Coronavirus

[tdhoosier]

14 hours ago, Reacher said:

Lets try this... What can we agree on?

The CDC changed its procedures 

The CDC did not follow proper procedures in doing so

Not all Covid cases have been counted

Other Covid cases were counted multiple times

There were deaths attributed to Covid for patients that were either not confirmed Covid positive and/ or where Covid may have been present but was not a primary cause of death.

I don't see where any of these are even debatable. In agreement so far?

Lastly, try comparing the results of your Google searches to the results of another search engine on any controversial subject. Google (just like Politifact) has been proven to have a bias (and their own employees have admitted as much) so it is no wonder you are coming to the conclusions you are.

Were the NC officials wrong to report they overcounted cases by 200,000? https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/north-carolina/articles/2020-08-12/nc-reporting-error-fuels-200-000-covid-testing-overcount

The Colorado Governor (a Democrat) overcounted 12,000 Covid deaths- https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/15/colorado-covid-coronavirus-counting-deaths-fatalities/ 

The CDC director admitted to Congress that hospitals have an incentive to falsely count Covid deaths.  

 

I just don't see how you can say cases and deaths have not been over reported given just the few examples I provided.  If you want to say a greater magnitude were under reported resulting in a net under counting, that is a different argument. 

I wanted to reign in things because you’re broadening your argument with every post. But before i do that (Haha) I need reply to your comment regarding search results Because it’s a huge part of our problem. I’ll respond to your other points later because I have a busy morning. 

I pointed out my Google results to make the point that search engines use algorithms, not that Google is right and Bing is wrong. As you know algroithms dictate how your results are ranked. I tried putting those key words into Bing to humor you. Because I never use Bing my results were rather ‘dry’ I basically got links to COVID dashboards through the CDC, WHO and major news outlets. I only received one article alleging over counting, 2 articles alleging under counting and a few more that attempt to explain why and how CDC records cases, deaths and hospitalizations. Interesting thing is that now on my Bing homepage I’m getting recommendations to right wing news sites about cancelling the Mandalorian star for her tweets. 

Both Bing and Google have machine based learning, they try to predict what you want to see and what you want to read, which is why I got certain results on Google and you are getting certain results on Bing. The only bias they are showing is the user’s bias, furthermore they both take into account youR search history and even your social media habits: what you share, what you click into, etc. This is the troubling thing for everybody....we are all getting sucked into our bubbles. It’s also the bigger explanation of why we don’t agree on much and why I get frustrated by the links you share. My perception (not accusation), based on the shear quantity of news outlets you link is that there’s no way you could possibly have vetted said outlets and you are getting sucked further into your algorithm worm hole. 

I personally don’t use Google for my news and I treat ANY social media post with skepticism (even if it supports my biases) for this very reason. I really try to narrow what read and listen (podcasts) to outlets that give credence to all side of an issue. You’d be surprised looking at my podcast queue. I may also read, for example the NYT which is not perfect (I’m very salty with them after they canned my man Donald McNeil Jr. last week), but it’s the devil I know and have learned overtime what to take with a grain of salt.  That said, I am guilty of taking the algorithm candy now and then. Reacher, I genuinely like you and I’m not pinning this all on you Or saying you are guilty of ‘eating the candy’ more than me or anybody else. I deal with it. You deal with it. Everybody deals with it. It’s an extremely concerning societal problem. But I just thought I owe it to you to be transparent about why I reply to you the way I do on this subject; it’s not my intention to shoot the messenger. 

....I’ll get to the other stuff later. 

[5fouls]

37 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Both Bing and Google have machine based learning, they try to predict what you want to see and what you want to read, which is why I got certain results on Google and you are getting certain results on Bing. The only bias they are showing is the user’s bias, furthermore they both take into account youR search history and even your social media habits: what you share, what you click into, etc. This is the troubling thing for everybody....we are all getting sucked into our bubbles. It’s also the bigger explanation of why we don’t agree on much and why I get frustrated by the links you share. My perception (not accusation), based on the shear quantity of news outlets you link is that there’s no way you could possibly have vetted said outlets and you are getting sucked further into your algorithm worm hole. 

 

When I use Google, if I type 'Law' I get a list of Divorce Attorneys.

If I type 'Jobs', I get Divorce Attorneys

If I type 'Financial Institutions, I get Divorce Attorneys

If I type in 'Weather', I get Divorce Attorneys.

And, so on.

