Coronavirus

[Lostin76]

1 hour ago, Indykev said:

Agreed, I deleted my twitter account because of it.

Man, the Twitter “gotcha” BS from both sides is really wearing me down. Every new story is just an endless cycle of outrage and “I Told You Sos.” I’m about over it myself. 

I do really use Twitter for good information, but I need to add some more muted topics. 

[IUFLA]

Anybody running short, I've got some...Apple flavored! 😁

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by IUFLA

[mrflynn03]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Anybody running short, I've got some...Apple flavored! 😁

 

Im more interested in the Stud Muffins. It's a textural thing. 

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, mrflynn03 said:

Im more interested in the Stud Muffins. It's a textural thing. 

The Stud Muffins cleanse the pallet for the wormer 😉

[Indykev]

2 hours ago, Lostin76 said:

Man, the Twitter “gotcha” BS from both sides is really wearing me down. Every new story is just an endless cycle of outrage and “I Told You Sos.” I’m about over it myself. 

I do really use Twitter for good information, but I need to add some more muted topics. 

Yes the far Left nutjobs are I hope you all die from covid for not getting the jab and the far Right nutjobs are how the Government is trying to kill us off, in their new world order. Its all way to much from everyone. Mods before you get on me for political talk, the far left and far right dont count. Only 15% of the country and all are nutjobs. 😊

[cthomas]

2 hours ago, Lostin76 said:

Man, the Twitter “gotcha” BS from both sides is really wearing me down. Every new story is just an endless cycle of outrage and “I Told You Sos.” I’m about over it myself. 

I do really use Twitter for good information, but I need to add some more muted topics. 

I was on Twitter for about three years mostly just to follow people who I respected. I tried to block everything else, but eventually the replies and arguments seeped into those threads. I realized that I was reading stuff and getting mad about it. At that point my mental health became more important than anything I was getting from Twitter. So I deleted my account. I have a Masters Degree in counseling (from IU no less) so I should have been able to handle rationally whatever was being said but the constant onslaught of negatively was getting to me. Maybe I should ask for my money back. But the larger point is if it did that to me, what is it doing to people who are less self aware and lack the tools to see what is happening? I admire those who can handle social media and not get sucked into the beast.

[cthomas]

On a side note, as tiring as it can be, I've developed great respect for those I've interacted with in this thread whether I agree with their position or not. Thank you.

[HoosierFaithful]

32 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Yes the far Left nutjobs are I hope you all die from covid for not getting the jab and the far Right nutjobs are how the Government is trying to kill us off, in their new world order. Its all way to much from everyone. Mods before you get on me for political talk, the far left and far right dont count. Only 15% of the country and all are nutjobs. 😊

Moderator emeritus, we’ll allow it. 

[cthomas]

7 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Moderator emeritus, we’ll allow it. 

I can't imagine how difficult that job is but I truly appreciate the way all of you do it. I have refrained from posting things just because I don't want to be "that guy".

[Reacher]

On 12/1/2021 at 8:01 AM, tdhoosier said:

Wait, I’m not allowed to challenge your posts? I thought you said all information should be welcome.

And this is not me ‘source bashing’, it is the journal that published his study!

Have you looked up the author of the study, Steven Gundry?

He is a former cardiologist who now sells supplements and tries to make the case that seeded vegetables are bad for us. 

Look, if a guy has a history of selling supplements based on fringe theories, has massive holes in previous research, hasn’t released his results and can’t be reached for comments then, yes, I’m going to question the validity of the study. Similarly, if 5fouls is giving marital advice….I’m also going to take that with a grain of salt. 

And I’m sorry, but that is troubling. It blatantly shows confirmation bias. Anybody could search for any theory that they want and find a ‘link’, whether it’s aliens on Mars, if the Earth is flat, if 911 is an inside job, etc. I’m not saying that the theories are on the same level of legitimacy, but that is a dangerous hole to go down. The internet is a big place. 

This Dr just presented his findings to the American Heart Association. 

https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/11/read-warning-heart-risk-measure-dramatically-increases-in-covid-19-vaccinated-patients/

Did you know this Dr is regarded as the pioneer for infant heart transplant surgery? It appears he has some more credibility than you are willing to admit. 

The real question is do the vaccines increase the PULS score - a common marker for heart disease. They either do or don't. I imagine we will here more on that in the future. 

[tdhoosier]

21 minutes ago, Reacher said:

This Dr just presented his findings to the American Heart Association. 

https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/11/read-warning-heart-risk-measure-dramatically-increases-in-covid-19-vaccinated-patients/

Did you know this Dr is regarded as the pioneer for infant heart transplant surgery? It appears he has some more credibility than you are willing to admit. 

