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5 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

I got out of teaching, so I'm not as much help on this as I used to be.

I will say that the idea of a teacher being able to Zoom in and do as good of a job as an in person teacher is ludicrous.

Unfortunately the people who are (air quotes) "concerned about their safety" make it much tougher for the people who actually are concerned about their safety.

Is this a recent change?  If i recall you were coaching golf this past spring. 

Wish you well on you new endeavors.

My best friend is a teacher and the red tape and paperwork is wearing him out. If it wasn't for coaching football he'd probably find something else to do. 

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29 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Is this a recent change?  If i recall you were coaching golf this past spring. 

Wish you well on you new endeavors.

My best friend is a teacher and the red tape and paperwork is wearing him out. If it wasn't for coaching football he'd probably find something else to do. 

It is a recent change. Long story short, but a couple years ago I was the victim of a false accusation, and that was recently used against me. It was an accusation that was completely made up, so with that being used against me, I really felt unsafe staying there.

Unfortunately my school board is corrupt, so everything was done under the table, so nothing was on record and they would never admit to the reason. Obviously would have taken them to court if it was on the record.

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21 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

It is a recent change. Long story short, but a couple years ago I was the victim of a false accusation, and that was recently used against me. It was an accusation that was completely made up, so with that being used against me, I really felt unsafe staying there.

Unfortunately my school board is corrupt, so everything was done under the table, so nothing was on record and they would never admit to the reason. Obviously would have taken them to court if it was on the record.

I was a teacher many, many years ago. Had a student make an accusation, eight grade, against me. Back then, 1971, the teachers word meant something. I left the profession after three years, but the possible implications of that still bother me. Today they are almost impossible to defend against. I hope you are doing well.

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14 minutes ago, cthomas said:

I was a teacher many, many years ago. Had a student make an accusation, eight grade, against me. Back then, 1971, the teachers word meant something. I left the profession after three years, but the possible implications of that still bother me. Today they are almost impossible to defend against. I hope you are doing well.

Thanks! At the time the administration was extremely supportive which really helped me get through it. Unfortunately it's just a hell hole now. Gotta love small town corruption.

Definitely took time to get over, but doing really well now. Going to grad school in January to get my masters in Chemistry. I've considered it for a few years, and this was just the push I needed. 

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Breakthrough Infections, Hospitalizations, and Deaths - some numbers

In IN vaccinated people made up 0.7% of Coved hospitalizations, BUT 4.7% of deaths. That first number is amazing, but the second not so much. A table further down shows that you are 57 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID if you are unvaccinated in Indiana.

Breakthrough infections are definitely happening, especially where the virus is allowed to rage unchecked. But I would take the vaccine over not. 

One thing we are seeing locally is a lot of younger, healthier people coming in to our system with severe Covid symptomes.. And over 99% of these are unvaccinated. It’s been incredibly rare for us to have a vaccinated case needing hospitalization.

We also are leading a massive new NIH study on long haul COVID. We found in our own internal numbers that recovery for many people is proving to be elusive. To me that’s the big selling point of protecting yourself and others around you. Sure, you might get it, feel crappy, but recover. However, lots of people are having severe chronic health issues six months or a year later. 

Really wish that we didn’t need this thread anymore. It’s kind of bullshit that we still have to talk about this. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lostin76 said:

Breakthrough Infections, Hospitalizations, and Deaths - some numbers

In IN vaccinated people made up 0.7% of Coved hospitalizations, BUT 4.7% of deaths. That first number is amazing, but the second not so much. A table further down shows that you are 57 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID if you are unvaccinated in Indiana.

Breakthrough infections are definitely happening, especially where the virus is allowed to rage unchecked. But I would take the vaccine over not. 

One thing we are seeing locally is a lot of younger, healthier people coming in to our system with severe Covid symptomes.. And over 99% of these are unvaccinated. It’s been incredibly rare for us to have a vaccinated case needing hospitalization.

We also are leading a massive new NIH study on long haul COVID. We found in our own internal numbers that recovery for many people is proving to be elusive. To me that’s the big selling point of protecting yourself and others around you. Sure, you might get it, feel crappy, but recover. However, lots of people are having severe chronic health issues six months or a year later. 

