IUFLA Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 53 minutes ago, dgambill said: I'm going to take Lostin at his word I never questioned his word. I was curious on how that would work. I told him the same in private correspondence... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I never questioned his word. I was curious on how that would work. I told him the same in private correspondence... Sorry I didn't mean it like that...just that it is so hard to sift through all these labor laws and so different nationally. I was just going to take him at his word if he says they can and do mandate it. I apologize I hope I didn't mean to make it sound like you were questioning him and you shouldn't. It is quite confusing trying to figure out what the actual law says as it makes it sound like there is no simple mandate from the state....but not necessarily the health institutions can't make their own mandates as far as a condition of employment. I do know they have to be very careful in providing for exemptions if requested as the EEOC take that stuff pretty seriously. Anyways I just want to apologize...didn't mean for it to come off that way. I should stay out of legal discussions as I'm not a lawyer and my take is probably wrong anyways lol. I know when H1N1 came around many places tried to force employees to get vaccinated and the courts overturned them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, dgambill said: Sorry I didn't mean it like that...just that it is so hard to sift through all these labor laws and so different nationally. I was just going to take him at his word if he says they can and do mandate it. I apologize I hope I didn't mean to make it sound like you were questioning him and you shouldn't. It is quite confusing trying to figure out what the actual law says as it makes it sound like there is no simple mandate from the state....but not necessarily the health institutions can't make their own mandates as far as a condition of employment. I do know they have to be very careful in providing for exemptions if requested as the EEOC take that stuff pretty seriously. Anyways I just want to apologize...didn't mean for it to come off that way. I should stay out of legal discussions as I'm not a lawyer and my take is probably wrong anyways lol. I know when H1N1 came around many places tried to force employees to get vaccinated and the courts overturned them. Earlier today not long after I had posted the link to NY law, I had went back and read what I wrote. And it did sound like I was questioning him. I didn't mean to, and I told him that. So I do see what you're saying...no need for apologies...I just need to read what I write a little more thoroughly... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Earlier today not long after I had posted the link to NY law, I had went back and read what I wrote. And it did sound like I was questioning him. I didn't mean to, and I told him that. So I do see what you're saying...no need for apologies...I just need to read what I write a little more thoroughly... We are all good. I'm trying to search for answers on so much of this stuff myself. I wish it wasn't the case. Definitely don't want to see Americans put out of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted October 1, 2021 Report Share Posted October 1, 2021 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: I never questioned his word. I was curious on how that would work. I told him the same in private correspondence... Ha, my word is not sacrosanct by any means. And I’ve never had to fire anyone for a flu shot refusal in my group. BUT, I have had to hassle people every fall to make sure they get their shot by the deadline. And I do know that the stated policy requires the shot or an approved exemption, or face termination. It’s pretty standard practice at NYC hospital systems. It also looks like the mandate is pushing a lot of workers towards COVID vaccinations. I talked to a nurse in the COVID pod on Tuesday and she said they’ve seen at least 10x as many staff coming in for first shots. If the goal was was more vaccinated people in your workforce, they have succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted October 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2021 Another therapeutic- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-pill-merck-cut-deaths-hospitalizations/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted October 2, 2021 Report Share Posted October 2, 2021 LOL...I can see already from a couple of HH pics that IU is going to have a fun time enforcing their mask mandate. Maybe compliance gets better but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a lot of pushback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted October 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) This one is for you @dgambill. Utterly amazing. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/#graph-deaths-daily Other states are tracking similarly. Edited October 4, 2021 by Reacher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier51 Posted October 4, 2021 Report Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) Evidently Americans aren't the only rowdy people lol. One wacko was carrying a machete while others were fainting. https://news.yahoo.com/rowdy-celebrations-across-norway-end-115826582.html Edited October 4, 2021 by Hoosier51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 4, 2021 Report Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Reacher said: This one is for you @dgambill. Utterly amazing. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/#graph-deaths-daily Other states are tracking similarly. Thanks! Yeah it's been trending that way for about a month now. Florida is a pretty unique environment. Summer is like our winter. Everyone shelters indoors from the unbareable heat and humidity. Weather has been very nice lately and you see everyone outdoors biking, walking, beach, eating outdoors etc. Both our sharpest hits were in Aug. With the delta variant there was a huge surge. Obviously kids were spreading this variant much much more than the original strain as well when they went back to school this time. However, in late Aug and early September Desantis opened up about two dozen monoclonal antibody treatment facilities and went around the state promoting them as we saw a huge surge...as you can see this surge was very sharp....but the decline was just as sharp. They have been very successful in lowering hospitalization and obviously deaths. Not a cure all as we know...but I fully believe it made a huge difference. We have over 20% of our population over the age of 65 and well over 4.5 million seniors. We are an extremely vulnerable population (even after vaccination). That other issue here is we have a lot of snowbirds and international travelers that come here especially right after Christmas so we will likely get another round and get another variant or two as people unknowingly bring them with them and many of them are in that vulnerable age group too. I suspect as we head into winter the Northern states will get hit with another round....maybe a different variant even. Hopefully with them being more highly vaccinated while cases may go up deaths remain stable. Less vaccinated midwest while not having the same density in population and spread however has a lower vaccination rate and may see some troubling days ahead. Thankfully some of these theraputics are coming around just in time to hopefully help us reduce risk of death. I'm hopeful with everything working together that we will get a much better grip on things rolling into 2022 as vaccines/drug therapies get much better and this becomes a more seasonal "flu" thing then a total emergency/pandemic thing it has been. It's definitely something to keep an eye on. Thanks again for the update! