Coronavirus

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Posobiec is a conspiracy theorist and is wildly editorializing here.  His comments aren't referenced in any of the mainstream articles.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/09/16/jack-posobiec-trump-fake-news/

Doesn’t mean what he said was incorrect. 
https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/statement-drs-collins-fauci-concerning-intention-lift-moratorium

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/
 

Funny how NIH says even though they were funding the gain of function research there they can confidently claim it wasn’t the cause of Covid 19. Oh wow…so they investigated themselves and said they are clean and clear….yeah sure we all just are suppose to take them at their word….especially how they were so forth right up front in admitting their connections to the lab and the research there….sure I believe them.

[mrflynn03]

59 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

So now, it's not enough that corporations are, at the behest of the government, strong arming employees by mandating vaccines, but if you even dare to voice your opinion like Sage Steele did, you face a suspension...

While I know all too well that this in no way falls under protected speech in the Constitution, I think it's despicable for ESPN to threaten someone's livelihood over their opinion...

Where does this end?

Since the most likely unconstitutional mandate by executive order was announced, I expect when I check my emails when I go in on Friday that I will be required to get it or lose my job. 

Instead, as of now, there will be a drawing for vaccinated employees.  15 cash prizes. 1-$10'000, 2-$5000, and 12- $1000 prizes. 

Seems like trying to incentivize voluntary vaccination. 

I'm starting to think they won't require it. This is a pharmaceutical company. Think about that and who in .government is exempt.  

[mrflynn03]

What people need to understand about China right now and their motivations. This intelligence comes from multiple sources. 

Everyone thinks WW2 started with Pearl Habor. WRONG!  The Japanese invaded China in 1937.  2 years before Germany invaded Poland. What the Japanese did to the Chinese people would make you sick. 

The Chinese occupied Vietnam for 1000 years. Until the Japanese crushed China in 1937. 

Just look at what China did to Hong Kong after the Brits handed the colony over in 1999.

Look at what China is doing to Taiwan. The NLF escaped to Taiwan to form a democratic government in 1949 after Mao Zedong established the CCP in China.  China had been trying to take over Taiwan since the true government of China escaped.  

The CCP needs to be disposed of. China is T-bagging the world right now. 

China wants to rule the world.  

Edited October 6, 2021 by mrflynn03

[FKIM01]

8 hours ago, IUFLA said:

So now, it's not enough that corporations are, at the behest of the government, strong arming employees by mandating vaccines, but if you even dare to voice your opinion like Sage Steele did, you face a suspension...

While I know all too well that this in no way falls under protected speech in the Constitution, I think it's despicable for ESPN to threaten someone's livelihood over their opinion...

Where does this end?

No surprise. Sage has taken hits for running counter to the group think at ESPN for some time.  If ESPN was savvy (they've proven time and again they are not), they'd foster and encourage some dissenting views.  Instead, they'll likely lose Sage to Fox Sports or some other competitor when she gets fed up with their antics.

[FKIM01]

No one will ever convince me this is a 100% natural virus.  It's not.  Why on earth is there so much effort to absolve China here?  This mess is 100% their doing and the only "accident" I'll accept here is the escape from their virology lab.  The rest of their actions before and since have been very deliberate.

[dbmhoosier]

I'm not sure if this is the best thread but Sage is off the air for now.  Maybe for good.  Has COVID.

https://frontofficesports.com/espn-anchor-sage-steele-removed-from-air/

[tdhoosier]

4 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

No one will ever convince me this is a 100% natural virus.  It's not.  Why on earth is there so much effort to absolve China here?  This mess is 100% their doing and the only "accident" I'll accept here is the escape from their virology lab.  The rest of their actions before and since have been very deliberate.

Is that directed towards me? I did not absolve China at all. What I did say is that valid evidence to suggest the virus is man-made and/or manipulated is not there. There’s actually evidence to suggest it’s not (this evidence is in its molecular structure). There are also many smart virologists out there that still think the most plausible explanation is that this jumped from bat to human. I’m neither smart or a virologist so I’m going to consider their opinions.