[Reacher]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I wanted to reign in things because you’re broadening your argument with every post. But before i do that (Haha) I need reply to your comment regarding search results Because it’s a huge part of our problem. I’ll respond to your other points later because I have a busy morning. 

I pointed out my Google results to make the point that search engines use algorithms, not that Google is right and Bing is wrong. As you know algroithms dictate how your results are ranked. I tried putting those key words into Bing to humor you. Because I never use Bing my results were rather ‘dry’ I basically got links to COVID dashboards through the CDC, WHO and major news outlets. I only received one article alleging over counting, 2 articles alleging under counting and a few more that attempt to explain why and how CDC records cases, deaths and hospitalizations. Interesting thing is that now on my Bing homepage I’m getting recommendations to right wing news sites about cancelling the Mandalorian star for her tweets. 

Both Bing and Google have machine based learning, they try to predict what you want to see and what you want to read, which is why I got certain results on Google and you are getting certain results on Bing. The only bias they are showing is the user’s bias, furthermore they both take into account youR search history and even your social media habits: what you share, what you click into, etc. This is the troubling thing for everybody....we are all getting sucked into our bubbles. It’s also the bigger explanation of why we don’t agree on much and why I get frustrated by the links you share. My perception (not accusation), based on the shear quantity of news outlets you link is that there’s no way you could possibly have vetted said outlets and you are getting sucked further into your algorithm worm hole. 

I personally don’t use Google for my news and I treat ANY social media post with skepticism (even if it supports my biases) for this very reason. I really try to narrow what read and listen (podcasts) to outlets that give credence to all side of an issue. You’d be surprised looking at my podcast queue. I may also read, for example the NYT which is not perfect (I’m very salty with them after they canned my man Donald McNeil Jr. last week), but it’s the devil I know and have learned overtime what to take with a grain of salt.  That said, I am guilty of taking the algorithm candy now and then. Reacher, I genuinely like you and I’m not pinning this all on you Or saying you are guilty of ‘eating the candy’ more than me or anybody else. I deal with it. You deal with it. Everybody deals with it. It’s an extremely concerning societal problem. But I just thought I owe it to you to be transparent about why I reply to you the way I do on this subject; it’s not my intention to shoot the messenger. 

....I’ll get to the other stuff later. 

I appreciate your response and agree with you. How about that? 

In my case, I mostly scan headlines and read 5% of those. None of it is social media, google or bing news. I don't stick with any 1 site and, believe it or not, the vast majority would be considered center to left - partly because that is what dominates and partly where much of my investment news originates (in NY and DC). Yet, often the info that catches my eye, especially on this topic, is the story just coming out and/ or contrary to public thinking. Those are the points of view not getting wide distribution that I think people may have interest in and the ones that seem to draw the most controversy. 

I don't vet the sources I read. I understand there is both fact and fiction out there. If the NYT is wrong as often as they are, who is going to be right 100%? The more you read, the better you are at picking out the fiction and biases. I think everyone should have access to info and be able to draw their own conclusions. You seem to think a source should be vetted because you bring that up often. To me, that is a bias and greatly limits the volume of information you are willing to consume. I'll listen to Donald Ducks argument and, hopefully, make a rational decision if it has merit. Just because I post a link, doesn't mean I agree with it- but rather I'm hoping someone might find it of value. 

Lastly, the points I brought up in my last post, actually last several, all relate to the one paper on the CDC that you never fully addressed. 

[jv1972iu]

3 hours ago, Lostin76 said:

This is huge news and shows just how much the US can do if they put their minds and good people behind it. 

Not only good people, but competent people, experienced people.

[IUFLA]

Damn good thing it got fast tracked  

[Lostin76]

56 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Not only good people, but competent people, experienced people.

Feels good!

Though, we are watching Cuomo become a movie villain here in NY it seems like.

[tdhoosier]

17 hours ago, Reacher said:

Lets try this... What can we agree on?

The CDC changed its procedures 

The CDC did not follow proper procedures in doing so

Not all Covid cases have been counted

Other Covid cases were counted multiple times

There were deaths attributed to Covid for patients that were either not confirmed Covid positive and/ or where Covid may have been present but was not a primary cause of death.

I don't see where any of these are even debatable. In agreement so far?

Lastly, try comparing the results of your Google searches to the results of another search engine on any controversial subject. Google (just like Politifact) has been proven to have a bias (and their own employees have admitted as much) so it is no wonder you are coming to the conclusions you are.

