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Reacher

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4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And that's the point...How many times during this whole goat rope has someone on either side of the issue presented "fact" (and yes, I'm including scientists, the CDC, and the WHO) only to walk it back later?

It is a fact that people have died from the vaccination...it's also fact that people have had serious reactions to them...I understand there's a probability factored in all scientific research, but each person has to make their own decision on this...And unfortunately, a lot of people embrace information presented the by media (if not worse, "influencers" and idiot celebrities). The fact that the media on both sides will edit and twist facts to fit a certain narrative concerns me much more than if I'll get the shot or not...

 

And this is what happens with all our conversations. We talk around in circles and deviate from the original topic of discussion for which we are both a fault. haha.

It can be argued that no science is fact because future discoveries can flip science on it's head. We may one day discover that the universe is not infinite and we are indeed an atom in some giant's fingernail. (I know you'll love that reference).  It's all about weighing the consensus of people's opinions, given the information they have, that are smarter than you or I. The first credentialed experts who says that their conclusions regarding the behavior of a still relatively unknown virus are 100% correct is the first credentialed expert I will stop listening to.

I'm not sure I'm doing or arguing against any of the points in your last paragraph. That said, I still do urge people to speak to their doctors about concerns and reactions they may have or not have...and then weigh the risks. In fact, i'm asking people to do the very same thing you are asking me to do....don't listen to talking heads, memes, or hearsay from a stranger on the internet. 

To bring it around, I'm just saying that I believe that the fear mongering (specifically, fear mongering that doesn't not have any evidence to support the fear being disseminated) behind vaccines, based on opinions from infectious disease experts and statistical evidence gathered (so far to date) by the CDC, could possibly be a bigger disruption to our way of life than this week's news cycle. That's my perspective. I think you are trying to pluck out something more trivial that isn't there. 
*underlining all interpretive phrases or caveat-icle terms (made up that word), so I don't get backed into the fact corner. :) 

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I'd like to add 2 points to this.

1- So far, evidence I've seen says the vaccines are largely effective against the variants. I'd assume future vaccines will evolve, much like the annual flu shots, to handle variants. I'm not convinced this is a race against time. Maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell.

2- In a globalized world, it is the least vaccinated populations we should be worrying about just as much or more than getting every last person here vaccinated. Are we cutting off all trade and travel with Canada? Last I saw, trucks are streaming over the border faster than ever. Are we cutting off trade and travel to Mexico? Not only are we not, but we are sending people all over the country with the disease to act as super spreaders. Until we deal with Mexico and Canada and the rest of the world, Covid will continue to flourish and mutate. 

I do see a lot of vaccine shaming going on. I think the top 15 vaccinated states should pause and ship their doses to those in less vaccinated states and then to our neighboring countries. 

There is no reason, IMO we should not be fully open everywhere. I don't see where the more open states fared worse than  NYC. CDC says masks not needed outdoors. Why are baseball stadiums not full? Why are some schools still closed? Children are more likely to die from chicken pox, the flu and even diarrhea. Swine flu was much more deadly to kids and we didn't close schools then. 

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42 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I'd like to add 2 points to this.

1- So far, evidence I've seen says the vaccines are largely effective against the variants. I'd assume future vaccines will evolve, much like the annual flu shots, to handle variants. I'm not convinced this is a race against time. Maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell.

2- In a globalized world, it is the least vaccinated populations we should be worrying about just as much or more than getting every last person here vaccinated. Are we cutting off all trade and travel with Canada? Last I saw, trucks are streaming over the border faster than ever. Are we cutting off trade and travel to Mexico? Not only are we not, but we are sending people all over the country with the disease to act as super spreaders. Until we deal with Mexico and Canada and the rest of the world, Covid will continue to flourish and mutate. 

I do see a lot of vaccine shaming going on. I think the top 15 vaccinated states should pause and ship their doses to those in less vaccinated states and then to our neighboring countries. 

There is no reason, IMO we should not be fully open everywhere. I don't see where the more open states fared worse than  NYC. CDC says masks not needed outdoors. Why are baseball stadiums not full? Why are some schools still closed? Children are more likely to die from chicken pox, the flu and even diarrhea. Swine flu was much more deadly to kids and we didn't close schools then. 

Both the Mexican and Canadian borders are closed to non-essential travel through this month. There may be more traffic down south because Mexico is way more lenient about letting us in, and allowing US citizens re-entry is deemed 'essential'. (just a guess on my part)

Many of the less vaccinated states and counties have more supply then they do demand, which is also why their percentage of vaccinated adults (per share of population) is lower. i do agree that when we have extras, we need to get them to other parts of the world.  https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/supply-vs-demand-which-states-are-reaching-their-covid-19-vaccine-tipping-points/

 

 

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2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Both the Mexican and Canadian borders are closed to non-essential travel through this month. There may be more traffic down south because Mexico is way more lenient about letting us in, and allowing US citizens re-entry is deemed 'essential'. (just a guess on my part)

Many of the less vaccinated states and counties have more supply then they do demand, which is also why their percentage of vaccinated adults (per share of population) is lower. i do agree that when we have extras, we need to get them to other parts of the world.  https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/supply-vs-demand-which-states-are-reaching-their-covid-19-vaccine-tipping-points/

 

 

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Don't fool yourself. Trade, meaning trucks and truck drivers, is still happening. 

