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41 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I don't think anyone is saying we aren't vaccinating quickly - I think we objectively are - but COVID variants don't care how quick we are and don't give participation trophies.  I'm not a doctor, but my understanding is we're in a race against time for a variant that is different enough and/or resistant to the vaccine, which would start this whole process over again.  So we need to go quicker.  And if we can go quicker, we need to go even quicker than that.

We're having conversations about vaccine hesitancy because it's a very real concern and there have been numerous stories over the past weeks about vaccines going unused.  That's notable, IMO.

So comparing reality and this description, is this really the end of time? Shall I initiate my prepping plan now?  

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2 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I don't think anyone is saying we aren't vaccinating quickly - I think we objectively are - but COVID variants don't care how quick we are and don't give participation trophies.  I'm not a doctor, but my understanding is we're in a race against time for a variant that is different enough and/or resistant to the vaccine, which would start this whole process over again.  So we need to go quicker.  And if we can go quicker, we need to go even quicker than that.

We're having conversations about vaccine hesitancy because it's a very real concern and there have been numerous stories over the past weeks about vaccines going unused.  That's notable, IMO.

Why isn't the rest of the world nearly as worried? Their percentages are LOW. 

Either way.. 7% of the country is impressive in a months time. 

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25 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Why isn't the rest of the world nearly as worried? Their percentages are LOW. 

Either way.. 7% of the country is impressive in a months time. 

I'm not sure you're qualified to speak for the rest of the world, but since you're talking about Canada - here are a few articles about Trudeau and his stance on the vaccine (I searched "Trudeau vaccine" fwiw):

Quote

“Elevated case counts and severe illness trends remind us we are still in a right race between vaccines and variants and our actions matter,” said Chief Public Health Officer Theresa Tam.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/23/canada-covid-at-critical-levels-personal-contact-discouraged

Quote

'Get your shot as soon as it's your turn': PM seeks to dispel vaccine concerns

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/get-your-shot-as-soon-as-it-s-your-turn-pm-seeks-to-dispel-vaccine-concerns-1.5413567

 

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To say it's fear mongering that vaccination rates are declining and that may present a future concern is a bit of gaslighting, IMO.  You don't have to get a vaccine, that's your right, but this is a collective action - all of the people who decline a vaccine have an impact on my life, too, if we get a vaccine-resistant new variant of COVID, so I'm allowed to have an opinion just like they're allowed to decline to get it.

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8 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

To say it's fear mongering that vaccination rates are declining and that may present a future concern is a bit of gaslighting, IMO.  You don't have to get a vaccine, that's your right, but this is a collective action - all of the people who decline a vaccine have an impact on my life, too, if we get a vaccine-resistant new variant of COVID, so I'm allowed to have an opinion just like they're allowed to decline to get it.

I never mentioned anything about getting it and not getting it. I'm saying.. we are doing a solid job distributing. The rest need to lay off. 

I also didn't realize as a Canadian they need to be less worried? 

Is their media shoving it down their throat to get vaccinated? Why isn't our media just complaining about the rest of the world... we're doing our job. 33% vaccinated. Destroys any other country. Only point I'm making. 

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9 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

To say it's fear mongering that vaccination rates are declining and that may present a future concern is a bit of gaslighting, IMO.  You don't have to get a vaccine, that's your right, but this is a collective action - all of the people who decline a vaccine have an impact on my life, too, if we get a vaccine-resistant new variant of COVID, so I'm allowed to have an opinion just like they're allowed to decline to get it.

I'm going to be blunt. I do not believe in collectiveism. I don't believe I have a responsibility to protect anybody but myself and my family.

Edited by mrflynn03
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33 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

To say it's fear mongering that vaccination rates are declining and that may present a future concern is a bit of gaslighting, IMO.  You don't have to get a vaccine, that's your right, but this is a collective action - all of the people who decline a vaccine have an impact on my life, too, if we get a vaccine-resistant new variant of COVID, so I'm allowed to have an opinion just like they're allowed to decline to get it.

Just want to key in on mutations and variants. 

When it come to viruses there is genetic drift and shift. Drift is mostly inconsequential, shift leads leads to variants.  What you see in the news is all crap. All this news about variants is written by people who quit bio 101 to become journalists or liberal arts majors. 