Really wish that we didn’t need this thread anymore. It’s kind of bullshit that we still have to talk about this. 

 

 

Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure why stats like this are not sinking in. 

A common vaccination objection I hear is "I'm healthy and am willing to take the risk."

If every 'healthy' person said this, could you imagine what this delta wave would look like now???? 70% (as of today) are vaccinated and others have naturally occurring antibodies. Let's say that 80% of us have an immunity level that will save us from COVID induced hospitalization. That leaves 20% of the population suffering the grunt of the Delta variant. AND this 20% minority are close to filling up ICUs to capacity in Texas, Arkansas, Alabama and Florida.

So I need to ask, what would be happening if only 30% of the population were vaccinated right now? I think it's pretty fair to assume that we'd be in a major shit storm and be far surpassing the ICU bed capacities. Keep in mind that the estimated r naught of Alpha is 2 (1 person can spread it to 2 people). The projected r naught of Delta is 6-7!!!  Because ICU capacity seems to be the threshold for imposing more restrictions, in this scenario we'd be possibly looking at more mask mandates, possible regional lockdowns, delays in elective surgeries, more labor shortages, virtual learning, etc., etc.

The very thing (vaccination) some view an an infringement on their freedom is preventing us from getting into a situation where more perceived freedoms could be taken away, and stalling our progress to a future where these restrictions are far less likely to happen. 

That said, I leave you all with this philosophical quote: "Isn't it ironic, don't you think?"

 

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5 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure why stats like this are not sinking in. 

A common vaccination objection I hear is "I'm healthy and am willing to take the risk."

If every 'healthy' person said this, could you imagine what this delta wave would look like now???? 70% (as of today) are vaccinated and others have naturally occurring antibodies. Let's say that 80% of us have an immunity level that will save us from COVID induced hospitalization. That leaves 20% of the population suffering the grunt of the Delta variant. AND this 20% minority are close to filling up ICUs to capacity in Texas, Arkansas, Alabama and Florida.

So I need to ask, what would be happening if only 30% of the population were vaccinated right now? I think it's pretty fair to assume that we'd be in a major shit storm and be far surpassing the ICU bed capacities. Keep in mind that the estimated r naught of Alpha is 2 (1 person can spread it to 2 people). The projected r naught of Delta is 6-7!!!  Because ICU capacity seems to be the threshold for imposing more restrictions, in this scenario we'd be possibly looking at more mask mandates, possible regional lockdowns, delays in elective surgeries, more labor shortages, virtual learning, etc., etc.

The very thing (vaccination) some view an an infringement on their freedom is preventing us from getting into a situation where more perceived freedoms could be taken away, and stalling our progress to a future where these restrictions are far less likely to happen. 

That said, I leave you all with this philosophical quote: "It's kind of ironic, don't you think?"

 

Do we no longer include herd immunity in these conversations?  Why is the narrative now 100% vaccination for all?  

Im scheduled for an antibody test tomorrow at kroger pharmacy for $25.  My mom is facing a vaccine or job situation, working for a Louisville hospital from the safe confines of her home.  My toddlers preschool teachers at a local Hamilton county Christian church were faced with the same choice.  As many have been pointing out, school age children are far more likely to succumb to random accidents than they are covid.  

If i have antibodies, i will not get the vaccine anytime soon.  Ive explained here before a possible family correlation to severe vaccine reaction in my grandfather.  My mom is literally petrified of the vaccine, far more than she is of covid.  From my readings, it seems the moderna would be the one of forced choice if it comes to it.  So sad that in the free world of the united states of America, the government and massive corporations now have control over our medical decisions.  I remember when this was warned about and its now on our door step.  

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52 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Do we no longer include herd immunity in these conversations?  Why is the narrative now 100% vaccination for all?  

Im scheduled for an antibody test tomorrow at kroger pharmacy for $25.  My mom is facing a vaccine or job situation, working for a Louisville hospital from the safe confines of her home.  My toddlers preschool teachers at a local Hamilton county Christian church were faced with the same choice.  As many have been pointing out, school age children are far more likely to succumb to random accidents than they are covid.  

