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Reacher

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54 minutes ago, Reacher said:

So anecdotal data was used and there was a typographical error and that is sufficient to throw out and totally disregard the conclusion? 

Come on. So tired of all the source bashing while ignoring the underlying issue. 

Peter Pan could say there is a link between the vaccines and heart issues. I'd just want to know if it is true. 

Are you willing to go on record and say their conclusions are patently false? Admit there might be a chance, however small, that their anecdotal data found something that deserves further study? 

Wait, I’m not allowed to challenge your posts? I thought you said all information should be welcome.

And this is not me ‘source bashing’, it is the journal that published his study!

Have you looked up the author of the study, Steven Gundry?

He is a former cardiologist who now sells supplements and tries to make the case that seeded vegetables are bad for us. 

Look, if a guy has a history of selling supplements based on fringe theories, has massive holes in previous research, hasn’t released his results and can’t be reached for comments then, yes, I’m going to question the validity of the study. Similarly, if 5fouls is giving marital advice….I’m also going to take that with a grain of salt. 

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Peter Pan could say there is a link between the vaccines and heart issues. I'd just want to know if it is true. 

And I’m sorry, but that is troubling. It blatantly shows confirmation bias. Anybody could search for any theory that they want and find a ‘link’, whether it’s aliens on Mars, if the Earth is flat, if 911 is an inside job, etc. I’m not saying that the theories are on the same level of legitimacy, but that is a dangerous hole to go down. The internet is a big place. 

Edited by tdhoosier
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I get it. No one is willing to go on record and say there is absolutely no link between the vaccines and heart issues.

Remember the saying a stopped watch is right twice a day? I'd like to know if there is a link between vaccines and heart issues. That's all. Nothing to do with confirmation bias. This is not the first study to make this connection. Hopefully more of these preliminary studies will lead to larger more scientific ones. 

Unfortunately, drug $ plays a big role in that. 

 

Edited by Reacher
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8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

That's exactly my point. You're saying that you are going to hone in on 2 of the seconds in a day that consists of 86,400 seconds. Life's too short brother! Drink more Bourbon County's. 😎

 

So is there a connection or not? Can we at least agree there needs to be more research done on that?

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1 minute ago, Reacher said:

So is there a connection or not? Can we at least agree there needs to be more research done on that?

I'm saying if you're searching for those 2 out of 86,400 seconds on a vast and unreliable internet then you are actively searching to confirm you bias. You're looking for the 2 outliers, or as you call them: unproven 'links'. Is the irony not obvious? Yes, let research be done; the cream will rise to the top. We will find out about it, if it's the case. But maybe also be careful you're not sharing biased research from people who have no business or knowledge to conduct legitimate studies, like a bogus supplement profiteer who won't share the information he eludes to in the abstract. (The point of my original reply in this discussion) 

But we don't agree on this, since you've made clear all information on a complex subject is fair game and worthy to be shared on this board.....even if it comes from Peter Pan. 

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20 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

Fauci says everyone needs a booster.

All cases are mild. So far, all cases from the reports I've seen have been in vaccinated individuals. 

If we will have boosters that account for Omnicron in a couple months, I think it is pointless to get a booster now. Just wait for the new improved version. 

As for Omnicron, The unvaccinated cases I heard about were asymptomatic. Agree that all cases have been mild. No cause for panic. Or states of emergencies. Or extra boosters.

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10 minutes ago, Reacher said:

If we will have boosters that account for Omnicron in a couple months, I think it is pointless to get a booster now. Just wait for the new improved version. 

As for Omnicron, The unvaccinated cases I heard about were asymptomatic. Agree that all cases have been mild. No cause for panic. Or states of emergencies. Or extra boosters.

Mask mandates coming soon, I'm sure.

I'm guessing 'fully vaccinated' will be valid only if you get the booster. 

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7 hours ago, Reacher said:

So you are on record saying these researchers are wrong and there is no possible link? Other researchers that have found the same result  are just plain wrong? 

 

It’s literally ONE researcher in an abstract littered with errors and not peer reviewed. Actual researchers all over the world are questioning the validity of this research already.

Reuters Fact Check is already on this and a few people at work had a good laugh about it today. So, I am on record saying I don’t trust this one poorly researched abstract. 

“Multiple other experts have expressed similar sentiments online, including one who shared parts of a presentation about the abstract and said it lacked data and any references, and was only written by one person (here).”

And this is my favorite part of the Reuters Fact Check:
 
“Reuters has reached out to the abstract author, Dr Steven Gundry, who is a former cardiothoracic surgeon and now promotes nutritious ways to avoid surgery, as well as running a private restorative medicine practice. He was not immediately available for comment.”
 