 

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The speed of vaccinations is relevant, but not the primary point I was trying to make on the previous page.  The point of my discussion was more around reluctance.  Getting the vaccine or not is a personal choice.  That said, there is a lot of misinformation and conspiracy theories that just are not true.  However, there are some facts that everyone should be aware of.   

  • Coronavirus is real and can cause death.  Whether or not the number of deaths attribute to the virus are accurate or not is not relevant to this basic fact that it can cause death.
  • The number of infections for those that have been vaccinated is down significantly compared to what we had prior to the vaccinations.  Indisputable.  Yes, there are breakthrough cases.  But, it is miniscule compared to how many cases have been prevented.
  • The fewer number of cases, the fewer people that die.  Indisputable
  • The fewer number of cases, the greater the chances things will be fully open sooner.  Whether or not you believe in some of the restrictions or not, it is a fact that policies around opening up are based, in part, on the spread of the virus.
  • Vaccines are available to every American over the age restrictions.  There is no privilege involved in the current distribution process.  People that have not been vaccinated have made the choice to not get vaccinated, at least up until now.
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8 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

I'm going to be blunt. I do not believe in collectiveism. I don't believe I have a responsibility to protect anybody but myself and my family.  

 

You sure about that?  Did you register with selective service?  

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22 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

The speed of vaccinations is relevant, but not the primary point I was trying to make on the previous page.  The point of my discussion was more around reluctance.  Getting the vaccine or not is a personal choice.  That said, there is a lot of misinformation and conspiracy theories that just are not true.  However, there are some facts that everyone should be aware of.   

  • Coronavirus is real and can cause death.  Whether or not the number of deaths attribute to the virus are accurate or not is not relevant to this basic fact that it can cause death.
  • The number of infections for those that have been vaccinated is down significantly compared to what we had prior to the vaccinations.  Indisputable.  Yes, there are breakthrough cases.  But, it is miniscule compared to how many cases have been prevented.
  • The fewer number of cases, the fewer people that die.  Indisputable
  • The fewer number of cases, the greater the chances things will be fully open sooner.  Whether or not you believe in some of the restrictions or not, it is a fact that policies around opening up are based, in part, on the spread of the virus.
  • Vaccines are available to every American over the age restrictions.  There is no privilege involved in the current distribution process.  People that have not been vaccinated have made the choice to not get vaccinated, at least up until now.

That last point there resonates with me.  

Will there, at some point in the future, be a government mandate(law) that says you must get the vaccine?  And if so what would be the consequences of refusing to get it?  

And before anybody coils up like a rattlesnake, I am just throwing that out there for conversation/discussion.

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23 minutes ago, rico said:

That last point there resonates with me.  

Will there, at some point in the future, be a government mandate(law) that says you must get the vaccine?  And if so what would be the consequences of refusing to get it?  

And before anybody coils up like a rattlesnake, I am just throwing that out there for conversation/discussion.

Legally, states can enact such legislation...

Link

"In 1905 the Supreme Court addressed mandatory vaccinations in regard to smallpox in Jacobson v Massachusetts [2]. There the Court ruled that the police power of a state absolutely included reasonable regulations established by legislature to protect public health and safety [2]. Such regulations do not violate the 14th Amendment right to liberty because they fall within the many restraints to which every person is necessarily subjected for the common good [3]. Real liberty for all cannot exist if each individual is allowed to act without regard to the injury that his or her actions might cause others; liberty is constrained by law. The Court went on to determine in Jacobson that a state may require vaccination if the board of health deems it necessary for public health or safety [4]."

The key words to me are "established by the legislature." No state executive action (or Federal action for that matter) should overrule that. Sets a dangerous precedent in my opinion.

I will say this...Much of the reasonable dialogue has been lost in the political noise this pandemic has fostered. This disease and every relevant issue surrounding it have been politically weaponized to the point it's hard to have a discussion about it without bringing out the factions.

 

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8 hours ago, btownqb said:

I never mentioned anything about getting it and not getting it. I'm saying.. we are doing a solid job distributing. The rest need to lay off. 