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted October 4, 2021 Report Share Posted October 4, 2021 https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/China-PCR-test-orders-soared-before-first-reported-COVID-case When are we going to make China pay? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted October 4, 2021 Report Share Posted October 4, 2021 3 hours ago, RoadToZion said: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/China-PCR-test-orders-soared-before-first-reported-COVID-case When are we going to make China pay? So at this point it should be obvious this was a bioweapon manufactured and released by the Chinese funded by the NIH and Dr. Tony. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/04/francis-collins-nih-step-down-515114 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, RoadToZion said: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/China-PCR-test-orders-soared-before-first-reported-COVID-case When are we going to make China pay? I post this link again. It's a bit of a read but the makeup of this virus, how it works, how it avoids detection by your body, how it is so specifically unique among virus's (like it was almost modified to be the perfect virus) just supports that this was manufactured in my opinion. Obviously a virus that has been highly and specifically modified to be a perfect human attacking bioweapon. No doubt in my mind. Unfortunately we all know TOO WELL that almost all the world leaders are beholden to China and their money. When so many people are on the take and paid off you know no one is going to push back against them. It's sickening not just in this country but all over the world how China has bought off so many world leaders who have in return sold out their people. Sickening. This isn't a republican vs democrat thing...it's all of them...but certainly we know of very specific ties this administration has with China.....they are never being held responsible. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02039-y Edited October 5, 2021 by dgambill 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, dgambill said: I post this link again. It's a bit of a read but the makeup of this virus, how it works, how it avoids detection by your body, how it is so specifically unique among virus's (like it was almost modified to be the perfect virus) just supports that this was manufactured in my opinion. Obviously a virus that has been highly and specifically modified to be a perfect human attacking bioweapon. No doubt in my mind. Unfortunately we all know TOO WELL that almost all the world leaders are beholden to China and their money. When so many people are on the take and paid off you know no one is going to push back against them. It's sickening not just in this country but all over the world how China has bought off so many world leaders who have in return sold out their people. Sickening. This isn't a republican vs democrat thing...it's all of them...but certainly we know of very specific ties this administration has with China.....they are never being held responsible. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02039-y To be a devil's advocate, technically any virus that causes a worldwide pandemic will be almost too perfect. That's why this only happens every hundred or so years. Plus, i've listened to a few interviews with geneticists that say nature is far more likely to create a 'perfect virus' than man is.....we're just not that smart. Second, nobody quoted in that article jumped to any conclusion that the virus was man made - the conclusion you're drawing was not insinuated. Many researchers theorized genetic manipulation last Spring and it was studied, but no evidence was found to support that theory. In fact, evidence was found that debunked it. Quote Anyone hoping to create a virus would need to work with already known viruses and engineer them to have desired properties. But the SARS-CoV-2 virus has components that differ from those of previously known viruses, so they had to come from an unknown virus or viruses in nature. Now, I'm not saying that China didn't know about this earlier and tried to cover it up. I'm also not saying that the virus may have slipped out of the lab. BUT theorizing it was genetically manipulated to do harm or is being used as a bio weapon, at this point in time, is a super huge stretch, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, tdhoosier said: To be a devil's advocate, technically any virus that causes a worldwide pandemic will be almost too perfect. That's why this only happens every hundred or so years. Plus, i've listened to a few interviews with geneticists that say nature is far more likely to create a 'perfect virus' than man is.....we're just not that smart. Second, nobody quoted in that article jumped to any conclusion that the virus was man made - the conclusion you're drawing was not insinuated. Many researchers theorized genetic manipulation last Spring and it was studied, but no evidence was found to support that theory. In fact, evidence was found that debunked it. Now, I'm not saying that China didn't know about this earlier and tried to cover it up. I'm also not saying that the virus may have slipped out of the lab. BUT theorizing it was genetically manipulated to do harm or is being used as a bio weapon, at this point in time, is a super huge stretch, IMO. I was not implying that it was man made cut and paste job....like a Frakenstein monster that was designed...but rather a natural occuring virus that had been nurtured in a lab, basically purposely selecting/reproducing and singling out mutations and variants that would allow the virus to pass into humans and make the virus more dangerous and deadly. No matter where the origin of the original virus and it's makeup in nature....I find it fairly hard to believe that the epicenter of an outbreak occurred coincidentally next to a govt funded lab who was studying novel coronaviruses and was funding gain of function research. The author of the article can be entirely true this is virus was not man-made but that doesn't mean the virus wasn't carefully cultivated either. The safety issues within the lab in Wuhan, the Chinese govt handling/involvement, the US involvement trying to hide the funding the lab...I mean sorry call me a conspiracy theorist if you like. When you go to investigate and explosion or a fire there are always clues left behind. Agents/residue from the catalyst, fingerprints of the device type used etc. We all know the Chinese wouldn't let people investigate the lab. We have people that tried to speak out that were murdered. I