Edited to add that @tdhoosier has already mentioned the Reuters piece. Apologies, I was at work today and am not logged into HSN. 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Lostin76
TDHoosier had beat me to it.
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I'm not here to argue who is credible and who isn't and which way is the right way. I will say we do live in a society that puts a big influence on short cuts and the "easy" answer. I spent many years going to very decorated doctors that put me on all sorts of old and new medications and did little to research the underlying reasons for a lot of my health issues. Chalking it up to my genes or my work stress etc. To say nutrition to avoid surgery is a bad thing to me seems quite strange....changing my nutrition caused me to lose almost 40 lbs now....discovering my sleep apnea and treating that (which requires no medication) along with the improved diet and nutrition has allowed me to basically stop almost all of the maintenance meds that I was being prescribed or will soon be stopped as not needed. Not only did this also reduce those prescriptions I was also taking otc pain medications to assist with my morning migraines and my back that was continuing to act up. Haven't had to take that either. There are obviously conditions and circumstances that absolutely might need surgery and I'm no substitute for a doctor so my antecdotal story is nothing more than just that...but the body if properly maintained is a wonderful thing. The immune system if healthy is also a wonderful thing. Thank God we have medications and procedures and vaccines for things that might harm us outside those norms we might run into...and to help those that aren't as fortunate to have a healthy system.

We could treat everyone the same and eliminate all things not "healthy" or "good" for us or we could opt for some individual liberty "and risk" and allow folks to be protected who can't protect themselves and allow those that have made the accessment or taken precautions and that their risk is low to go about their lives. There isn't an end game for this...there is going to be no NET ZERO where it's irradicated. This power trip....and using this as a wedge issue on both sides is not in the best interest of American's. I'm not sure what the risk of taking the vaccine is exactly....nor what would happen to every single person who would get COVID. No one can say how each and every person would react. I do know the risk isn't zero....and the risk isn't 100% certainty. To act like this is just black and white and us vs them just is more fracturing of our society. I appreciate those that are out there to warn about the potential of harm...from this virus and from the after effects of the virus and from the vaccines and drugs that are being pushed like Ivermectin, Hydroxychloriquine, new COVID drugs etc. There is risk and reward etc in all of that. Questioning doesn't mean it makes the info wrong or is bad. Questioning and looking into things is how we can validate something even more or to find errors in something. Sometimes it just raises more questions but eventually we all just have to land somewhere on the decision line on this stuff and I don't think anyone is necessarily wrong or right where they end up. So I think it's not bad we have people come at this from all different sides. Info is good for making decisions..and sometimes it's incomplete info or especially info that isn't quickly available so this has been a great thread for people to sort through it all. I appreciate what everyone brings to the table. I've shared many things on all sides of this subject with people that I think will help in their decision in staying safe. Thanks to all!

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I'm not here to argue who is credible and who isn't and which way is the right way. I will say we do live in a society that puts a big influence on short cuts and the "easy" answer. I spent many years going to very decorated doctors that put me on all sorts of old and new medications and did little to research the underlying reasons for a lot of my health issues. Chalking it up to my genes or my work stress etc. To say nutrition to avoid surgery is a bad thing to me seems quite strange....changing my nutrition caused me to lose almost 40 lbs now....discovering my sleep apnea and treating that (which requires no medication) along with the improved diet and nutrition has allowed me to basically stop almost all of the maintenance meds that I was being prescribed or will soon be stopped as not needed. Not only did this also reduce those prescriptions I was also taking otc pain medications to assist with my morning migraines and my back that was continuing to act up. Haven't had to take that either. There are obviously conditions and circumstances that absolutely might need surgery and I'm no substitute for a doctor so my antecdotal story is nothing more than just that...but the body if properly maintained is a wonderful thing. The immune system if healthy is also a wonderful thing. Thank God we have medications and procedures and vaccines for things that might harm us outside those norms we might run into...and to help those that aren't as fortunate to have a healthy system.

 

The “study” I am referring to is a classic example of short cuts. One researcher with a pet theory and shoddy data. These are my least favorite researchers of all. They take advantage of people for their own gain. 

But, I do agree with you that dismissing nutrition as a way of avoiding surgery is foolish. I am on board with preventative health over treatment. I try to live well to avoid health issues and a tip of my hat to you for doing the same. “The body if properly maintained is a wonderful thing” is a killer quote!

BUT, in a pandemic it does not seem wise to try to falsely undermine the most effective weapon we have to end it. Talking about this doctor, not you of course. 