I’m sure you’re being somewhat facetious, but going from that to ‘you will not accept another explanation’ is, IMO, a larger societal issue of making accusations without producing valid evidence to support said accusation. I just don’t jump on those trains. “No one will ever convince me” is another troubling statement. You’re acting like you conclusion is indisputable. I’m just saying it’s not….it’s far from it. A series of questions that don’t add up is far from producing valid evidence. 

Not picking a fight, just having a convo. Tone gets lost in text. I still appreesh your sunshine pumping (or lack there of haha)

[Reacher]

https://vermontdailychronicle.com/2021/09/30/76-of-september-covid-19-deaths-are-vaxxed-breakthroughs/

 

[Reacher]

7 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I’m sure you’re being somewhat facetious, but going from that to ‘you will not accept another explanation’ is, IMO, a larger societal issue of making accusations without producing valid evidence to support said accusation. I just don’t jump on those trains. “No one will ever convince me” is another troubling statement. You’re acting like you conclusion is indisputable. I’m just saying it’s not….it’s far from it. A series of questions that don’t add up is far from producing valid evidence. 

Since China is control of the evidence (lab), there will never be indisputable evidence in your mind. However, if you add up all of the other valid evidence- the defector (have you read that first hand report?), intelligence reports, scientific papers from the WIV scientists, the design of the virus, the behavior of China (frontrunning PCR tests, protective gear, obfuscating the investigation), and so much more, it becomes abundantly clear that the virus was manipulated by the Chinese (with monetary support from the US). 

[dgambill]

38 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I'm not sure if this is the best thread but Sage is off the air for now.  Maybe for good.  Has COVID.

https://frontofficesports.com/espn-anchor-sage-steele-removed-from-air/

I didn't realize she took a jab at Obama....I would bet that more than the Covid jab thing would get her in hot water. Times we live in lol...if you harass a senator while they are in the bathroom it's ok but if you voice your opinion at a school board meeting and the board members feel uneasy then they call in the FBI on you. I shouldn't say anymore...but I have always loved Sage! Always thought her smart, passionate, and classy beautiful! You do you Sage!

Edited October 6, 2021 by dgambill

[dgambill]

14 minutes ago, Reacher said:

https://vermontdailychronicle.com/2021/09/30/76-of-september-covid-19-deaths-are-vaxxed-breakthroughs/

 

Elderly....which let's be honest...very high percentage of elderly are going to face immune deficiencies. Once we knew that the vaccine didn't prevent infection (just reduces risks) it was a foregone conclusion that there would be breakthrough deaths. I don't find this terribly surprising or altogether alarming. It is still the overwhelming best course of action for someone in that category or anyone with high comorbidities to get vaccinated. I think what this should signal to vaccinated people is that this vaccine doesn't make you bullet proof against the virus. You should probably take precautions with your health....like say stop smoking, lose weight, get healthy dose of vitamin D, take your meds. I fear too many people will just ignore all the health risks that this virus is exploiting just because they got a jab and think they can just go back to the old way they lived. At the same  time I don't think that everyone should be treated the same when it comes to weighing their risk factors. 98% of people survive and most young and healthy individuals with not so much more than typical cold/flu symptoms. We should continue to focus the care on the unhealthy/at risk until we do have better vaccines/treatments. Those people should be the focus of quarantines and most targeted protections and the rest of us need to get on with our life (while doing our best to be mindful and protect those at risk around us). 

[tdhoosier]

7 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Since China is control of the evidence (lab), there will never be indisputable evidence in your mind. However, if you add up all of the other valid evidence- the defector (have you read that first hand report?), intelligence reports, scientific papers from the WIV scientists, the design of the virus, the behavior of China (frontrunning PCR tests, protective gear, obfuscating the investigation), and so much more, it becomes abundantly clear that the virus was manipulated by the Chinese (with monetary support from the US). 