mean I don't see how anyone can think this thing just jumped from an animal in nature to someone in a wet market etc without this virus first having been manipulated and genetically enhanced in a lab. Or maybe I'm crazy....and that article does nothing to dissuade me. Asking me to overlook a mountain of circumstantial evidence that the lab was studying novel coronaviruses, receiving gain of function funding, was the epicenter of the outbreak, covered up by a corrupt govt who would not allow investigators and murdered whistleblowers who at the beginning warned about it and had top official in Chinese govt defect. Again, I'm not saying these people aren't correct this is a natural virus...but I don't think I can be convinced otherwise that this thing wasn't being researched and worked on in that lab and released from it. I think the only thing that is debatable was it on purpose or not....now that is where the conspiracies really start. Edited October 5, 2021 by dgambill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 Here is an interesting video discussing the problems with published research and maybe why we scientist can be wrong and info that comes out from studies etc should be carefully considered especially in this environment where motives are all over the place. I know people say to trust the science but a lot of time the science is flawed…in fact more often then not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cthomas Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, dgambill said: Here is an interesting video discussing the problems with published research and maybe why we scientist can be wrong and info that comes out from studies etc should be carefully considered especially in this environment where motives are all over the place. I know people say to trust the science but a lot of time the science is flawed…in fact more often then not. I am currently reading "Bad Pharma: How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients" by Ben Goldacre. It is essentially about all of the things that go wrong in getting drugs approved. It's important to remember that drug companies aren't an altruistic endeavor. They intend to make money, and when everything works right, everyone benefits. But, as you can imagine, when billions of dollars are at stake, that doesn't always happen. Reading this book is kind of like an inside look at how sausage is made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted October 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 Here is a detailed look at an issue I have brought up a few times- Vaccinating people who have had covid-19: why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101 The author states he has no relevant interests. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierFaithful Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 8 hours ago, RoadToZion said: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/04/francis-collins-nih-step-down-515114 Posobiec is a conspiracy theorist and is wildly editorializing here. His comments aren't referenced in any of the mainstream articles. https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/09/16/jack-posobiec-trump-fake-news/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said: Posobiec is a conspiracy theorist and is wildly editorializing here. His comments aren't referenced in any of the mainstream articles. https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/09/16/jack-posobiec-trump-fake-news/ I linked a politico article. Every major news network reported that he resigned today, so that’s not fake news. The tweet was just one I saw trending on Twitter, so I linked that as well. I don’t even know who Posobiec is, I just saw it trending. Figured it was major news, so I posted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadToZion Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 On 10/1/2021 at 8:31 AM, RoadToZion said: 4. This one IU Health. She was suspended in mid September, and has now been fired. All IU grads. I feel so bad for them. Edit: Apparently Oct. 1st was the deadline for many places. So in better news, 2 of the girls ended up saving their jobs. They decided to go ahead and get the vaccine. Smart decision IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierFaithful Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 Right, I wasn't disputing that he resigned - I was disputing the editorialization that Posobiec made. Totally fine to post the tweet, to each their own, I just wanted to comment that I'm not sure how valid that tweet is. I've commented a few times on sources different folks use here - to be clear, I'm not trying to say people can't post whatever source they want. Post a tweet, post an article, go hog wild! I know that lots of people read this thread and some may not dig any deeper than the links/tweets/etc posted. If something that gets posted might not be true, or might be misleading, or might be from a conspiracy theorist - I think that's worthwhile for folks reading to know too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted October 5, 2021 Report Share Posted October 5, 2021 So now, it's not enough that corporations are, at the behest of the government, strong arming employees by mandating vaccines, but if you even dare to voice your opinion like Sage Steele did, you face a suspension... While I know all too well that this in no way falls under protected speech in the Constitution, I think it's despicable for ESPN to threaten someone's livelihood over their opinion... Where does this end? 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So now, it's not enough that corporations are, at the behest of the government, strong arming employees by mandating vaccines, but if you even dare to voice your opinion like Sage Steele did, you face a suspension... While I know all too well that this in no way falls under protected speech in the Constitution, I think it's despicable for ESPN to threaten someone's livelihood over their opinion... Where does this end? Not sure why so many people are surprised by all this. Most corporations don’t have the individual well being of their employees or even customer as a high priority (evident by Facebook today and so many other companies) I’ve seen so many people get thrown under the bus and we are all expendable to them. It’s no surprise they would prioritize their interest over their employees. My only suggestion is try to find places of work that your values may align…and if you can’t then just be aware and not caught by surprise when they will get rid of you or treat you in a way you may not think is right. I’ve come to that realization and made peace with it. Kind of sad. Also though it has caused me to be very selective of who I do business with as well. You can’t live in this world and not interact with some that you may not be ok with (unless you live off the grid) but at least I try to find an alternative that I accept where I can. Individually we are just a bug on their windshield but hopefully collectively we make enough of a mess they pull over and clean up their act. Edited October 6, 2021 by dgambill 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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