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Reacher

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Think we have a mountain of reasons why we should take a harsher stance on China...but unfortunately their $$$ is too good to pass up for the greedy elites in our country and our interest (American people) will always take a back seat to them.

I'm not disagreeing with you overall on China. I hope this isn't political, but the TPP was a policy was to create a trade partnership with other SE Asian nations that would weaken China. It ended up being trashed based on political reasons and the false promise of returned manufacturing jobs we still haven't gotten back (and were never going to get back anyway). Side note, many of my suppliers who operate in China don't necessarily want to be in China, but it's their only option. It's like me being stick with Comcast. Unfortunately the harsher stances that are more realistic to implement aren't as glamorous as retaliation based on theories of bioweapons.  

And to be clear (once again), I think China is far from squeaky clean. I do think it is logical that they kept a wrap on this longer than they should have, which resulted in likely devastating consequences. Could it have been avoided? We'll never know. But again, I don't buy that they created and/or manipulated this virus and purposely released it. Obviously that is a much more serious allegation.

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1 hour ago, Reacher said:

Frances Collins is involved in this mess just as much as Fauci and Daszak. The MSM can pretend the resignation was planned years ago. The evidence is coming out. Plenty is already out there. I'll let people do their own research. 

You say you don't like his slant and insert your opinion that he is wildly editorializing but have no evidence to dispute his claim. Then you quote an attack article on him. I can do the same thing and say I don't like the slant of phillymag- or their bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/phillycom . The constant attacks get us nowhere. The guy could be a serial killer and wrong with a 100 other stories, but that does not mean he is incapable of being correct on this issue. And maybe he isn't but let the readers decide for themselves.  IMO, all you are doing is inserting your bias. I can say Fauci and Cuomo are responsible for thousands of deaths, yet others still find them credible. At the end of the day, I believe transparency will uncover the truth.

I mean, it is widely agreed upon that Posobiec is a conspiracy theorist. Take a stroll through the citations on his Wikipedia page to back that up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Posobiec

I don't need to present evidence to disprove his claim.  If someone can just drop a link to a conspiracy theorist's twitter, I'm certainly allowed to also simply post and say that person has a habit of posting factually incorrect information -- right?  

I don't have the time or the energy to disprove conspiracy theorist's claims.  And we're not in a court of law here!  We're just guys (mostly, hello ladies ;)) posting on the Internet, right?  If transparency will uncover the truth, and I think you're right, then transparency on the credibility of the "sources" posted here is certainly within bounds.

 

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10 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I mean, it is widely agreed upon that Posobiec is a conspiracy theorist. Take a stroll through the citations on his Wikipedia page to back that up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Posobiec

I don't need to present evidence to disprove his claim.  If someone can just drop a link to a conspiracy theorist's twitter, I'm certainly allowed to also simply post and say that person has a habit of posting factually incorrect information -- right?  

I don't have the time or the energy to disprove conspiracy theorist's claims.  And we're not in a court of law here!  We're just guys (mostly, hello ladies ;)) posting on the Internet, right?  If transparency will uncover the truth, and I think you're right, then transparency on the credibility of the "sources" posted here is certainly within bounds.

 

But we also have the issue of people putting a "conspiracy theory" stamp on anything true or false that doesn't align with their belief or a certain narrative...

Not saying you or anyone else on here does that, but the quickest way to steer away from the real truth these days is labeling it a "conspiracy theory."

 

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Not sure using Wikipedia as a source helps anything. My Wikipedia page can say I’m worth ten billion dollars and am going to buy the Chicago Bulls. Anyone can post nonsense on Wikipedia. 
 

Like I said, I don’t even know who Jack is. The resignation was worldwide news, his tweet was just one that was trending. It’s not like I meant to post a “far right wing” tweet. I’ll post the CNN tweet next time.

Edited by RoadToZion
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40 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I'm not disagreeing with you overall on China. I hope this isn't political, but the TPP was a policy was to create a trade partnership with other SE Asian nations that would weaken China. It ended up being trashed based on political reasons and the false promise of returned manufacturing jobs we still haven't gotten back (and were never going to get back anyway). Side note, many of my suppliers who operate in China don't necessarily want to be in China, but it's their only option. It's like me being stick with Comcast. Unfortunately the harsher stances that are more realistic to implement aren't as glamorous as retaliation based on theories of bioweapons.  

And to be clear (once again), I think China is far from squeaky clean. I do think it is logical that they kept a wrap on this longer than they should have, which resulted in likely devastating consequences. Could it have been avoided? We'll never know. But again, I don't buy that they created and/or manipulated this virus and purposely released it. Obviously that is a much more serious allegation.