Were the NC officials wrong to report they overcounted cases by 200,000? https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/north-carolina/articles/2020-08-12/nc-reporting-error-fuels-200-000-covid-testing-overcount

The Colorado Governor (a Democrat) overcounted 12,000 Covid deaths- https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/15/colorado-covid-coronavirus-counting-deaths-fatalities/ 

The CDC director admitted to Congress that hospitals have an incentive to falsely count Covid deaths.  

 

I just don't see how you can say cases and deaths have not been over reported given just the few examples I provided.  If you want to say a greater magnitude were under reported resulting in a net under counting, that is a different argument. 

Here's the thing. I'm going to focus on the conclusion of the study you posted because we are going to dive into a whole bunch of different directions with definitions of comorbitities, why the CDC defines them as such, etc. I'll use my google google search results and you'll use your bing search results and we'll get nowhere. The way I read it is: the overall numbers, specifically deaths, have overall been greatly over-counted due to some sinister motives on part of the CDC. Fair?

So let's filter through the fluff.....

Reacher, the number of deaths reported is at about 475k, based on the conclusions of this study by what percent do you believe the numbers are off by? Factor in all the over/under reporting.  

I always ask this question because I want to know if you think we are off by a significant degree - so significant that it would have changed the way the country has responded to it? Unless I missed it, the study sure didn't care to venture a guess at what they think the 'actual figures' are. 

If the answer is not by much then what's the point? It's like insisting we won a basketball game because the stat sheet says we out rebounded the team and had a higher shooting percentage, yet, the final score says we lost. All the other stuff is just fluff because the final score is what matters in the end.

 

[Reacher]

22 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Here's the thing. I'm going to focus on the conclusion of the study you posted because we are going to dive into a whole bunch of different directions with definitions of comorbitities, why the CDC defines them as such, etc. I'll use my google google search results and you'll use your bing search results and we'll get nowhere. The way I read it is: the overall numbers, specifically deaths, have overall been greatly over-counted due to some sinister motives on part of the CDC. Fair?

So let's filter through the fluff.....

Reacher, the number of deaths reported is at about 475k, based on the conclusions of this study by what percent do you believe the numbers are off by? Factor in all the over/under reporting.  

I always ask this question because I want to know if you think we are off by a significant degree - so significant that it would have changed the way the country has responded to it? Unless I missed it, the study sure didn't care to venture a guess at what they think the 'actual figures' are. 

If the answer is not by much then what's the point? It's like insisting we won a basketball game because the stat sheet says we out rebounded the team and had a higher shooting percentage, yet, the final score says we lost. All the other stuff is just fluff because the final score is what matters in the end.

 

Totally understand what you are saying and, right now, there is too much noise in the data to make a definitive conclusion one way or the other. What I have a problem with is the CDC breaking procedures/ protocol/ precedents/ laws and changing their guidelines. Using your basketball analogy, I guess it's ok if they won because the clock guy ran out the time on the other team or we won with an ineligible player. Sometimes, more than the final outcome matters. 

[Reacher]

On 2/12/2021 at 10:00 AM, jv1972iu said:

Not only good people, but competent people, experienced people.

You must be referring to the supply chain management folks at Pfizer. They did an awesome job planning last year to bring on all that additional capacity. 

[5fouls]

ICU beds in use in Indiana 9.7%.  First time below 10% since 9/19.  

[Billingsley99]

My 24 year old daughter worked as a nurse at Riley oncology. She left in August and took same position at another hospital. Prior to testing positive for Covid in November had perfect bill of health. Thursday she was rushed to the ER at the hospital she works at thinking she was having a heart attack.  She had a pulmonary embolism and was put on blood thinners to get rid of it. Hematology said some very abnormal issues in her blood work.  She is.undergoing further testing.  The only only thing that changed in her life from her complete physical in August to now is Covid 

[IUskim]

22 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

My 24 year old daughter worked as a nurse at Riley oncology. She left in August and took same position at another hospital. Prior to testing positive for Covid in November had perfect bill of health. Thursday she was rushed to the ER at the hospital she works at thinking she was having a heart attack.  She had a pulmonary embolism and was put on blood thinners to get rid of it. Hematology said some very abnormal issues in her blood work.  She is.undergoing further testing.  The only only thing that changed in her life from her complete physical in August to now is Covid 

That’s awful. I’ll be praying for you sir. 

