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35 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

 

 

Isn't the first graph a bit unfair using percentage to make one point when none of the countries above us in vaccination percentage is even within spitting distance of us total population wise?

What are the raw numbers?

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1 minute ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I mean, COVID doesn't care about how big our country is.  And it's not like our ability to vaccinate or our supply is the limiting factor on our vaccination percentage right now, so that is a bit moot IMO.

Broadly speaking, that's just a list of the developed world.

It might not care, but size does matter...

And the bolded is not true if you look at the published reasons minorities aren't getting vaccinated at the same rate as Caucasians.

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30 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Isn't the first graph a bit unfair using percentage to make one point when none of the countries above us in vaccination percentage is even within spitting distance of us total population wise?

What are the raw numbers?

It was the 2nd graph that has me thinking. There comes a point that a measurement graduation becomes way too fine. Not to diminish any one life, but we are talking a difference of ~2 per One million data points. Statistically that is pretty insignificant especially considering all of the other variables. I suspect that is well within standard FDA drug approval range 1) I don't know for sure and 2) that is just to put it into perspective.     

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35 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I am not an expert in public health and I am not on the front lines, and the challenges to lower income and minority vaccination are absolutely true, but I would bet most public health experts would currently say vaccine dropoff is about willingness, not availability.

And to me that is geared to vilify one section of the population...

Look, I understand what some people are trying to accomplish...get as many as possible vaccinated to get back to a normal life. But you also have to respect the judgement of people who are not getting the vaccination for whatever reason.

If it's a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" as the popular saying goes, what are you worried about? Get your vaccination, wear your mask, and let people live their lives...it's not like we do a very good job of protecting people from themselves anyway when we look at things like cancer, drug addiction, alcoholism, and obesity. 

I got the vaccine for a couple of reasons...I had the virus and don't want it again (although how well I'm protected is debatable at this point) and I didn't feel like wearing a mask all the time when I do go back to my office or submitting to testing twice a week...my wife won't get it because she's had bad reactions to vaccines (notably flu shots) in the past...she's allowed to make that decision without being reviled or berated...

My 2¢...

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It will be interesting to see how genetics play into the infection rate.  I am convinced I've been exposed to this virus many times, I mean, it's literally all around me and yet, I have four friends where one spouse has gotten the virus and the other spouse did not even though they were unvaccinated and in close proximity to the infected spouse, in a couple of cases, literally cared for their spouse without any thought to any distancing.

As much as I see this virus around me here in southwestern Indiana, it's hard to imagine that we aren't at least close to herd immunity.  I was at the Hard Truth Distillery just east of Nashville over the weekend and the place was packed with very few masks in sight.  We bought the bottle my wife was after (a peanut butter whiskey) and moved on  Did outdoor dining at Big Woods there.  Neat place, but all I could think of was super spreader.

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4 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

One of my favorite follows on Twitter from this terrible time, a brilliant scientist: 

tl;dr:

  • He estimates, based on the raw number of cases, that we might be exactly at the Delta peak.  
  • Delta is the dominant strain globally and "may displace other variants [including Mu] in the coming weeks"
  • It will have taken 1yr for Delta to basically encompass the entire world, whereas it normally takes the seasonal flu 2-5 years
  • He says it is "highly likely" that the next impactful variant will be a sub-variant of Delta and recommends immediate updating of vaccines to be prepared.  He says this would be an "easy win"

The latest I've seen says we are rolling over and ,hopefully, past the peak.

image_2 (4)

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People are allowed to get the vaccine or not, but I'm fully entitled to have my own views on their decision - it obviously impacts me too.  If anyone doesn't think it does, I'm not sure they've been paying attention for the past 18 months or the past 279 pages of this thread ;).  Public health crisis impacts all of the public! 

I didn't make the graphic I posted, but I imagine the designer had a simple goal: show that the US, standing relatively alone among developed countries, has a vastly lower vaccination rate.  In turn, we also have significantly more deaths per capita right now with the surging Delta variant.  We can parse those two relatively simple statements all we want, but at the end of the day, this isn't complicated: we have a large portion of the population unwilling to take the vaccine and we're really the only major, developed country to have such a problem at such a scale.  It appears likely that it is leading to a significantly higher number of deaths.  This is preventable.