Let's just say TPP is and was very very much in debate in how much it would weaken (if at all) China who is already by and far the biggest trade player in the Pacific region and has more influence on countries in those regions then the US could ever exert. Very debatable on both sides what the economic reprocussions would and will be. We thought much the same about NAFTA and that hasn't exactly worked out for the country....but I digress I don't want to get into a trade discussion in this topic lol.

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23 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

Not sure using Wikipedia as a source helps anything. My Wikipedia page can say I’m worth ten billion dollars and am going to buy the Chicago Bulls. Anyone can post nonsense on Wikipedia. 
 

Like I said, I don’t even know who Jack is. The resignation was worldwide news, his tweet was just one that was trending. It’s not like I meant to post a “far right wing” tweet. I’ll post the CNN tweet next time.

There is nothing wrong with the tweet. Even if it came from someone that is pretty polarizing because of their views (and yes some very strange and problematic views I agree). It was like a two sentence tweet. Both were true. He is resigning and yes both Collins and Fauci are caught up in ongoing debate about their funding gain of function research in the wuhan institute. Whether that all comes out to be true and they are implicated in anything is still left to be determined (I'm not trying to convict them) but they certainly are at the center of the US involvement in the Lab and funding research which has raised a lot of questions about how truthful/forthright they have been in all this. Would have possibly been a good idea to let people know right from the jump that they have connections to the lab that is at the center of debate in where this came from and if maybe someone without ties should be the head of public awareness and leading the charge into how to handle this pandemic.

Edited by dgambill
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1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I don't buy that they created and/or manipulated this virus and purposely released it. Obviously that is a much more serious allegation.

For the record, I don't buy that part either.  If it were purposely released, it would have been done in a much more controlled and devastating fashion outside of China.  I think they Chinese military has definitely been working on bio weapons (for the record, I believe the USA is as well) and I think this got loose accidentally.  

...but I also thing that once the cat was out of the bag, the Chinese tried to make the best of it for their national interests.  Doesn't matter what any of us think.  They will never admit it so all we have to go on are the things that are readily apparent such as the very odd travel policy instituted by the Chinese government after this thing got loose.

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11 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

For the record, I don't buy that part either.  If it were purposely released, it would have been done in a much more controlled and devastating fashion outside of China.  I think they Chinese military has definitely been working on bio weapons (for the record, I believe the USA is as well) and I think this got loose accidentally.  

...but I also thing that once the cat was out of the bag, the Chinese tried to make the best of it for their national interests.  Doesn't matter what any of us think.  They will never admit it so all we have to go on are the things that are readily apparent such as the very odd travel policy instituted by the Chinese government after this thing got loose.

I honestly didn't know it was a conspiracy theory to think it came from the lab. I thought everyone just assumed this to be the truth based on the preponderance of evidence we have. Conspiracy theory I thought was that it was released/allowed to spread on purpose to disrupt the global economies, create social unrest in other countries, or maybe even to get a certain political figure knocked out of power who was exerting great strain on China who also was well on his way to a second term with a raging successful economy at the benefit of having put into office one who they have a very good understanding with (and his family) that would be more beneficial to them. NOW THAT WOULD BE A CONSPIRACY THEORY LOL!!  OK I hope everyone knows that last part was tongue and cheek...but you catch my drift. I hardly think believing this "natural" virus could have been leaked from a lab (where they were studying specific coronavirus's) is a conspiracy....could it end up being wrong....sure...but I don't think labeling it as such is fair as it seems awfully reasonable assumption to make. Why and how (motives etc) was done if it did leak would be more conspiratorial imo.

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17 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

Question!  Instead of firing medical personnel and bringing in national guard. Why don't we leave the the medical personnel alone, and have the nat guard start helping with all these fugn ships out at port?  

That would be....well logical!! God forbid we get the Army Core of Engineers or the Coast Guard or National Guard to help....

 

genius.jpg

 

Instead our govt (both sides) would rather add to our problem...then turn around and spend more money to fix said problems and then be like...

 

politician.jpg

edit(this isn't a jab at obama...just thought it was funny and could represent any politician)

Edited by dgambill
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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

That would be....well logical!! God forbid we get the Army Core of Engineers or the Coast Guard or National Guard to help....

 

genius.jpg

Just seems pretty obvious to me. It feels like we are getting squeezed by our own government here.  Firing medical personnel creating more of a shortage there. Watching the ships bounce up and down like big bobbers, as our supplies are being depleted...  there is zero need for either scenario to be an issue, in my opinion.  Mobilize and get this product to where it belongs

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19 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

Just seems pretty obvious to me. It feels like we are getting squeezed by our own government here.  Firing medical personnel creating more of a shortage there. Watching the ships bounce up and down like big bobbers, as our supplies are being depleted...  there is zero need for either scenario to be an issue, in my opinion.  Mobilize and get this product to where it belongs

I think I said it a few pages back...."there is no problem too big that govt can't create...that more govt can't fix"-said by all politicians everywhere.

