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Reacher
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3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

So, who is the Delta variant killing?  These comparison numbers from Indiana give some clue. 

On 8/12, here were the CUMULATIVE (March 2020-today) death percentages in Indiana since the start of the pandemic by age group  

0-19 = .1%

20-29 = .2%

30-39 = .6%

40-49 = 1.8%

50-59 = 5.7%

60-69 = 15.3%

70-79 = 25.8%

80+ = 50.4%

 

Here are the CUMULATIVE (March 2020-today) death percentages as of today, roughly 30 days, for the same age groups.  Keep in mind that these do not just represent the last 30 days, but rather from the start of the pandemic.

0-19 = .1%

20-29 = .2%

30-39 = .7%

40-49 = 2.1%

50-59 = 6.0%

60-69 = 15.6%

70-79 = 25.7%

80+ = 49.6%

What do these numbers tell us.  It tells me that people over 80 are no longer dying of Covid in order for the CUMULATIVE percentage to drop nearly a full point in less than 30 days.  It also tells me that Delta is not killing any more people under 30 than what the original strain did.  But, for those between 30-70, the Delta variant is killing more than the original strain.   I'll let everyone reach their own conclusion on why that is.  I have a pretty good idea.

 

Im not a smart man, ill admit.  But what i see from that chart is that basically 50% of the deaths are 80+ years old.  Combined with the data we know about obesity pretty much being the common denominator, I'm not exactly sure or what else can be truly derived from this data set alone.

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4 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Im not a smart man, ill admit.  But what i see from that chart is that basically 50% of the deaths are 80+ years old.  Combined with the data we know about obesity pretty much being the common denominator, I'm not exactly sure or what else can be truly derived from this data set alone.

The important point is the 80+% has gone down by a level worthy of being called statistical significance over the last 30 days.  That's even more noteworthy because we are in the middle of a significant surge.  Pinpoint the reason why those 80+ are no longer the highest at risk group, and take meaningful action based on that information, and we have a leg up in fighting this disease.

 

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5 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Im not a smart man, ill admit.  But what i see from that chart is that basically 50% of the deaths are 80+ years old.  Combined with the data we know about obesity pretty much being the common denominator, I'm not exactly sure or what else can be truly derived from this data set alone.

It's the big plan to save Social Security.

 

I kid.. probably.

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14 hours ago, 5fouls said:

The important point is the 80+% has gone down by a level worthy of being called statistical significance over the last 30 days.  That's even more noteworthy because we are in the middle of a significant surge.  Pinpoint the reason why those 80+ are no longer the highest at risk group, and take meaningful action based on that information, and we have a leg up in fighting this disease.

 

This is brutal to say or ask but was the herd of 80 plus old people not thinned last year?

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3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

This is brutal to say or ask but was the herd of 80 plus old people not thinned last year?

It was.  But, with the rate Delta is taking out 40 and 50 year olds, there's another variable in play here.  An unhealthy 45 year old should still have as much or more success fighting off any virus than a healthy 87 year old.  That is, unless the 87 year old has something the 45 year old does not.  

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2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

It was.  But, with the rate Delta is taking out 40 and 50 year olds, there's another variable in play here.  An unhealthy 45 year old should still have as much or more success fighting off any virus than a healthy 87 year old.  That is, unless the 87 year old has something the 45 year old does not.  

Maybe you're on to something. Wouldn't this be the 19th sars virus these old timers have faced?

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A previously unknown fact has emerged that lab tampering was undertaken on MERS-like coronaviruses, which are even deadlier than their SARS-like relatives.

 

And this from an article in the Telegraph https://archive.fo/RmJgT

Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19, a major study has found 
Children who face the highest risk of a “cardiac adverse event” are boys aged between 12 and 15 following two doses of a vaccine, according to new research from the US. 
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4 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

No basis in science... for vaccines?  This whole conversation has gotten a bit warped.

I think he's saying there's no basis in science in the decisions being made, not the vaccines themselves...although the effectiveness of the vaccines seems to be falling...

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17 minutes ago, Reacher said:

You know there is no basis in science when postal workers, and certain other groups, are excluded. 

I just think the decision is vindictive since they seem to think rural Americans are the only ones unvaccinated and it sets a very bad precedence bypassing congress and just making up rules.

Also, why do vaccinated need protected? They got the vaccine after all. 

I'm not anti vax, by all means get it if you want it.  

I just don't appreciate having things forced on me. 

Edited by mrflynn03
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https://www.npr.org/2021/08/29/1032169566/the-u-s-has-a-long-precedent-for-vaccine-mandates

 

Quote

And, you know, the first vaccine mandate law was enacted in the United States in 1809 for smallpox. But the Supreme Court in 1905 in a very famous case called Jacobson v. Massachusetts upheld a Cambridge City law, which required smallpox vaccination. That was something where the Supreme Court said that we don't have a right to place other people at risk. And by 1922, in another case, Justice Brandeis, writing for unanimous court, upheld childhood school mandates, calling it settled law.

We've had vaccine mandates for over a century without much fuss

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3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think he's saying there's no basis in science in the decisions being made, not the vaccines themselves...although the effectiveness of the vaccines seems to be falling...

Really? Mine and your definition of failure must be drastically different. 

