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Reacher

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27 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

First, it's an internal poll taken by a hospitals to determine what is best for safety and their bottom line. Why would they want to skew it with slanted questions? Wouldn't they want the most accurate analysis? It doesn't make sense. I'm sure no hospital administrators want to be in the position to fire staff because as everybody has mentioned it's bad for business. Sometimes I think many are trying to make things way more political than they are. This is a business decision made by a business that has the right to determine what is best for them, their patients and their staff. 

I wish I knew why they would skew questions, but until I see how people are asked these polling questions and what options are given to them, I very much question if the poll was skewed.  For all we know, Pfizer and Moderna could be paying them fat subsidies to push the vaccine.

Personally, I'm not convinced that mandating vaccines for everyone IS a good business decision, but it wouldn't be the first time management of a company or entity has made a bad business decision.  Only time will tell, but I think it's absolutely moronic to fire a valuable nurse or doctor who has antibodies and doesn't feel a need to get the vaccine.  So yes, I very much question their judgment in this instance, especially when a lot of European countries have already made the shift to seeing antibodies as valuable as a vaccine.

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48 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Sorry, I wasn’t referring to the questionable, clickbait titled Yahoo news story, just your mention of the death of the vaccinated senior citizen. That is the whole crux of the article I posted. 

 

And all was talking about was the that this vaccine doesn't sound like it is all that great for the Delta variant, and in fact it sounds like it could be potentialy bad for some older people.

As for the questionable clickbait title you referenced, i like to read past the headlines and read the actual article. You might try that lol. j/k 😀

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1 hour ago, Lostin76 said:

It’s not in most places, but in many healthcare centers, it is. 

 

1 hour ago, Lostin76 said:

Many top tier NE health systems require employees to get flu shots every year. We’ve done it every year since I’ve been here. 

You don’t hear about it, b/c the flu hasn’t been politicized like COVID. 

Doesn't that go against state law?

"New York
Hospitals must report employees' vaccination status
Employees can decline a flu shot without an exemption"

I'm not trying to be a smartass here...I'm just curious...

 

 

 

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The UK experienced its Delta wave before we did. They are probably a good canary in the coal mine.

Now 87% of new hospitalizations in Wales are from the vaccinated. This does not match what we were told would happen (vaccines prevent covid and if you catch it, it will keep you out of the hospital).

Seems like we are on the way to seeing that here?

https://gov.wales/covid-19-wales-situational-report-24-september-2021

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Reacher said:

The UK experienced its Delta wave before we did. They are probably a good canary in the coal mine.

Now 87% of new hospitalizations in Wales are from the vaccinated. This does not match what we were told would happen (vaccines prevent covid and if you catch it, it will keep you out of the hospital).

Seems like we are on the way to seeing that here?

https://gov.wales/covid-19-wales-situational-report-24-september-2021

 

 

You know that data only means that we here are about to make the unvaxxed pay a price for causing it! 

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40 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Sorry to hear that. I hope it's mild for all of you...good luck

Thanks, man. I'm almost 69, so a little of this virus goes a long way.. My boss has been off work since July with complications and a coworker who just retired has a son who is on a ventilator, so I feel much more fortunate than they.. 

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1 hour ago, Muckraker said:

Thought I'd update... All three of us got test results back, today, and we are all positive. 

Welcome to the club.  I hope you all skate through as well as we have.  Tested positive last Sunday and out mowing today.  Hopefully yours is brief and mild as well.

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12 hours ago, IUFLA said:

 

Doesn't that go against state law?

"New York
Hospitals must report employees' vaccination status
Employees can decline a flu shot without an exemption"

I'm not trying to be a smartass here...I'm just curious...

 

 

 

People are dismissed every year for the flu shot if they can’t provide an approved exemption. It’s never happened to one of my employees, b/c they have always got the shot, but I know it happens.

Also not trying to be a smartass, but we have hundreds of lawyers on staff. They might know a bit more about it than us armchair epidemiologists, doctors, and lawyers on HSN. 

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If only death sentence disease such as cancer were to get this kind of attention. smh

Its funny to me for people to know so little and so much at the same time. All the while the rest of life on earth is mostly normal, humans are in total chaos. Clear as mud is this out of the blue virus and it’s vaccine.

In 15 years, well, should anyone be around then, does one think we may be hearing lawyer commercials about covid vaccine side effects similar to the round up lawsuits we hear about today?

Don’t answer that. I’m gonna try and stay away from This thread as much as possible.

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20 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Make that 3. NYC and 2 in Ohio. 

4. This one IU Health. She was suspended in mid September, and has now been fired. 

All IU grads. 

I feel so bad for them. 

Edit: Apparently Oct. 1st was the deadline for many places. 

Edited by RoadToZion
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14 hours ago, Reacher said:

The UK experienced its Delta wave before we did. They are probably a good canary in the coal mine.

Now 87% of new hospitalizations in Wales are from the vaccinated. This does not match what we were told would happen (vaccines prevent covid and if you catch it, it will keep you out of the hospital).

Seems like we are on the way to seeing that here?

https://gov.wales/covid-19-wales-situational-report-24-september-2021

 

 

Okay.  The link takes me to the Covid page for Wales, but nothing stood out to me regarding new hospititalizations.  I'm sure the data is there somewhere, but I dont feel like looking for it.  If you could copy the info or provide a direct link to hospital data, that would be great.

What I did see when picking through some of the data provided is that Wales is at Alert 0 (lowest level), the site strongly recommends getting your 'jabs' and they still have an indoor mask mandate.

Also, I did not see this info, but when looking at percent hospitalized, it is important to know the percent vaccinated.  What if 96% of people in Wales were vaccinated?  Then 'only' 87% of hospitalizations among vaccinated people would be a comparatively good thing.  87 is less than 96. 