The real question is do the vaccines increase the PULS score - a common marker for heart disease. They either do or don't. I imagine we will here more on that in the future. 

And it was the AHA who published the disclaimer about this guy because they were skeptical about the credibility of his findings. It was Reuters who fact checked his claims.   Not me. 

Again, I’m not an expert and don’t pretend to fully comprehend studies meant to be read by scientists, doctors and medical professionals. 

[Reacher]

Some facts as we know them today-

• The vaccines do not confer immunity or prevent transmission.
• What beneficial effect they do have wears off, we don’t know when.
• They probably don’t protect against new variants or mutations.
• The vaccines have unknown longterm side effects.

[IUFLA]

Interesting article on smerconish. com on European countries allowing prior COVID infections to count just like vaccinations when enforcing social constraints on people. 

[Zlinedavid]

6 hours ago, Reacher said:

Some facts as we know them today-

• The vaccines do not confer immunity or prevent transmission.
• What beneficial effect they do have wears off, we don’t know when.
• They probably don’t protect against new variants or mutations.
• The vaccines have unknown longterm side effects.

Every single one of those points also applies to flu vaccines, but it’s only the COVID vaccine that is in people’s crosshairs. 

[hoosier_exotics]

28 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Every single one of those points also applies to flu vaccines, but it’s only the COVID vaccine that is in people’s crosshairs. 

People aren't losing their jobs over flu shots.  Or being locked in to "quarantine camps" ...  I am extremely happy people have the option to get a shot, just extremely disappointed it's trying to be mandated. There are risks with everything in life, nothing is 100% safe.   I think we are at 58% who have taken the shot. That number is topped out, as well as misleading.  58% did not volunteer to take the shot. A large portion took it due to the promise of not having to wear a mask anymore.  An even bigger portion took it in the face of losing everything they have. The unvaccinated are not the minority here. The longer the mandate gets put on hold, companies will change their position on it. We are already seeing it here. Even J&J has eased off their policies,  since the mandate was deemed unconstitutional and put on hold. I hope we make as many pills, shots, therapeutics, as humanly possible.  Make it all extremely easy to get and enough for everyone on the planet. 

But piss off with the mandate, the quarantine camps, and anything else the resembles Nazi Germany

Edited December 4, 2021 by hoosier_exotics

[FKIM01]

6 hours ago, Reacher said:

Some facts as we know them today-

• The vaccines do not confer immunity or prevent transmission.
• What beneficial effect they do have wears off, we don’t know when.
• They probably don’t protect against new variants or mutations.
• The vaccines have unknown long-term side effects.

I'd argue the third...they likely do protect against a host of variants, although the level of protection is likely less and possibly a lot less dependent on the variant.  Can't argue anything else you've said here.

32 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

Every single one of those points also applies to flu vaccines, but it’s only the COVID vaccine that is in people’s crosshairs. 

For that reason, I haven't had a flu shot since October 1999.  In March 2000, I had the worst flu I ever had...even had substantial amounts of my hair fall out over it.  It was then that my doctor told me just how short-lived and ineffective the flu vaccine was.  I've had neither the flu shot or the flu in the 21+ years since and have to wonder just how strong my flu antibody presence still is from that awful bout I had long ago.  Aside from that, I'm not being ostracized, denied admittance or having my livelihood threatened because of my refusal to get a flu vaccine.  That being said...

I chose the COVID vaccine for two reasons last spring...(1) I wanted to see my father-in-law who was dying in a nursing home and (2), I was pretty sure I had no antibodies for COVID19 at that point and figured that any is better than none in getting a jump on a pretty worrisome affliction.  Six months later, my wife and I both got a very mild bout of COVID19 that I at least partially credit to the headstart a vaccine gave me.  Hospitalization data appears to back that up.

I see benefits of initial vaccination, but I'm a whole lot more skeptical about an unending string of boosters.  I'm equally skeptical of anyone stating that vaccinated immunity is greater than natural immunity as that flies in the face of everything I've ever read on immunology, which at this point is more than I ever intended to read about immunology.  I don't at all agree with putting government officials in charge of individual healthcare decisions.  I don't fear the unvaccinated.  I work in close proximity with two of them on a daily basis.  One of them has definitely had COVID a few months back and is questioning the additional benefit of getting vaccinated after that.  I'm in no position to argue with her, especially when her own doctor told her he didn't see the need, especially at this time.  It's a tricky "for the benefit of humanity" vs. individual freedom and responsibility question and outside of the best in the fields of virology & immunology, I don't think anyone, especially politicians with no medical background, is in position to make healthcare decisions for free citizens.