If i have antibodies, i will not get the vaccine anytime soon.  Ive explained here before a possible family correlation to severe vaccine reaction in my grandfather.  My mom is literally petrified of the vaccine, far more than she is of covid.  From my readings, it seems the moderna would be the one of forced choice if it comes to it.  So sad that in the free world of the united states of America, the government and massive corporations now have control over our medical decisions.  I remember when this was warned about and its now on our door step.  

Regarding herd immunity, I think the only valid answer is that nobody knows at this time. I certainly hope we do, but it's hard to predict because of mutations and not knowing how long antibodies last. Time will tell for both, I guess. In the meantime I'm choosing to be safe, rather than sorry. 

I never said 100% vax for all with no exceptions, especially if there's a legit medical condition you need to worry about. That's a conversation between a patient and a doctor. If you medically can't participate then I personally don't hold that against you. 

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5 hours ago, Lostin76 said:

We also are leading a massive new NIH study on long haul COVID. We found in our own internal numbers that recovery for many people is proving to be elusive. To me that’s the big selling point of protecting yourself and others around you. Sure, you might get it, feel crappy, but recover. However, lots of people are having severe chronic health issues six months or a year later. 

Are you studying the effect of Ivermectin? Apparently, it has helped. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350387746_Ivermectin_IN_Long-Covid_Patients_A_Retrospective_Study

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7 hours ago, Lostin76 said:

Breakthrough Infections, Hospitalizations, and Deaths - some numbers

In IN vaccinated people made up 0.7% of Coved hospitalizations, BUT 4.7% of deaths. That first number is amazing, but the second not so much. A table further down shows that you are 57 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID if you are unvaccinated in Indiana.

Breakthrough infections are definitely happening, especially where the virus is allowed to rage unchecked. But I would take the vaccine over not. 

One thing we are seeing locally is a lot of younger, healthier people coming in to our system with severe Covid symptomes.. And over 99% of these are unvaccinated. It’s been incredibly rare for us to have a vaccinated case needing hospitalization.

We also are leading a massive new NIH study on long haul COVID. We found in our own internal numbers that recovery for many people is proving to be elusive. To me that’s the big selling point of protecting yourself and others around you. Sure, you might get it, feel crappy, but recover. However, lots of people are having severe chronic health issues six months or a year later. 

Really wish that we didn’t need this thread anymore. It’s kind of bullshit that we still have to talk about this. 

 

 

In regards to the 4.7% deaths being breakthrough cases.  I think I read somewhere that most of the breakthrough deaths were among elderly and the frail.  Basically, if you are 75 or younger, the chances of dying from a breakthrough case are miniscule.

 

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1 hour ago, Reacher said:

Are you studying the effect of Ivermectin? Apparently, it has helped. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350387746_Ivermectin_IN_Long-Covid_Patients_A_Retrospective_Study

No specific meds, just studying the incidence, severity, and length of long haul COVID. 

5 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure why stats like this are not sinking in. 

A common vaccination objection I hear is "I'm healthy and am willing to take the risk."

If every 'healthy' person said this, could you imagine what this delta wave would look like now???? 70% (as of today) are vaccinated and others have naturally occurring antibodies. Let's say that 80% of us have an immunity level that will save us from COVID induced hospitalization. That leaves 20% of the population suffering the grunt of the Delta variant. AND this 20% minority are close to filling up ICUs to capacity in Texas, Arkansas, Alabama and Florida.

So I need to ask, what would be happening if only 30% of the population were vaccinated right now? I think it's pretty fair to assume that we'd be in a major shit storm and be far surpassing the ICU bed capacities. Keep in mind that the estimated r naught of Alpha is 2 (1 person can spread it to 2 people). The projected r naught of Delta is 6-7!!!  Because ICU capacity seems to be the threshold for imposing more restrictions, in this scenario we'd be possibly looking at more mask mandates, possible regional lockdowns, delays in elective surgeries, more labor shortages, virtual learning, etc., etc.

