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The NEED for a 7 footer


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De'Ron is done after this season, and we're going to lose Brunk after next season. Assuming Trayce leaves after year two, that leaves us with Race Thompson as our tallest player on the roster. This Duncomb kid is the tallest player we've offered for 21.. only 6'9. Archie needs to go recruit some more bigs because we're doing fine right now with recruiting guards, but if you look down the road a ways we're going to be small and thin in the frontcourt starting in 2021-2022 season. 

We haven't had a true 7 footer in the program since Zeller. Iowa, Illinois, and Purdue have had one every year and they all impact the game big time especially when we play them. Garza, Cockburn, and Haarms are great examples. We need one of those. 

Edited by Jackson Kellogs
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17 minutes ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

De'Ron is done after this season, and we're going to lose Brunk after next season. Assuming Trayce leaves after year two, that leaves us with Race Thompson as our tallest player on the roster. This Duncomb kid is the tallest player we've offered for 21.. only 6'9. Archie needs to go recruit some more bigs because we're doing fine right now with recruiting guards, but if you look down the road a ways we're going to be small and thin in the frontcourt starting in 2021-2022 season. 

We haven't had a true 7 footer in the program since Zeller. Iowa, Illinois, and Purdue have had one every year and they all impact the game big time especially when we play them. Garza, Cockburn, and Haarms are great examples. We need one of those. 

Garza is not 7'0, he is more like 6'9 or 6'10

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52 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said:

I would bet Trayce stays 3 years.  Unless he really works on his shooting he won’t get drafted.  

They leave him open so many times on switches when they hedge on our ball handlers to stop the drive. If we could get Race and TJD to become 30-33 percent consistently from 3 it would open a lot up. Have a stretch 4 in the Biefeldt mold is what really changed our last big ten championship team. Which I believe is what we are sorely missing on this team aka shooting lol. 

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NCAA I Players 2016-17   NCAA I Players 2016-17   NCAA I Players 2016-17
Height # % 2016-17 Height # % 2016-17 Height # %
5'5 1 0.0%   6'1 337 6.3%   6'9 367 6.9%
5'6 1 0.0%   6'2 472 8.8%   6'10 242 4.5%
5'7 6 0.1%   6'3 493 9.2%   6'11 115 2.2%
5'8 27 0.5%   6'4 532 10.0%   7'0 62 1.2%
5'9 34 0.6%   6'5 508 9.5%   7'1 23 0.4%
5'10 127 2.4%   6'6 482 9.0%   7'2 10 0.2%
5'11 136 2.5%   6'7 544 10.2%   7'3-7'4 2 0.0%
6'0 276 5.2%   6'8 543 10.2%   7'6 1 0.0%

 

International players make up about 11% of NCAA I men's basketball rosters, but account for a disproportionately higher percentage of players 6'8 and above,  and nearly half of all players 7' or above. On the reverse side, NCAA I athletes from overseas account for a disproportionately smaller percentage of players 6'6 and shorter.

http://scholarshipstats.com/NCAA1-Basketball.html

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1 hour ago, Hoosierfan1215 said:

They leave him open so many times on switches when they hedge on our ball handlers to stop the drive. If we could get Race and TJD to become 30-33 percent consistently from 3 it would open a lot up. Have a stretch 4 in the Biefeldt mold is what really changed our last big ten championship team. Which I believe is what we are sorely missing on this team aka shooting lol. 

I was saying similar yesterday. IU needs TJD, Race and Brunk to spend most of their summer developing and working on 3's off the pick and pop. It's such a huge weapon missing from IU's offense. 

People want to talk about Archie and the offensive scheme, but IMO our scheme is fine. We run basically the same stuff as everyone else, we just don't have shot makers. Look at the below 3pt % from bigs from the better teams in the Big Ten.

UMD: Smith: 38.0%, Scott: 33.3

Iowa: Garza 35.6%, Kreiner 32.5%

Michigan: Johns 35.3%

OSU: Kaleb Wesson 43%, Andre Wesson 44.3%

IU: TJD 0.0%, Smith 25.7%, Brunk 0.0%, Race 30.0%

It's pretty telling. How different is that game yesterday if Cockburn and Georgi for ILL have to come out and defend TJD, Brunk and Race at the 3pt line? Late in the game Race had the ball at the top of the key numerous times and his defender was literally not even outside the free throw line. 

Yet when IU plays OSU for example, TJD, Brunk and Race are out there chasing the Wesson brothers all over the court. It really hurt IU against Maryland when Smith started knocking down 3pt shots. I think he made 3-4 in the game at IU. 