And still, you are relying on questions without answers that 'don't add up'. 

And still there is far from anything resembling a consensus on that conclusion. 

And still, the virus is made up of many properties previously unknown in nature. This is the equivalent of physicists working with light speed (it may exist, but we don't know how to access it) to develop a rocket. 

And still, many virologists believe that the virus is naturally occurring. 

Again, this is far from being settled. You may be right, but its far from being an indisputable fact. And I know we disagreed on this before. Our bet to comeback to this theory 5 years in the future is still on the table. 🍻 I'm going to enjoy that beer you buy me.

[IUFLA]

Now hospitals are refusing necessary surgery to the unvaccinated 

 

[Reacher]

16 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Posobiec is a conspiracy theorist and is wildly editorializing here.  His comments aren't referenced in any of the mainstream articles.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2017/09/16/jack-posobiec-trump-fake-news/

Frances Collins is involved in this mess just as much as Fauci and Daszak. The MSM can pretend the resignation was planned years ago. The evidence is coming out. Plenty is already out there. I'll let people do their own research. 

You say you don't like his slant and insert your opinion that he is wildly editorializing but have no evidence to dispute his claim. Then you quote an attack article on him. I can do the same thing and say I don't like the slant of phillymag- or their bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/phillycom . The constant attacks get us nowhere. The guy could be a serial killer and wrong with a 100 other stories, but that does not mean he is incapable of being correct on this issue. And maybe he isn't but let the readers decide for themselves.  IMO, all you are doing is inserting your bias. I can say Fauci and Cuomo are responsible for thousands of deaths, yet others still find them credible. At the end of the day, I believe transparency will uncover the truth.

[Reacher]

5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Elderly....which let's be honest...very high percentage of elderly are going to face immune deficiencies. Once we knew that the vaccine didn't prevent infection (just reduces risks) it was a foregone conclusion that there would be breakthrough deaths. I don't find this terribly surprising or altogether alarming. It is still the overwhelming best course of action for someone in that category or anyone with high comorbidities to get vaccinated. I think what this should signal to vaccinated people is that this vaccine doesn't make you bullet proof against the virus. You should probably take precautions with your health....like say stop smoking, lose weight, get healthy dose of vitamin D, take your meds. I fear too many people will just ignore all the health risks that this virus is exploiting just because they got a jab and think they can just go back to the old way they lived. At the same  time I don't think that everyone should be treated the same when it comes to weighing their risk factors. 98% of people survive and most young and healthy individuals with not so much more than typical cold/flu symptoms. We should continue to focus the care on the unhealthy/at risk until we do have better vaccines/treatments. Those people should be the focus of quarantines and most targeted protections and the rest of us need to get on with our life (while doing our best to be mindful and protect those at risk around us). 

I bolded some key points. I saw somewhere else 74% of deaths are from those with diabetes and or obesity. The combination of those 2 factors are particularly bad. Doctors are speaking out about why obesity is not being mentioned more as a contributing factor- especially among the younger people.

[Reacher]

8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

And still, you are relying on questions without answers that 'don't add up'. 

And still there is far from anything resembling a consensus on that conclusion. 

And still, the virus is made up of many properties previously unknown in nature. This is the equivalent of physicists working with light speed (it may exist, but we don't know how to access it) to develop a rocket. 

And still, many virologists believe that the virus is naturally occurring. 

Again, this is far from being settled. You may be right, but its far from being an indisputable fact. And I know we disagreed on this before. Our bet to comeback to this theory 5 years in the future is still on the table. 🍻 I'm going to enjoy that beer you buy me.

The evidence adds up enough to satisfy me.  You must use a different scale. I doubt there will ever be consensus no matter what evidence comes out in the future.

I'd be happy to meet up and buy you a beer ( and you can buy the second  ) just as I have enjoyed doing that with several other HSN members. Message me if you ever in the Chicagoland area.