The very thing (vaccination) some view an an infringement on their freedom is preventing us from getting into a situation where more perceived freedoms could be taken away, and stalling our progress to a future where these restrictions are far less likely to happen. 

That said, I leave you all with this philosophical quote: "Isn't it ironic, don't you think?"

 

It’s ironic for sure and I just can’t understand (well, I can, but I can’t say it) why people have chosen to politicize this issue when vaccinations weren’t such a freedom thing back in the day. I don’t recall getting to say no in bootcamp when I got a dozen vaccines. And I had to bring my little vaccination card to enroll in school as a kid. 

We could have been largely done with this by now, but beyond the vaccines many people can’t seem to stand having a piece of cloth on their face when they walk into a store.

I see kids on the playground running around and playing with masks on all day, but some grownups can’t seem to swing it. 

Incredibly frustrating that so many politicians are choosing to extend the pandemic. 

5 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Do we no longer include herd immunity in these conversations?  Why is the narrative now 100% vaccination for all?  

Im scheduled for an antibody test tomorrow at kroger pharmacy for $25.  My mom is facing a vaccine or job situation, working for a Louisville hospital from the safe confines of her home.  My toddlers preschool teachers at a local Hamilton county Christian church were faced with the same choice.  As many have been pointing out, school age children are far more likely to succumb to random accidents than they are covid.  

If i have antibodies, i will not get the vaccine anytime soon.  Ive explained here before a possible family correlation to severe vaccine reaction in my grandfather.  My mom is literally petrified of the vaccine, far more than she is of covid.  From my readings, it seems the moderna would be the one of forced choice if it comes to it.  So sad that in the free world of the united states of America, the government and massive corporations now have control over our medical decisions.  I remember when this was warned about and its now on our door step.  

I recall you mentioning that about your grandfather and that is tough when you know someone who had a sever reaction. That definitely makes it a more fraught decision when you know someone who had a bad reaction. My second Pfizer dose really hit me hard, but it only lasted 24 hours. 

The government really doesn’t have “control over your medical decisions,” but businesses and local governments should be able to protect their citizens with policy. This is a serious disease and people are free to not get vaccinated or choose not to wear masks, but there may be consequences that accompany that decision. 

 

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5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

In regards to the 4.7% deaths being breakthrough cases.  I think I read somewhere that most of the breakthrough deaths were among elderly and the frail.  Basically, if you are 75 or younger, the chances of dying from a breakthrough case are miniscule.

 

You are exactly right, I saw that further down in the article too. Those are mostly elderly with other complications most likely. 

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26 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

No specific meds, just studying the incidence, severity, and length of long haul COVID. 

It’s ironic for sure and I just can’t understand (well, I can, but I can’t say it) why people have chosen to politicize this issue when vaccinations weren’t such a freedom thing back in the day. I don’t recall getting to say no in bootcamp when I got a dozen vaccines. And I had to bring my little vaccination card to enroll in school as a kid. 

We could have been largely done with this by now, but beyond the vaccines many people can’t seem to stand having a piece of cloth on their face when they walk into a store.

I see kids on the playground running around and playing with masks on all day, but some grownups can’t seem to swing it. 

Incredibly frustrating that so many politicians are choosing to extend the pandemic. 

I recall you mentioning that about your grandfather and that is tough when you know someone who had a sever reaction. That definitely makes it a more fraught decision when you know someone who had a bad reaction. My second Pfizer dose really hit me hard, but it only lasted 24 hours. 

The government really doesn’t have “control over your medical decisions,” but businesses and local governments should be able to protect their citizens with policy. This is a serious disease and people are free to not get vaccinated or choose not to wear masks, but there may be consequences that accompany that decision. 

 

When a majority allow business and and government to dictate the terms of their medical decisions, its exactly the same thing because the masses have condoned it, it can then be forced upon the unwilling.  Thats exactly what is slowly happening.  What happens the next time if you are on the fence or want more information or more time to play out but its forced upon you?  I cant easily move to another fire department at 40 years old and im clearly not young or set enough to retire, so I can't pick up and move to a state that has proactively set up bans on vaccine passports or forced vaccinations, if it came to it. 