[Lostin76]

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

My 24 year old daughter worked as a nurse at Riley oncology. She left in August and took same position at another hospital. Prior to testing positive for Covid in November had perfect bill of health. Thursday she was rushed to the ER at the hospital she works at thinking she was having a heart attack.  She had a pulmonary embolism and was put on blood thinners to get rid of it. Hematology said some very abnormal issues in her blood work.  She is.undergoing further testing.  The only only thing that changed in her life from her complete physical in August to now is Covid 

Oof, really sorry to hear this man. On the plus side she’s young and healthy, but there have been lots of recurring issues after recovery. 

We have been studying long term effects from COVID and it’s not looking good for many people who had it and supposedly recovered. I don’t have final data, but complications have been much more common and much worse than we had expected. 

One of our good friends is a doctor on Long Island and she was the earliest person we know who had it. This was in March. She’s having neurological issues bad enough to keep her from working full time. She’s been on and off of leave since July with problems walking and having balance issues. 

[IUFLA]

2 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

My 24 year old daughter worked as a nurse at Riley oncology. She left in August and took same position at another hospital. Prior to testing positive for Covid in November had perfect bill of health. Thursday she was rushed to the ER at the hospital she works at thinking she was having a heart attack.  She had a pulmonary embolism and was put on blood thinners to get rid of it. Hematology said some very abnormal issues in her blood work.  She is.undergoing further testing.  The only only thing that changed in her life from her complete physical in August to now is Covid 

Prayers for your daughter and your family, @Billingsley99...

Geez, been a tough real life day for some of our HSN brothers... Hopefully the power of prayer and our thoughts help...

[Drroogh]

3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

My 24 year old daughter worked as a nurse at Riley oncology. She left in August and took same position at another hospital. Prior to testing positive for Covid in November had perfect bill of health. Thursday she was rushed to the ER at the hospital she works at thinking she was having a heart attack.  She had a pulmonary embolism and was put on blood thinners to get rid of it. Hematology said some very abnormal issues in her blood work.  She is.undergoing further testing.  The only only thing that changed in her life from her complete physical in August to now is Covid 

If it wasn't for the brothers and sisters that  I work with, I would think Satan won! Keep believing brother!

Edited February 14, 2021 by Drroogh

[hoosierfan615]

Praying for your daughter and you all Billingsley!

[IU Scott]

4 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

My 24 year old daughter worked as a nurse at Riley oncology. She left in August and took same position at another hospital. Prior to testing positive for Covid in November had perfect bill of health. Thursday she was rushed to the ER at the hospital she works at thinking she was having a heart attack.  She had a pulmonary embolism and was put on blood thinners to get rid of it. Hematology said some very abnormal issues in her blood work.  She is.undergoing further testing.  The only only thing that changed in her life from her complete physical in August to now is Covid 

My prayers to you and your daughter

[5fouls]

COVID-19 vaccine: Seattle woman walks 6 miles through snow for shot (usatoday.com)

[mrflynn03]

57 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

COVID-19 vaccine: Seattle woman walks 6 miles through snow for shot (usatoday.com)

I want to know her secret.  Impressive.  

[FritzIam4IU]

On 2/13/2021 at 4:10 PM, Billingsley99 said:

My 24 year old daughter worked as a nurse at Riley oncology. She left in August and took same position at another hospital. Prior to testing positive for Covid in November had perfect bill of health. Thursday she was rushed to the ER at the hospital she works at thinking she was having a heart attack.  She had a pulmonary embolism and was put on blood thinners to get rid of it. Hematology said some very abnormal issues in her blood work.  She is.undergoing further testing.  The only only thing that changed in her life from her complete physical in August to now is Covid 

I hope she has a full and speedy recovery. Hang in there! Hoping for all good news on her testing.

[mrflynn03]

@Billingsley99

Adding another to my prayer list. Seems to be growing quickly.

Hope for a full and speedy recovery.  

[HoosierFaithful]

This is... not great.

 

[IUFLA]

Just now, HoosierFaithful said:

This is... not great.

 

You mean, I had an option on all those shots they gave me?!?!

Who knew?

[FritzIam4IU]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

You mean, I had an option on all those shots they gave me?!?!

Who knew?

Did you get to reschedule your surgery yet?

[IUFLA]

10 minutes ago, FritzIam4IU said:

Did you get to reschedule your surgery yet?

Not yet...but I'm thinking probably late March or early April if the surgeon's schedule is like it was the first time...