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think I said it a few pages back...."there is no problem too big that govt can't create...that more govt can't fix"-said by all politicians everywhere.

I agree ! And exactly why a large portion of the world,does not trust much that comes from government.  We had a chance to come out of this covid deal better than we have ever been. Energy, pharma, food...Instead, we've pissed it away it seems. I had really hoped our government would have worked hard with Canada and South America to make this piece of rock self sustainable.  

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https://www.c-span.org/video/?465845-1/universal-flu-vaccine

Watch this video of Fauci (and others) at a conference in 2019 discussing how the needed a global event to roll out a universal  mRNA vaccine (vs the annual flu vaccines that aren't always effective) without going through the 10 year FDA approval process. Fauci calls for a "disruptive" way to address the problem as they discussed how a novel avian virus from China that would create global excitement.  He wants a massive infusion of Federal $ like they had for HIV. Watch him at the 2 min mark and at the 40 min mark. At 48 min talks about giving the Universal vaccine to 6 month olds.

I came away thinking that Fauci really believes he is doing good by pushing a universal mRNA flu vaccine and getting all the attention and Federal $ as a result.  His constant TV appearances since only reinforce that. A global pandemic that transformed our world and killed so many was a small price to pay.

Was he a prophet or a planner?

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20 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Not sure using Wikipedia as a source helps anything. My Wikipedia page can say I’m worth ten billion dollars and am going to buy the Chicago Bulls. Anyone can post nonsense on Wikipedia. 
 

Like I said, I don’t even know who Jack is. The resignation was worldwide news, his tweet was just one that was trending. It’s not like I meant to post a “far right wing” tweet. I’ll post the CNN tweet next time.

While it’s still subject to some getting through, Wikipedia’s “BS filter” is much stronger than it used to be. It’s still entirely done by a network of volunteers, but there’s a lot of them, and on a high traffic page, something entirely outlandish wouldn’t last for more than a few minutes. It’s remarkable how vigilant/quick some of them are. 

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18 hours ago, dgambill said:

I think I said it a few pages back...."there is no problem too big that govt can't create...that more govt can't fix"-said by all politicians everywhere.

Reminds me of one of my favorite Reagan quotes: “The scariest thing that any citizen will ever hear is ‘I’m from the government, and I’m here to help’.”

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13 hours ago, Reacher said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/diabetes-covid-19-coronavirus-pancreas-insulin-cells-2021-9

"Early findings suggest that the coronavirus could be prompting the pancreas to self-destruct"

This is one that’s entirely possible. Viruses can sometimes attack a particular organ/system. Ebolavirus has a particular affinity for the kidneys. 

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1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

This is one that’s entirely possible. Viruses can sometimes attack a particular organ/system. Ebolavirus has a particular affinity for the kidneys. 

Which given how it has really been hard hitting on people that are overweight and likely pre-diabetic or undiagnosed diabetic already...yeah seems to make a lot of sense. Add that on top of the other issues with this virus (and many others) that fat cells are effected by and it just compounds the problem. https://www.nature.com/articles/d42859-021-00051-w

 

If, however, the fat tissue becomes unhealthy, as often happens in people with obesity, it can become dysfunctional and secrete hormones and other chemical signals that promote chronic low-grade inflammation. This constant simmering state—often present in elderly as well as obese people—is not the same as normal inflammation, which is self-limiting and part of the body’s response to infection, damaged cells and other threats. Chronic inflammation raises the risk of a number of conditions, including autoimmune diseases, certain cancers and ailments of the heart, pancreas, lungs, stomach and reproductive system. It may also be the reason a high body mass index (BMI) is associated with poorer outcomes from infectious diseases1, including COVID-19.

Researchers are still working out the mechanisms by which this inflammation occurs2. One hypothesis is that when fat cells become overloaded with nutrients, the resulting intercellular stress can trigger an “inflammatory cascade.”

“One way to think about it is: with obesity, people store a lot of substances in the fat cells, but they also begin to release more than normal as they grow,” says Andrew Greenberg, director of the obesity laboratory at the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University. “These circulate into the blood and bind to immune cells in the liver and muscle. And this leads to the release of inflammatory factors.”

Another possibility is that when fat tissue builds up, it become hypoxic, or lacking in oxygen. This, too, can activate inflammatory pathways.

A third pathway concerns the infiltration of immune cells called macrophages in adipose tissue. In addition, Walsh says, when engorged fat cells begin to die, “the body has trouble ridding itself of this tissue. This contributes to a lot of toxicity and sets off a cascade where all sorts of bad things happen.”

Po

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This is why Frances Collins resigned from the NIH. A month ago FOIA documents were released showing he lied. here is a tweet from a Rutgers chemical biologist (hope he is not a conspiracy theorist) laying it all out. Click thru and read the whole thread.

 

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