Is New York city literally using vac passports for bars and restaurants?  Or is that propaganda bs?  The next step will 100% be grocery stores.  This isn't political and that should be frightening for everyone.  Why people willy nilly blow these scenarios off when they are beginning to happen in parts of our country is really depressing.  I need 15 more years before I can bail and get a pension.  Id like to raise my kids in the US but then again I have always felt a call to 3rd world missions and a different purpose than just living the good life and living it up.  

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3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

When a majority allow business and and government to dictate the terms of their medical decisions, its exactly the same thing because the masses have condoned it, it can then be forced upon the unwilling.  Thats exactly what is slowly happening.  What happens the next time if you are on the fence or want more information or more time to play out but its forced upon you?  I cant easily move to another fire department at 40 years old and im clearly not young or set enough to retire, so I can't pick up and move to a state that has proactively set up bans on vaccine passports or forced vaccinations, if it came to it. 

Is New York city literally using vac passports for bars and restaurants?  Or is that propaganda bs?  The next step will 100% be grocery stores.  This isn't political and that should be frightening for everyone.  Why people willy nilly blow these scenarios off when they are beginning to happen in parts of our country is really depressing.  I need 15 more years before I can bail and get a pension.  Id like to raise my kids in the US but then again I have always felt a call to 3rd world missions and a different purpose than just living the good life and living it up.  

Yes, NYC is requiring proof of vaccine to dine indoors, see plays, etc. I applaud it. You can dine outdoors or not go to see plays if you don’t want to get the vaccine. If you lived here with 24/7 sirens wailing and over 800 people a day dying in the city from COVID, you might understand the NYC policy a little bit better. It’s not willy nilly. 

I do understand your point of view, but I just don’t agree with it when it comes to COVID. This disease is no joke and it requires everyone to take it seriously if we want to get past it. 

There are lots of things my government does or spends money on that I don’t approve of. What can I do? I can choose not to pay taxes and contribute to that, but there will most likely be consequences. 

I also didn’t want to get an anthrax vaccine in boot camp, but I did. Lots of things I don’t like to have to do. 

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2 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Yes, NYC is requiring proof of vaccine to dine indoors, see plays, etc. I applaud it. You can dine outdoors or not go to see plays if you don’t want to get the vaccine. If you lived here with 24/7 sirens wailing and over 800 people a day dying in the city from COVID, you might understand the NYC policy a little bit better. It’s not willy nilly. 

I do understand your point of view, but I just don’t agree with it when it comes to COVID. This disease is no joke and it requires everyone to take it seriously if we want to get past it. 

There are lots of things my government does or spends money on that I don’t approve of. What can I do? I can choose not to pay taxes and contribute to that, but there will most likely be consequences. 

I also didn’t want to get an anthrax vaccine in boot camp, but I did. Lots of things I don’t like to have to do. 

I'm not anti vax.  Ive made that clear.  Im 100% against forced vax and show me your papers for services.  We may have had excessive deaths with covid but there is a segment of the population that when push comes to shove, they will shoot.  Im not one, i dont even carry.  I know where to go though if it hits the fan.  Thats the world Im afraid of heading to.  Im afraid thats the direction this thing goes if everyone, yes in my opinion and from my seat in the bleachers, goes willy nilly about it without little questioning or resistance if necessary.  Its not conspiracy theory anymore when it is actually happening.  

Speaking of my seat in the bleachers.  I'm just north of downtown.  We had never been so slow in years.  City wide run loads were down massively.  Eskinazi and Methodist set up covid tents.  They were for show and worst case scenario, they did not get used.  Aside from a few floors, the hospitals and grounds were ghost towns.  Last I checked the average age of death from or with covid was 78, really super close to the national average typical life expectancy.  And we destroyed livlihoods for that and the massive corporations got filthier richer.  Too go along with my concerns about government and corporate overreach into personal health decisions.  What's next?

