding this sort of thing than me, I have a question for you.  Assuming this pause with J&J slows down vaccination process, and the virus continues to mutate, how much damage can be done?  Is it possible the virus could mutate to the point that the efficacy rate of the current vaccines start to decline significantly, or stop working all together?    

I'm just a simpleton with a BS in Biology.  My current position has me working in QC in the production of the Moderna and J&J vaccines. 

To answer your question, respiratory viruses typically become less virulent over time. A virus needs a host to survive.  A virus is a single cell organism with one goal, to replicate.  Viruses mutate and weaken over time in able to survive, they dont want to kill their host.

Viral mutation is a normal part of the process. When you read about all these mutations and variants, it's to keep the fear and anxiety going. 

Covid will become endemic and eventually be like the flu and we will have an annual flu and covid shot.  

To put it simply, covid is real, the response is political bullshit.  Do you really think any of these elected losers know a thing about science. I doubt they could cook an egg. 

 

Edited by mrflynn03
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20 hours ago, 5fouls said:

For those smarter regarding this sort of thing than me, I have a question for you.  Assuming this pause with J&J slows down vaccination process, and the virus continues to mutate, how much damage can be done?  Is it possible the virus could mutate to the point that the efficacy rate of the current vaccines start to decline significantly, or stop working all together?    

At least from what I understand, we have enough vaccines to cover the suspension of J&J, but those obviously are 2 dose vaccines. So I’m guessing there is a minor delay for the people scheduled to get the J&J by 3-4 weeks (assuming they’re switching to Pfizer or Moderna during the delay)?

But don’t people have some degree of immunity after getting the first shot of Pfizer or Moderna? 

My bigger concern is that this creates even more hesitancy amongst those who are leary of getting vaccinated. Some who have the inability to see the bigger picture are looking for their ‘told you so’ moment when this hiccup is really proving the opposite of the anti-vax narrative. In the end and given the information we have available there’s a .0001% chance of getting a blood clot from ONE of the vaccines vs. a much MUCH higher chance of developing a condition of similar severity to a blood clot, or dying from COVID. 

I know I’m preaching to the choir... 

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1 hour ago, hoosier_exotics said:

My guess is the number is a hell of a lot higher than 6 to cause the pause.  Has to be! No way they cut their own throats over 6 people

Same here. What is the real #? My wife heard that her patients mother had a mini stroke from the J&J shot. Was it from a blood clot? I doubt she was counted as one of the 6. My guess is there is much we don't know (and perhaps aren't being told?) to keep people from panicking and to keep the shots going.

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unnamed - 2021-04-14T063756.230

152602

Counting those that were already infected, the US could be reaching herd immunity levels this month.

The J&J pause is expected to be rather short. And, from Bloomberg, -

Pfizer has ramped up production and “can deliver 10% more doses to the U.S. by the end of May than previously agreed,” its CEO tweeted. Meanwhile, Moderna’s shots remained more than 90% effective after six months, according to a new analysis of the company’s final-stage trial.

 

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45 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Same here. What is the real #? My wife heard that her patients mother had a mini stroke from the J&J shot. Was it from a blood clot? I doubt she was counted as one of the 6. My guess is there is much we don't know (and perhaps aren't being told?) to keep people from panicking and to keep the shots going.

Exactly! 

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47 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Same here. What is the real #? My wife heard that her patients mother had a mini stroke from the J&J shot. Was it from a blood clot? I doubt she was counted as one of the 6. My guess is there is much we don't know (and perhaps aren't being told?) to keep people from panicking and to keep the shots going.

Was the stroke 10-15 minutes after the shot, or 2 weeks after the shot?  That's a big difference when assigning a cause for the stroke.  Unless it was immediately after the shot, it would be hard to place the blame on the vaccine with 100% certainty.   

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Taking my point above a step further.  I encourage everyone to be careful about jumping on the bandwagon to deem the vaccines as unsafe.  Just because a variable was present (in this case the vaccine) does not mean the variable caused the event (in this case the stroke).   If someone has a stroke a week after getting the vaccine, blaming the vaccine without having additional information is kind of like saying someone who tested positive and then got struck by lightening, died of Covid. 