 

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18 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I'm fully entitled to have my own views on their decision - it obviously impacts me too.

Of course you are...but if statistics are to be believed, the chances of a breakthrough case dying is infinitesimal...

As I said, if you have your shot and want to mask up, why are you worried?

Live and let live...I'm sure a lot of us do things others don't agree with...

Edited by IUFLA
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1 hour ago, HoosierFaithful said:

I am not an expert in public health and I am not on the front lines, and the challenges to lower income and minority vaccination are absolutely true, but I would bet most public health experts would currently say vaccine dropoff is about willingness, not availability.

My uncle helps with 3 near East Side Indy Churches....all low income areas.  He and others have been offering rides (free) to vaccine sites for the last 15 months or so. Using just his main church I would say vax rates are somewhere in the 10-15% range....and the number of people who keep getting Covid have been rising. I ask him why people won't get the shot. Lack of trust of all things government/police all wrapped into one has been a pretty consistent response. Edit-I know the police have nothing to do with this....but in some communities it's all one big I don't trust them world. 

Obviously those numbers aren't a measuring stick of the country but just real numbers from the ground level on Indy's East Side. 

Edited by Seeking6
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1 minute ago, Seeking6 said:

My uncle helps with 3 near East Side Indy Churches....all low income areas.  He and others have been offering rides (free) to vaccine sites for the last 15 months or so. Using just his main church I would say vax rates are somewhere in the 10-15% range....and the number of people who keep getting Covid have been rising. I ask him why people won't get the shot. Lack of trust of all things government/police all wrapped into one has been a pretty consistent response. Edit-I know the police have nothing to do with this....but in some communities it's all one big I don't trust them world. 

Obviously those numbers aren't a measuring stick of the country but just real numbers from the ground level on Indy's East Side. 

I've seen the Tuskegee experiment mentioned in places as one reason for lack of trust. 

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1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

Of course you are...but if statistics are to be believed, the chances of a breakthrough case dying is infinitesimal...

As I said, if you have your shot and want to mask up, why are you worried?

Most people who are vaccinated aren't worried. The issue is more to do with hospitals and mandates. If everyone were to be vaccinated, there would be little chance of overrunning hospitals, and mask and other mandates wouldn't be necessary nearly as much.

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16 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

People are allowed to get the vaccine or not, but I'm fully entitled to have my own views on their decision - it obviously impacts me too.  If anyone doesn't think it does, I'm not sure they've been paying attention for the past 18 months or the past 279 pages of this thread ;).  Public health crisis impacts all of the public! 

I didn't make the graphic I posted, but I imagine the designer had a simple goal: show that the US, standing relatively alone among developed countries, has a vastly lower vaccination rate.  In turn, we also have significantly more deaths per capita right now with the surging Delta variant.  We can parse those two relatively simple statements all we want, but at the end of the day, this isn't complicated: we have a large portion of the population unwilling to take the vaccine and we're really the only major, developed country to have such a problem at such a scale.  It appears likely that it is leading to a significantly higher number of deaths.  This is preventable.

 

We know numbers and stats can be spun to say anything. Its been pointed out plenty to me ;) 

If vaccines were the answer, why is Israel currently having such a problem? 

If America truly is the land of the free, there has to be freedom to make these individual choices. That freedom has made the US great and impacted the entire world for the better in some manner. Countless Americans have made the ultimate sacrifice for these freedoms. It may well be that there is a downside to that freedom but if we limit freedoms, we change the identity of our country. We might as well find a new motto. 

In other news-

The MU variant is in 49 states already. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/what-we-know-about-mu-the-who-s-latest-variant-of-interest-69161

Lastly, FOIA requests show Fauci was indeed funding research at Wuhan and subsequently lied about it. He is the wrong leader with his conflicts of interest. https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/

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56 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Most people who are vaccinated aren't worried. The issue is more to do with hospitals and mandates. If everyone were to be vaccinated, there would be little chance of overrunning hospitals, and mask and other mandates wouldn't be necessary nearly as much.