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18 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I'm not anti vax.  Ive made that clear.  Im 100% against forced vax and show me your papers for services.  We may have had excessive deaths with covid but there is a segment of the population that when push comes to shove, they will shoot.  Im not one, i dont even carry.  I know where to go though if it hits the fan.  Thats the world Im afraid of heading to.  Im afraid thats the direction this thing goes if everyone, yes in my opinion and from my seat in the bleachers, goes willy nilly about it without little questioning or resistance if necessary.  Its not conspiracy theory anymore when it is actually happening.  

Speaking of my seat in the bleachers.  I'm just north of downtown.  We had never been so slow in years.  City wide run loads were down massively.  Eskinazi and Methodist set up covid tents.  They were for show and worst case scenario, they did not get used.  Aside from a few floors, the hospitals and grounds were ghost towns.  Last I checked the average age of death from or with covid was 78, really super close to the national average typical life expectancy.  And we destroyed livlihoods for that and the massive corporations got filthier richer.  Too go along with my concerns about government and corporate overreach into personal health decisions.  What's next?

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you were anti-vax. And I share your concern in your first paragraph for sure. I’m also afraid that we are heading to that type of world. The video today of an angry mob in TN yelling at a doctor who testified at a school board meeting in favor of masks was chilling. 

I’m glad you guys are slow on runs (I lived on Mass Ave across from the firehouse in Indy when I was there). I wish that was our experience when this started. We just don’t want to get back to anything approaching that here locally, which I don’t actually think will happen. But, there are a LOT of people in a small sapce and lots of visitors from other states. I do have one employee out of 50 that has chosen not to be vaccinated. They still have a job, but we do request them to get tested every two weeks.  For what it’s worth, I’ve been very respectful of her decision, while also trying to tow the line with policy. 

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2 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Want to know why people are fed up with all that is going on policy wise?

Lollapalooza went on without a word, but Sturgis was called a super spreader. The hypocrisy and lack of consistency put us where we are. 

Lollapalooza was STUPID. As bad as Sturgis. I recall a lot of people I know pointing out the stupidity of Lollapalooza. 

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41 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Yes, NYC is requiring proof of vaccine to dine indoors, see plays, etc. I applaud it. You can dine outdoors or not go to see plays if you don’t want to get the vaccine. If you lived here with 24/7 sirens wailing and over 800 people a day dying in the city from COVID, you might understand the NYC policy a little bit better. It’s not willy nilly. 

I do understand your point of view, but I just don’t agree with it when it comes to COVID. This disease is no joke and it requires everyone to take it seriously if we want to get past it. 

There are lots of things my government does or spends money on that I don’t approve of. What can I do? I can choose not to pay taxes and contribute to that, but there will most likely be consequences. 

I also didn’t want to get an anthrax vaccine in boot camp, but I did. Lots of things I don’t like to have to do. 

I was speaking to a relative over the weekend visiting from Switzerland. They have what he called the 3G rule. You are good on public transportation, public places, etc if you have been  vaccinated, have proof of antibodies or have had covid. To me the last 2 sound kind of the same but my point is it seems a lot more science driven when you are allowing antibodies to count equally as vaccines. I've brought this up many times here but here it goes once more- Why are antibodies not sufficient here in the US? or NYC? That is not unreasonable. When you have rules that don't seem to based in science, and unequal application, you end up with a mess. it begs the question- why?

 

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12 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

Want to know why people are fed up with all that is going on policy wise?

Lollapalooza went on without a word, but Sturgis was called a super spreader. The hypocrisy and lack of consistency put us where we are. 

I agree Lollapalooza was not a smart decision. That said, they did require proof of vaccination and/or a negative test to attend. Also, 2 weeks ago Chicago was not close experiencing  the spike other cities were. 
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/28/1021946563/lollapalooza-to-require-vaccination-card-or-negative-test-to-attend-the-festival

 

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7 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I agree Lollapalooza was not a smart decision. That said, they did require proof of vaccination and/or a negative test to attend. Also, 2 weeks ago Chicago was not close experiencing  the spike other cities were. 
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/28/1021946563/lollapalooza-to-require-vaccination-card-or-negative-test-to-attend-the-festival

 

I saw that, just wonder how many were able to be checked. 

I was speaking more to the messaging but used those 2 as an example. There are other more concerning things going on that's being allowed to happen but can't mention it here. 

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