I also didn't realize as a Canadian they need to be less worried? 

Is their media shoving it down their throat to get vaccinated? Why isn't our media just complaining about the rest of the world... we're doing our job. 33% vaccinated. Destroys any other country. Only point I'm making. 

It’s my opinion that you are correct focusing on fear mongering, but aren’t focusing on the correct fear that is being mongered. The information that falsely (without evidence) says vaccine aren't effective or a severe risk to one’s health is much more disruptive to our way of life than whatever gripe one has with the media. One is pretty harmless (albeit annoying) and one is harmful. 

So what if some media is urging speed when demand amongst unvaccinated has plateaued. What’s the harm in that? That we get vaccinated faster and get back to normalcy faster? Maybe prevent a few deaths? 

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1st vaccinated buddy of mine tests positive.  

My theory on this super low .008 infected vaccinated people number is that most are no longer getting tested thinking well it's just allergies.  He actually went and got tested because of one day of fever.  

Again.  I was around him a ton.  

Edited by NotIThatLives
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5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

The information that falsely (without evidence) says vaccine aren't effective or a severe risk to one’s health is much more disruptive to our way of life than whatever gripe one has with the media. One is pretty harmless (albeit annoying) and one is harmful. 

@tdhoosier you and I have had a lot of great conversations, but on this point, In the grand scheme of things, I think you're dead wrong here...

The ultimate goal of a true journalist is to present facts, not take sides and push agendas...Unfortunately, at this point, we're way past that...

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I’ve flown 3 times during all of this, the first time was last Memorial Day weekend. Going through Atlanta airport security was like being in some post apocalyptic movie! There was only 1 door going into security about 30-40 people were in line. Everyone keeping to the 6’ spacing. Some even staying two spots back for 12’. At the waiting area everyone stood alone spaced out! But when they announced boarding everyone jammed into line. Apparently getting a spot for their  carryon was more important than their  health? 
 

Strange that a year later, we still don’t have a clue!

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24 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

@tdhoosier you and I have had a lot of great conversations, but on this point, In the grand scheme of things, I think you're dead wrong here...

The ultimate goal of a true journalist is to present facts, not take sides and push agendas...Unfortunately, at this point, we're way past that...

That’s good, because I’m not talking something in the grand scheme. I’m talking about a specific point and not the media in general. Regarding that point and facts, which of the following is incorrect?

-Demand for vaccines amongst unvaccinated has plateaued
-The fewer people who opt to not get a shot is an issue of concern amongst many health experts.
-The faster we vaccinate, the faster we return to normalcy
-Fewer hosts for the virus to find is a good thing.

I don’t know which journalists you are talking about, but I don’t listen to the journalists’ opinions. The information I’ve retained comes from scientists and doctors being interviewed or referenced. I’m not an expert on the subject, so I listen to experts in order to form an opinion....not journalists or politicians. 

I’m not saying in the grand scheme media on both sides is not harmful, but getting all worked up on this particular issue is complaining about the media to just complain about the media. 

I’ll equate it to the annoying co-worker. He may get something right, but at the end of the day he still sucks. But rather than acknowledge a point he has is correct, it’s still more personally fulfilling to talk about all the crap he’s gotten wrong in the past.....just because he’s a jerk. 

Edited by tdhoosier
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I hate to say this but my baby sister distrusts everything about our government, but yet believes everything that comes out of the mouth of a news anchor.

America, we got a problem and I really don't know what the answer is.  

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5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I’m not saying in the grand scheme media on both sides is not harmful, but getting all worked up on this particular issue is complaining about the media to just complain about the media. 

And that's the point...How many times during this whole goat rope has someone on either side of the issue presented "fact" (and yes, I'm including scientists, the CDC, and the WHO) only to walk it back later?

It is a fact that people have died from the vaccination...it's also fact that people have had serious reactions to them...I understand there's a probability factored in all scientific research, but each person has to make their own decision on this...And unfortunately, a lot of people embrace information presented the by media (if not worse, "influencers" and idiot celebrities). The fact that the media on both sides will edit and twist facts to fit a certain narrative concerns me much more than if I'll get the shot or not...

 

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