Hospitals have been stressed even before the vaccine was available, and we've always met the challenge. 

And I'm not sure understanding your point about masks and mandates...As I said, you want to wear one, feel free. If a business I want to patronize mandates that I wear a mask to shop there, ok, I'll do that...other than that, I see no use for them...

There are dozens of reasons people aren't getting the vaccine, and I respect their right not be be vaccinated whatever the reason. I don't see what's so hard about understanding that point of view...

 

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5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Hospitals have been stressed even before the vaccine was available, and we've always met the challenge. 

And I'm not sure understanding your point about masks and mandates...As I said, you want to wear one, feel free. If a business I want to patronize mandates that I wear a mask to shop there, ok, I'll do that...other than that, I see no use for them...

There are dozens of reasons people aren't getting the vaccine, and I respect their right not be be vaccinated whatever the reason. I don't see what's so hard about understanding that point of view...

 

Never said I didn't understand anybody's point of view. Just stating that you saying vaccinated people were worried might not be the truth for most people.

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3 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Never said I didn't understand anybody's point of view. Just stating that you saying vaccinated people were worried might not be the truth for most people.

They seem to beat the drum the loudest...

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1 hour ago, HoosierFaithful said:

People are allowed to get the vaccine or not, but I'm fully entitled to have my own views on their decision - it obviously impacts me too.  If anyone doesn't think it does, I'm not sure they've been paying attention for the past 18 months or the past 279 pages of this thread ;).  Public health crisis impacts all of the public! 

I didn't make the graphic I posted, but I imagine the designer had a simple goal: show that the US, standing relatively alone among developed countries, has a vastly lower vaccination rate.  In turn, we also have significantly more deaths per capita right now with the surging Delta variant.  We can parse those two relatively simple statements all we want, but at the end of the day, this isn't complicated: we have a large portion of the population unwilling to take the vaccine and we're really the only major, developed country to have such a problem at such a scale.  It appears likely that it is leading to a significantly higher number of deaths.  This is preventable.

 

First off brother I agree with you! Among several reasons I got vaccinated was so I wouldn’t have to wear a mask. And yet here I am having to mask up each day at work to protect the unvaccinated!😠

However I have to call out the US standing relatively alone. Fully vaccinated in America 53.8%. I work for a Japanese company, Japan 48%. My friend in Russia, Russia 26.6% (although I don’t blame the populace, their only choice is a vaccine named Sputnik). People in Russia don’t trust pharmaceuticals in general! My friends, friend in Italy one of the hardest hit nations, 62.4%.
America is while behind it is hardly an outlier!

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3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

They seem to beat the drum the loudest...

2 ladies I work with think unvaccinated should be denied medical care.  Seems harsh considering I pay my premium same as them.

I didn't get my vaccine and they have no idea I walk amongst them. 

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I was sick for 3 weeks last January.  Added to my vitamin regimine.

I take A,C,D, elderberry, magnesium and whey protein.  And drink a ginger turmeric tea made fresh.

Haven't had so much as a sniffle since then. Even cleared up my sinus issues. 

Point is, the vaccine was and is being sold as a cure all solution when a multi faceted approach is likely the best way. The vaccine is a useful tool but not the only one. I will remain on the fence. 

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17 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I was sick for 3 weeks last January.  Added to my vitamin regimine.

I take A,C,D, elderberry, magnesium and whey protein.  And drink a ginger turmeric tea made fresh.

Haven't had so much as a sniffle since then. Even cleared up my sinus issues. 

Point is, the vaccine was and is being sold as a cure all solution when a multi faceted approach is likely the best way. The vaccine is a useful tool but not the only one. I will remain on the fence. 

Won't speak for others....but I do wish the exercise or immune system natural build up was a bigger part of things in the Spring of 2020. I know it's easy to say now but exercise and keeping the body in good shape to me is numero uno in fighting off viruses....of any kind. Of course I'm sure there is an article that says exercise wouldn't help...haha!

 

 

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