Now. I made those percentages up, but it stresses the importance of having ALL the info before reaching a conclusion.

 

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24 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

4. This one IU Health. She was suspended in mid September, and has now been fired. 

All IU grads. 

I feel so bad for them. 

Edit: Apparently Oct. 1st was the deadline for many places. 

Sorry to hear this. I don't understand how this improves care for patients. I also don't understand why manufacture a crisis? States are discussing calling up the National Guard.....really! Why are we creating an issue where we need the national guard?? Not only does that pull volunteers from other industries and jobs because they have to go serve but do we honestly believe (and I know people in the guard and love them dearly) they are going to be able to do as good a job as the people they are replacing? Maybe the question should be to Hospital patients....do you prefer an unvaccinated (but covid free doctor/nurse) taking care of you or do you want a vaccinated (but very likely under qualified) national guard member taking care of you? It's almost like they want to exacerbate the problem to make it bigger so they can justify using more intervention and give themselves more power to take over more services and industries. Govt breaks it and thus decides they need more govt intervention now to fix it. Kinda how its beginning to look.

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19 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Okay.  The link takes me to the Covid page for Wales, but nothing stood out to me regarding new hospititalizations.  I'm sure the data is there somewhere, but I dont feel like looking for it.  If you could copy the info or provide a direct link to hospital data, that would be great.

What I did see when picking through some of the data provided is that Wales is at Alert 0 (lowest level), the site strongly recommends getting your 'jabs' and they still have an indoor mask mandate.

Also, I did not see this info, but when looking at percent hospitalized, it is important to know the percent vaccinated.  What if 96% of people in Wales were vaccinated?  Then 'only' 87% of hospitalizations among vaccinated people would be a comparatively good thing.  87 is less than 96. 

Now. I made those percentages up, but it stresses the importance of having ALL the info before reaching a conclusion.

 

I couldn't find the numbers to correlate how the infection rates of those hospitatlized with vaccinated and unvaccinated either. It does seem that Wales is almost entirely vaccinated age 16 and older....90 some percent....yet still seeing a surge. That said it could still be the 10% unvaccinated hospitalized....but I can't tell what percent it is. If you figure it out let me know if there is any correlation.

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41 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

4. This one IU Health. She was suspended in mid September, and has now been fired. 

All IU grads. 

I feel so bad for them. 

Edit: Apparently Oct. 1st was the deadline for many places. 

36,000 IU Health employees and 125 were let go. Hate anyone to lose their job over this stuff but my guess is given the staffing shortages here in town and nationally....they'll find employment in about .003 seconds.

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15 hours ago, IUFLA said:

 

Doesn't that go against state law?

"New York
Hospitals must report employees' vaccination status
Employees can decline a flu shot without an exemption"

I'm not trying to be a smartass here...I'm just curious...

 

 

 

I know many health care employers with strict rules in this area. Just because it isn't mandated by the govt doesn't mean the employer can't make it a condition of employment. They can craft this policy as long as they can have exemptions for religious and health/disability. For this policy to be lawful the industry would have to meet a standard to show why it is job related and consistant with business necessity (protect the public). The court decisions typically have supported this decision as recognizing health care industry specifically for this....as long as they provide reasonable accomadation for those exceptions. I'd say if you are working in say a factory they wouldn't be able to meet the burden that it is essential to the job/safety and it wouldn't fly. 

https://askjan.org/articles/Workplace-Flu-Vaccination-Requirements-and-the-ADA.cfm

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14 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

36,000 IU Health employees and 125 were let go. Hate anyone to lose their job over this stuff but my guess is given the staffing shortages here in town and nationally....they'll find employment in about .003 seconds.

No doubt. Just crazy I know 4 personally. 

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1 hour ago, jv1972iu said:

Can't believe that Reacher and friends aren't discussing Merck's new covid pill announcement.  

Looks like good news. More tools to fight this virus. I haven't studied much just that it seemed to cut deaths/hopitilization in half...so thats good. I believe Merck invented Ivermectin so let the speculation begin lol.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Just because it isn't mandated by the govt doesn't mean the employer can't make it a condition of employment.

I would think that overriding state law would be fertile grounds for a lawsuit...

I'm quite sure that even a union contract cannot override a state law... 

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42 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I would think that overriding state law would be fertile grounds for a lawsuit...

I'm quite sure that even a union contract cannot override a state law... 

Not sure what the law states. The lack of a law mandating flu shots does not mean there is a law banning mandating flu shots if you understand what I'm trying to say. I know it sounds like double talk. Just because there isn't one in place mandating it in the state doesn't mean there is one that BANS mandating it.

Geez, I'm not a lawyer lol so I'll let someone with first hand knowledge figure this out. I'm going to take Lostin at his word....that Healthcare facilities can mandate it...although it seems that NY Law allows provisions it may just mean that the hospital can allow...but doesn't have to allow them. Some state laws say there is NO exceptions.

https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/docs/menu-shfluvacclaws.pdf

 

77 Given that New York law requires unvaccinated healthcare workers to wear a surgical mask, this indicates there is likely some sort of exemption or declination allowance although it is not explicitly listed in the provisions reviewed. 15 78 10 N.Y. Comp. Codes R. & Regs. 405.3(b)(10)(v) state that “[t]he hospital shall require the following of all personnel . . . documentation of vaccination against influenza.” PHLP considered the phrase “documentation of vaccination” as an assessment requirement. 79 Given that New York law requires unvaccinated healthcare workers to wear a surgical mask, this indicates there is likely some sort of exemption or declination allowance although it is not explicitly listed in the provisions reviewed.

Edited by dgambill
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