We don't blame John Deere when people drop dead while mowing their lawn.  Would the person have lived longer if they hired a mowing service?  Quite possibly.  But, the fact they died while using a John Deere product was likely more a result of other factors (being overweight, a 3 pack a day habit, etc.) than anything else.

I'm sorry, but 6 cases of blood clots among a population of 6.8 million is not sufficient evidence to stop a vaccination process that is so critical.  We've become a society that bows too easily to fear mongering.

Think about it.  If we went back 3 years in time and selected 6.8 million people to form a random population pool, is it not outside of the realm of possibility that some of those 6.8 million would have blood clots over a 3 week period, even without the presence of Covid or any related vaccine? 

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

My wife actually contracted Covid between her first and 2nd shots.  

Ugh. That sucks. She doing better now? That's why I said 'degree'. Our friend who's a PA also got COVID after her first jab as well. It turned out she was asymptomatic when she got her first shot. She was bummed....and ended up getting it really bad. One of the most careful people I know in this pandemic too, but she had to be because she sees older and compromised patients. A few of her patients actually died from COVID. Needless to say it's been a tough year for her. When it hits that close to home; it tends to be a bit more 'real' and scary.  

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52 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Ugh. That sucks. She doing better now? That's why I said 'degree'. Our friend who's a PA also got COVID after her first jab as well. It turned out she was asymptomatic when she got her first shot. She was bummed....and ended up getting it really bad. One of the most careful people I know in this pandemic too, but she had to be because she sees older and compromised patients. A few of her patients actually died from COVID. Needless to say it's been a tough year for her. When it hits that close to home; it tends to be a bit more 'real' and scary.  

She is doing better.  Thanks for asking.  It did not her off her feet pretty hard though.  

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54 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Ugh. That sucks. She doing better now? That's why I said 'degree'. Our friend who's a PA also got COVID after her first jab as well. It turned out she was asymptomatic when she got her first shot. She was bummed....and ended up getting it really bad. One of the most careful people I know in this pandemic too, but she had to be because she sees older and compromised patients. A few of her patients actually died from COVID. Needless to say it's been a tough year for her. When it hits that close to home; it tends to be a bit more 'real' and scary.  

One piece of good news in all of that was that I was 2 weeks into my single dose J&J vaccine when she started showing symptoms.  and I did not catch it from her.  I actually got tested just to make sure.  So, from my perspective, only requiring one dose of J&J may have helped me avoid getting it.  

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2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Was the stroke 10-15 minutes after the shot, or 2 weeks after the shot?  That's a big difference when assigning a cause for the stroke.  Unless it was immediately after the shot, it would be hard to place the blame on the vaccine with 100% certainty.   

I don't have those details and understand where you are coming from. I'm not blaming the vaccine although her daughter thinks there is a relation. Whether this second hand account was from the vaccination or not is immaterial to the main point that we don't know if there are more than 6 cases. Could there be 6 confirmed and 600 more under investigation? Something caused a pause and I would actually hope it was more than 6 cases. Not saying people should avoid the vaccinations but elderly women might be better off with the Moderna or Pfizer. I'm sure we'll learn much more over the next 6-12 months regarding the efficacy and longevity of these vaccinations. My plan was to wait for more info to come out and probably get the J&J so only have the 1 shot to deal with. Ended up with Moderna. Oh well.

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1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

Ugh. That sucks. She doing better now? That's why I said 'degree'. Our friend who's a PA also got COVID after her first jab as well. It turned out she was asymptomatic when she got her first shot. She was bummed....and ended up getting it really bad. One of the most careful people I know in this pandemic too, but she had to be because she sees older and compromised patients. A few of her patients actually died from COVID. Needless to say it's been a tough year for her. When it hits that close to home; it tends to be a bit more 'real' and scary.  

I read an article last week about how if you get the vaccine and are asymptomatic it can activate covid and exacerbate the symptoms.  Hope your friend is doing well. 

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