[Reacher]

1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

Every single one of those points also applies to flu vaccines, but it’s only the COVID vaccine that is in people’s crosshairs. 

I'd argue there isn't a flu vaccine but rather flu shots. Turns out the covid shots are about the same as the flu shots.

@FKIM01 The Moderna CEO is on record as saying their vaccine is likely ineffective against Omnichron. As we see further variants, effectiveness is likely to decline further. 

[Zlinedavid]

2 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I'd argue there isn't a flu vaccine but rather flu shots. Turns out the covid shots are about the same as the flu shots.

@FKIM01 The Moderna CEO is on record as saying their vaccine is likely ineffective against Omnichron. As we see further variants, effectiveness is likely to decline further. 

And none of this should be used as a criticism of the vaccines or as “proof” they don’t work. Flu shot formulations change every year due to this. I’m betting that in a few years, there will be an annual “COVID shot” that’s designed to target the latest mutations. Some years will be more effective than others. 

[HoosierFaithful]

This is what happens when a once-in-100 years virus comes and was poorly handled - yes, life will change.  

[mrflynn03]

Thought some might be interested in this breakthrough in testing. 

I don't do twitting, was just sent to me. 

 

 

[HoosierFaithful]

I can get behind this testing regiment. 
 

her first pour was atrocious, though. 

[5fouls]

On 12/4/2021 at 8:17 AM, Reacher said:

Some facts as we know them today-

• The vaccines do not confer immunity or prevent transmission.
• What beneficial effect they do have wears off, we don’t know when.
• They probably don’t protect against new variants or mutations.
• The vaccines have unknown longterm side effects.

Point of clarification.  If the side effects are unknown, how do we know they are long-term?

In other words, that's a non-fact presented as a fact.  And, that is the problem with this whole mess.

Edited December 5, 2021 by 5fouls

[5fouls]

18 hours ago, Reacher said:

I'd argue there isn't a flu vaccine but rather flu shots. Turns out the covid shots are about the same as the flu shots.

@FKIM01 The Moderna CEO is on record as saying their vaccine is likely ineffective against Omnichron. As we see further variants, effectiveness is likely to decline further. 

For clarification, he did not say it was ineffective.  He said it wont be as effective.  That could simply mean that instead of being 95% effective that it's only 75% effective.

Any amount of effectiveness, whether it be 95%, 75%, or 10% could still be enough keep you out of the hospital and/or alive.

[Reacher]

26 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Point of clarification.  If the side effects are unknown, how do we know they are long-term?

In other words, that's a non-fact presented as a fact.  And, that is the problem with this whole mess.

Are you saying there are no long term side effects? We obviously don't know for sure, and won't for many years, but with all the early adverse reactions, it stands to reason there will be. I don't think that is a stretch. I think you are nit picking there.

As for the Moderna CEO, he said there will be a "material drop in effectiveness" . That doesn't imply 95% or 75%.  

https://nypost.com/2021/11/30/moderna-ceo-says-covid-vaccines-will-struggle-with-omicron/

As I posted earlier, therapeutics and advances in treatments mean that those with covid are 85% less likely to be hospitalized now. 

Vaccines are no longer the only game in town. That looks to change even more going forward with daily pills and other alternatives.  

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, Reacher said:

Are you saying there are no long term side effects? We obviously don't know for sure, and won't for many years, but with all the early adverse reactions, it stands to reason there will be. I don't think that is a stretch. I think you are nit picking there.

As for the Moderna CEO, he said there will be a "material drop in effectiveness" . That doesn't imply 95% or 75%.  

https://nypost.com/2021/11/30/moderna-ceo-says-covid-vaccines-will-struggle-with-omicron/

As I posted earlier, therapeutics and advances in treatments mean that those with covid are 85% less likely to be hospitalized now. 

Vaccines are no longer the only game in town. That looks to change even more going forward with daily pills and other alternatives.  

Are you denying that you used the phrase 'some FACTS as we know them today' and then promptly listed something that is not a fact.  Now, you are trying to say 'we don't know for sure' and still trying to call it a fact. 

Here's a fact we DO know.  Hospitalizations and deaths are down for people that have had the vaccine.  That cannot be argued or even spun to look differently.  For all we know, if more people would have been receptive to getting the vaccine in the first place, Omicron may not have ever mutated.  

As far as what 'material drop in effectiveness' means, you are assuming what he means.  Your assumption is not a fact, nor is the statement itself.  We don't have enough data to say anything is a fact.