[tdhoosier]

22 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Since China is control of the evidence (lab), there will never be indisputable evidence in your mind.

I will also say that there is a reason arguments framed like this don't hold up in court. Because you are asking me to prove a negative.

For example, let's go back to Iraq and WMD's. When we couldn't find evidence we then were asking Iraq to prove they didn't have WMD's. How can Iraq prove they don't have WMD's if they didn't have them? It's impossible. It's forcing them to prove a negative. At the time, many were asking questions that 'didn't add up: "we're supposed to Saddam isn't covering this up given his track record?" "We're supposed to believe that they're not hiding them underground?" "We're supposed to believe this shipment of uranium from Africa didn't happen (even though we don't have evidence of it happening)?" 

Now, I don't like China (or Iraq for the sake of an argument), but the retaliation some our calling for just can't happen unless we have something substantive to go on. There are consequences if we are wrong. 

[tdhoosier]

3 minutes ago, Reacher said:

The evidence adds up enough to satisfy me.  You must use a different scale. I doubt there will ever be consensus no matter what evidence comes out in the future.

I'd be happy to meet up and buy you a beer ( and you can buy the second  ) just as I have enjoyed doing that with several other HSN members. Message me if you ever in the Chicagoland area.

I'm not sure how you can get around that 3rd point with such certainty, but cheers. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Reacher said:

I bolded some key points. I saw somewhere else 74% of deaths are from those with diabetes and or obesity. The combination of those 2 factors are particularly bad. Doctors are speaking out about why obesity is not being mentioned more as a contributing factor- especially among the younger people.

I can't agree more. We are using this one size fits all...scare everyone fear mongering...but in reality we KNOW the largest percentage of people this effects is the elderly and obese. I know we all know this one person we thought was healthy etc etc but I don't get caught up in emotional stories. I have had people in my family be effected. I live in a very facts based world and maybe that makes me seem a little insensitive but I generally just cut through that. Just give me the numbers. The numbers say old, infirmed, and over-weight (and especially conditions suffering from that) are particularly susceptible to this disease. https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/fat-cells-act-as-reservoir-for-covid-19-making-it-more-severe-study/article33153853.ece

This should be a wake up call to America but it won't. We all want a quick fix...a pill/shot. Let me go back to my easy comfy chair (life). Even after vaccination I wish they were telling them the work isn't done....you still need to be making healthier lifestyle decisions. It woke me up right away. Sad it took something like this....and I have lots more work to go but I got the message loud and clear by looking at the numbers....sadly I don't think people are paying attention to the real story and getting caught up in the social/politics of this thing and ignoring the real story here. We as Americans have an epidemic of obesity.

[Reacher]

6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I will also say that there is a reason arguments framed like this don't hold up in court. Because you are asking me to prove a negative.

For example, let's go back to Iraq and WMD's. When we couldn't find evidence we then were asking Iraq to prove they didn't have WMD's. How can Iraq prove they don't have WMD's if they didn't have them? It's impossible. It's forcing them to prove a negative. At the time, many were asking questions that 'didn't add up: "we're supposed to Saddam isn't covering this up given his track record?" "We're supposed to believe that they're not hiding them underground?" "We're supposed to believe this shipment of uranium from Africa didn't happen (even though we don't have evidence of it happening)?" 

Now, I don't like China (or Iraq for the sake of an argument), but the retaliation some our calling for just can't happen unless we have something substantive to go on. There are consequences if we are wrong. 

At the same time, you will only be convinced by evidence that will likely never be forthcoming. 

As far as retaliation, I'd hope there would be a preponderance of evidence before such anything major in that regard. However, using my scale, there is enough for some basic trade / political measures. 

[dgambill]

27 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I will also say that there is a reason arguments framed like this don't hold up in court. Because you are asking me to prove a negative.