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https://www.history.com/news/1918-flu-pandemic-never-ended

Not trying to equate the two or anything...but the point being...this virus will likely be with us forever. No amount of vaccination has ended the flu...and it won't end this. Does that mean we shouldn't vaccinate and save as many lives as possible...of course not..but at what point do we accept Covid is here....will be here....will always kill people just like the flu virus was killing 60-80 thousand people a year and that is sad but that is just nature. The old, sick, infirmed, and even tragic young can and will die in the future, but at what point do we put it in perspective that we will just live side by side with this virus and can't let it control our futures. I don't know what WINNING looks like...I don't know what LOSING looks like because it looks different to whomever you ask. Covid is kinda like the war on terror. Sure I'm thankful to be protected, and willing to even be inconvenienced on occassion but we have to realize not everyone is and should be expected to land on the same spot of the spectrum when it comes to that and that no measures will ever end this "war". It's simply the price of being human. Our life is only but a vapor...and then it is gone. Let's not miss out on what is special about life in seeking to protect it or hold it too tightly less it slip through our fingers and we miss it.

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12 minutes ago, dgambill said:

https://www.history.com/news/1918-flu-pandemic-never-ended

Not trying to equate the two or anything...but the point being...this virus will likely be with us forever. No amount of vaccination has ended the flu...and it won't end this. Does that mean we shouldn't vaccinate and save as many lives as possible...of course not..but at what point do we accept Covid is here....will be here....will always kill people just like the flu virus was killing 60-80 thousand people a year and that is sad but that is just nature. The old, sick, infirmed, and even tragic young can and will die in the future, but at what point do we put it in perspective that we will just live side by side with this virus and can't let it control our futures. I don't know what WINNING looks like...I don't know what LOSING looks like because it looks different to whomever you ask. Covid is kinda like the war on terror. Sure I'm thankful to be protected, and willing to even be inconvenienced on occassion but we have to realize not everyone is and should be expected to land on the same spot of the spectrum when it comes to that and that no measures will ever end this "war". It's simply the price of being human. Our life is only but a vapor...and then it is gone. Let's not miss out on what is special about life in seeking to protect it or hold it too tightly less it slip through our fingers and we miss it.

Amen! I keep saying that I have high hopes for the pills...  I believe its the way back to semi normal.  

 

Edited by hoosier_exotics
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After all this time, if people can't figure out this is all about government using a manufactured crisis to control the population and bring about the New World Order, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't fear death and will rest easy in heaven. But will rain hell on any and all comers. 

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2 hours ago, dgambill said:

https://www.history.com/news/1918-flu-pandemic-never-ended

Not trying to equate the two or anything...but the point being...this virus will likely be with us forever. No amount of vaccination has ended the flu...and it won't end this. Does that mean we shouldn't vaccinate and save as many lives as possible...of course not..but at what point do we accept Covid is here....will be here....will always kill people just like the flu virus was killing 60-80 thousand people a year and that is sad but that is just nature. The old, sick, infirmed, and even tragic young can and will die in the future, but at what point do we put it in perspective that we will just live side by side with this virus and can't let it control our futures. I don't know what WINNING looks like...I don't know what LOSING looks like because it looks different to whomever you ask. Covid is kinda like the war on terror. Sure I'm thankful to be protected, and willing to even be inconvenienced on occassion but we have to realize not everyone is and should be expected to land on the same spot of the spectrum when it comes to that and that no measures will ever end this "war". It's simply the price of being human. Our life is only but a vapor...and then it is gone. Let's not miss out on what is special about life in seeking to protect it or hold it too tightly less it slip through our fingers and we miss it.

Exactly my position. I had a conversation with my doctor about " quality of life versus quantity " and I told him that I come down on the quality side every time. It's why I was unwilling to sacrifice time with my grandchildren to protect myself from something that I thought I was overwhelmingly likely to survive. Once again, my personal decision and not a recommendation to others. Someone once said, not sure who, that we live life at our own risk. That's all I want to do.

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10 hours ago, Inequality said:

The World Wide Web is full of perfidious information from all directions. Which is why I personally prefer to research as much information possible before I make a decision. To understand completely IMO, is to study the entire circumference rather than half.

So, is 'perfidious' part of your standard vocabulary, or is it your goal to make me look up words?

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4 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

After all this time, if people can't figure out this is all about government using a manufactured crisis to control the population and bring about the New World Order, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't fear death and will rest easy in heaven. But will rain hell on any and all comers. 

Is every government on earth participating in the deceit? 

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