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10 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Really? Mine and your definition of failure must be drastically different. 

I didn't say "failure." I said "effectiveness."

It's indisputable that the vaccine isn't as effective as initially advertised...

Maybe you mistook "falling" for "failing."

Predisposed notions about me? 😉

Edited by IUFLA
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Went to see Hadestown on Broadway last night and it was easy to enter by showing vaccination status by phone or card. Didn’t slow anything down and it was nice to see a show again.

Had dinner beforehand and same deal. Flash your ID and vax status and enjoy. Felt no different than showing your ID to enter a bar. 

As far as mandates go, nothing new for the US. We’ve done this before, beginning with Washington making troops getting vaccinated. Also don’t recall throwing a hissy fit when I had to get them in school or the military, but we are now a hissy fit society.

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40 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/29/1032169566/the-u-s-has-a-long-precedent-for-vaccine-mandates

 

We've had vaccine mandates for over a century without much fuss

Comparing small pox which killed roughly 30% of the people that got it to Covid 19 that kills roughly .5% is like comparing apples to oranges. Not a good example in my view. I suspect that the Supreme Court in 2021 will look quite differently at this then 1905. The Supreme Court also ruled in 1927 in Buck vs Bell it was ok to sterilize a young women because her offspring would be a burden on public welfare which led to over 60,000 forced sterilizations (many many suspect and racially motivated). Doesn't mean a more modern court would still rule the same way considering the threat of Covid to most people is basically the equivilant of a bad cold. I think vaccines are wonderful, including thankful for this one which has saved many lives. But eliminating someone's right to work...seems a bit extreme. I'm sure it is all going to the courts so we will just see how it plays out.

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37 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Went to see Hadestown on Broadway last night and it was easy to enter by showing vaccination status by phone or card. Didn’t slow anything down and it was nice to see a show again.

Had dinner beforehand and same deal. Flash your ID and vax status and enjoy. Felt no different than showing your ID to enter a bar. 

As far as mandates go, nothing new for the US. We’ve done this before, beginning with Washington making troops getting vaccinated. Also don’t recall throwing a hissy fit when I had to get them in school or the military, but we are now a hissy fit society.

Glad you could enjoy your evening. It will be interesting to see how far this goes and how many places would adopt that policy.

Question for you. Did it make you feel any safer knowing no unvaccinated people was there? Not sure I understand the purpose of this policy since we know vaccinated people are getting covid and can spread it and have just as high viral loads as unvaccinated. What is the policy there to do? I also wonder do you think this policy is racist? Since black people by percentage are more likely not to be vaccinated and would be disproportionately affected by this policy. I seem to remember hearing that voter ID laws were unconstitutional because it would disproportionally effect black people who it is claimed they are much less likely to have an ID because of their social and economical situation. I just find this stuff fascinating.

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1 hour ago, Lostin76 said:

Went to see Hadestown on Broadway last night and it was easy to enter by showing vaccination status by phone or card. Didn’t slow anything down and it was nice to see a show again.

Had dinner beforehand and same deal. Flash your ID and vax status and enjoy. Felt no different than showing your ID to enter a bar. 

As far as mandates go, nothing new for the US. We’ve done this before, beginning with Washington making troops getting vaccinated. Also don’t recall throwing a hissy fit when I had to get them in school or the military, but we are now a hissy fit society.

And I should be clear when I say “hissy fit” I’m talking about the politicians and paid hacks on social media. Not targeting anyone here. I know I disagree on this topic with several on here, but respect them too much to trash them like that. I’m just exhausted by all the posturing and outrage on social media. 

56 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Glad you could enjoy your evening. It will be interesting to see how far this goes and how many places would adopt that policy.

Question for you. Did it make you feel any safer knowing no unvaccinated people was there? Not sure I understand the purpose of this policy since we know vaccinated people are getting covid and can spread it and have just as high viral loads as unvaccinated. What is the policy there to do? I also wonder do you think this policy is racist? Since black people by percentage are more likely not to be vaccinated and would be disproportionately affected by this policy. I seem to remember hearing that voter ID laws were unconstitutional because it would disproportionally effect black people who it is claimed they are much less likely to have an ID because of their social and economical situation. I just find this stuff fascinating.

To me, it’s a carrot and a stick thing. Vaccinations are for the greater good of society. They work better with more people vaccinated. If people don’t want to get vaccinated, then fine. But there may be repercussions and restrictions. If people want to participate fully in society, then get vaccinated. I keep saying this. I didn’t want a dozen vaccines in boot camp that I knew I wouldn’t need, but I got them. 

I have had and do have some reservations about the topic when it comes to race. There are serious historical issues to consider with Tusjkeegee, etc. But not enough reservations in my mind to exclude an entire race of people from being vaccinated. One thing to note, I have around 50 employees and faculty I’m responsible for. One of them is unvaccinated. She happens to be black. We have discussed this multiple times and she and I don’t agree on the topic. However, I did help her get her medical exemption and will help her navigate policy changes moving forward. 

I’m honestly just sick of arguing about it. If people don’t want to wear masks/get vaccinated, fine. But I have very little to no sympathy for their complaining and arguing about it. I’m more concerned about over 1,500 Americans dying every day from COVID when we couldn’t have been largely past this. 

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