For example, let's go back to Iraq and WMD's. When we couldn't find evidence we then were asking Iraq to prove they didn't have WMD's. How can Iraq prove they don't have WMD's if they didn't have them? It's impossible. It's forcing them to prove a negative. At the time, many were asking questions that 'didn't add up: "we're supposed to Saddam isn't covering this up given his track record?" "We're supposed to believe that they're not hiding them underground?" "We're supposed to believe this shipment of uranium from Africa didn't happen (even though we don't have evidence of it happening)?" 

Now, I don't like China (or Iraq for the sake of an argument), but the retaliation some our calling for just can't happen unless we have something substantive to go on. There are consequences if we are wrong. 

Devil's advocate...because the I think the Iraq war was one of the biggest most horrible mistakes in my lifetime...but Saddam also wasn't cooperating with the national community. He was constantly playing games and kicking out inspectors and defying the UN. Now I don't know if he did or didn't and I think more importantly Saddam felt more threatened by Iran and factions inside his own country finding out if he didn't have them is a more viable option as to why he acted as if he did have something to hide....but even to this day there are conflicting stories... https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/did-syria-receive-its-chemical-weapons-saddam/325348/

I'll admit there could be other reasons why China would not allow inspections into their labs and basically thumbed their nose at the international community (even if they didn't cause this disaster)....they could be hiding other research going on in their labs etc...but unfortunately I don't trust anything to do with China and we know to what extent they will go for power (killing their own people isn't a problem). Unfortunately I also know how corrupt our government is (who is also tied at the top to Chinese money and influence) so to have some scientist come out and support these claims just won't be enough to convince me. But to each their own...add it to the whole list of coverups that have happened in this world.  I've seen enough actions by our govt and China to not get the benefit of the doubt from me on this one....guess everyone is at a different place on that scale of trust. No worries.

As for the bolded part. I think we all know the reason there won't be any retaliation...we are just as culpable in all of this because we were funding the research lab. We don't really want to know the answers....heck...I'd say we aren't the only ones funding it. Probably multiple countries. Reason we didn't want to fund gain of function research here was because we feared it could get out...so we paid China do the dirty work...so any implication of China would also imply our part in all of this. We will just muddy the waters and call it a day.

Edited October 6, 2021 by dgambill

[dgambill]

11 minutes ago, Reacher said:

At the same time, you will only be convinced by evidence that will likely never be forthcoming. 

As far as retaliation, I'd hope there would be a preponderance of evidence before such anything major in that regard. However, using my scale, there is enough for some basic trade / political measures. 

Think we have a mountain of reasons why we should take a harsher stance on China...but unfortunately their $$$ is too good to pass up for the greedy elites in our country and our interest (American people) will always take a back seat to them.

[Hoosier51]

44 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Now hospitals are refusing necessary surgery to the unvaccinated 

 

That is despicable, disgusting or whatever other vile word you want to call it. 🤮

[IUFLA]

14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Think we have a mountain of reasons why we should take a harsher stance on China...but unfortunately their $$$ is too good to pass up for the greedy elites in our country and our interest (American people) will always take a back seat to them.

$$$ will trump limiting freedom every time to some...

Until freedom is gone...

[FKIM01]

I wasn't pointing at any particular poster @tdhoosier...it was vented at the overall diismissiveness regarding China's role here.  I could point to a whole host of things that are at least generally accepted that make me more than highly suspicious of their role...where it broke out...China's actions before and after.  For example, it's well known that China locked down inter-provincial travel after the outbreak, but allowed international travel.  How on earth does an observer reconcile those two conflicting directives without coming to a pretty sinister conclusion?   I understand that particular factoid doesn't directly address the viral engineering question, but for me, it says a lot about the character of the people running China.

...and I know there is also a significant effort to separate the Chinese people from the Chinese government like a tiny group of leaders are controlling more than a billion peace-loving citizens. Without question, there is dissent, but there's got to be substantial agreement from a significant percentage of the population to pull this off.  I see a lot of nationalistic pride among the citizens I've had the chance to observe.