Canadian snowbirds still were down in AZ and FL this winter. The "closed" border just created some inconveniences. I heard people would ship their cars across the boarder then cross over to retrieve them. It was still allowed to fly to the US for leisure.

https://www.snowbirdadvisor.ca/getting-your-vehicle-us-winter-4-options-canadian-snowbirds

There is no shortage of Canadians or Mexicans here in the US. Which means they are bringing their 3% vaccination rate with them. And that says nothing about other countries. 

 

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3 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

1st vaccinated buddy of mine tests positive.  

My theory on this super low .008 infected vaccinated people number is that most are no longer getting tested thinking well it's just allergies.  He actually went and got tested because of one day of fever.  

Again.  I was around him a ton.  

Agreed that the .008 is too low.  However, this scenario opens up a different discussion point.  Even if they don't always prevent it, they will likely reduce the severity of symptoms.  Someone that may have died before the vaccine, may now get away with a trip to the ER.  Someone that was hospitalized before may now just have to spend a couple of days in bed or on the couch.  Someone who fought it at home for a week before the vaccine may now feel bad for just a day.   

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On 5/5/2021 at 12:42 PM, 5fouls said:

If you followed the performance of the Reds bullpen, you would understand.   :coffee:

 

On 5/5/2021 at 10:37 AM, Reacher said:

Why are baseball stadiums not full? 

Atlanta Braves are playing in a full stadium this weekend. On top of that they’re offering free vaccinations  before and during the games Friday and Saturday! And as an incentive they are giving 2 free tickets to future games for everyone that gets vaccinated!

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33 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

 

Atlanta Braves are playing in a full stadium this weekend. On top of that they’re offering free vaccinations  before and during the games Friday and Saturday! And as an incentive they are giving 2 free tickets to future games for everyone that gets vaccinated!

Now THAT is a promotion...

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12 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Now THAT is a promotion...

I will say it seems like everything the teams/sports do in Georgia work out well. Stems from the gang in Augusta but I believe the Falcons have always had the lowest concession prices going....so it doesn't surprise me the Braves are following suit to do something for people as well.

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17 hours ago, Drroogh said:

 

Atlanta Braves are playing in a full stadium this weekend. On top of that they’re offering free vaccinations  before and during the games Friday and Saturday! And as an incentive they are giving 2 free tickets to future games for everyone that gets vaccinated!

You should get a free ticket to go back in 2 weeks for your follow up shot!

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28 minutes ago, Reacher said:

The US FDA doesn't think so...

That's the thing about COVID...No one has a real answer...I read through both articles and still don't know what to think...

I will say that I find it strange the FDA says Ivermectin is used on humans, if you look at the article it says the drug CAN be used in humans to treat certain conditions, yet the sidebar says...

image.png.152c549403b71643a79d68f1f9b421f4.png

And any idiot that can't figure out that a form of a drug meant for use in horses and cows isn't for human consumption is subject to Darwin's Law of Natural Selection

 

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The Fort Wayne Komets hockey team had a May 4th game at Indianapolis cancelled last week because an Indy player tested positive. Now, a week later, the league is making Komets forfeit for some reason. 

 

This is yet another reason why cancelling games because of a positive Covid test is ridiculous and stupid. 

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On 5/10/2021 at 9:39 PM, TheWatShot said:

The Fort Wayne Komets hockey team had a May 4th game at Indianapolis cancelled last week because an Indy player tested positive. Now, a week later, the league is making Komets forfeit for some reason. 

 

This is yet another reason why cancelling games because of a positive Covid test is ridiculous and stupid. 

Going a little further into this...apparently the Komets refused to play the game because of their opponent having a positive test, hence the forfeit. 

 

Wish these guys, and other pro athletes, would just vaccinate and be done with it. No reason whatsoever for games to still be getting cancelled over this. 

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3 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said:

Well, the New York Yankees announced today that 7 staff members have tested positive for the covid. However, all 7 have been fully vaccinated with the J&J vaccine!! They're calling it the "breakthrough" covid virus??

Was just coming over here to post this.  I had not specifically seen that it was the J&J vaccine.  As someone that got that shot, it gives me pause.  

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Some quick stats-

58% of Americans over age 18 now have at least 1 shot. Worry about contracting the virus has hit a new low. 28 states have fully reopened with another 6, including NY, opening this month. The NY subway hit highest ridership in 15 months. The San Fransisco Symphony held first in-person performance in more than a year. 1.7M people traveled through airports last Sunday the most since the start of the pandemic. Open Table reports seated diners at reopened restauranrts have reached 100% of 2019 levels. Worker shortages are causing some restaurants to limit their hours. It is forecast to be a very busy summer travel season. These National Parks requiring reservations- https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/these-national-parks-will-require-reservations-this-summer/ar-BB1g4VfV

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