This is an element for IU that is non-existent. Drives to the lane by Durham, Phinisee, Green, etc. are so much easier if TJD, Race and even Brunk at least have to be respected from the top of the key. 

 

Edited by BGleas
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I have stood next to De'ron.  And though I stood on my tip toes to get to his shoulders. I can assure you that he is NOT seven feet tall. Though I wish he were.

However, I agree with your premise.  How Purdue can continue to get seven footers, year after year is beyond me.

For IU to compete in the B1G.... we need to get some Bigs of our own

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6 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I have stood next to De'ron.  And though I stood on my tip toes to get to his shoulders. I can assure you that he is NOT seven feet tall. Though I wish he were.

However, I agree with your premise.  How Purdue can continue to get seven footers, year after year is beyond me.

For IU to compete in the B1G.... we need to get some Bigs of our own

Purdue gets them because Painter is willing to take a kid that's raw and develop them for a couple years before he expects them to contribute. Most of these guys are 3 star projects but it works for them. 

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13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

It's pretty telling. How different is that game yesterday if Cockburn and Georgi for ILL have to come out and defend TJD, Brunk and Race at the 3pt line? Late in the game Race had the ball at the top of the key numerous times and his defender was literally not even outside the free throw line. 

 

Really wanted to see Race attempt one or two just to keep them honest. He's capable. At 30%, he's better than Smith, Franklin or Anderson.

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6 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Purdue gets them because Painter is willing to take a kid that's raw and develop them for a couple years before he expects them to contribute. Most of these guys are 3 star projects but it works for them. 

Agree with that.  The year he had two on the roster, Painter rarely played them together.  Saying they were both terrible ft shooters.

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3 hours ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

De'Ron is done after this season, and we're going to lose Brunk after next season. Assuming Trayce leaves after year two, that leaves us with Race Thompson as our tallest player on the roster. This Duncomb kid is the tallest player we've offered for 21.. only 6'9. Archie needs to go recruit some more bigs because we're doing fine right now with recruiting guards, but if you look down the road a ways we're going to be small and thin in the frontcourt starting in 2021-2022 season. 

We haven't had a true 7 footer in the program since Zeller. Iowa, Illinois, and Purdue have had one every year and they all impact the game big time especially when we play them. Garza, Cockburn, and Haarms are great examples. We need one of those. 

I think 7-footer is more of a symbolic term for a legit big man, not a tweener. I'd be happy if we can get 6'10" kid with good athleticism (if 6'9", kid has to be very athletic), but not a total project. We saw those 'project' big men in Crean era, and none of them panned out. I got very pissed off watching IU teams a$$ kicked by Maryland's tall, slender, athletic big men 2 years in a row. 

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33 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I was saying similar yesterday. IU needs TJD, Race and Brunk to spend most of their summer developing and working on 3's off the pick and pop. It's such a huge weapon missing from IU's offense. 

People want to talk about Archie and the offensive scheme, but IMO our scheme is fine. We run basically the same stuff as everyone else, we just don't have shot makers. Look at the below 3pt % from bigs from the better teams in the Big Ten.

UMD: Smith: 38.0%, Scott: 33.3

Iowa: Garza 35.6%, Kreiner 32.5%

Michigan: Johns 35.3%

OSU: Kaleb Wesson 43%, Andre Wesson 44.3%

IU: TJD 0.0%, Smith 25.7%, Brunk 0.0%, Race 30.0%

It's pretty telling. How different is that game yesterday if Cockburn and Georgi for ILL have to come out and defend TJD, Brunk and Race at the 3pt line? Late in the game Race had the ball at the top of the key numerous times and his defender was literally not even outside the free throw line. 

Yet when IU plays OSU for example, TJD, Brunk and Race are out there chasing the Wesson brothers all over the court. It really hurt IU against Maryland when Smith started knocking down 3pt shots. I think he made 3-4 in the game at IU. 

This is an element for IU that is non-existent. Drives to the lane by Durham, Phinisee, Green, etc. are so much easier if TJD, Race and even Brunk at least have to be respected from the top of the key. 

 

Out of those 3 (Brunk, Thompson, TJD) I think Race has the most potential to be a reliable 3 point shooter...I saw the temptation a couple of times when they were sagging on him, but I've also seen him get pulled for shooting them (with Archie in his ear on the way to the bench)...

TJD has to see how much more effective a guy like Garza is with the 3 point shot in his repertoire...maybe Anthony Leal can have him out there making 500 3 pointers a day...

As for Joey, I was shocked to see that he has taken 5 3 pointers in his career, hitting 1...just don't know whether he'd ever be effective from there, though...

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3 hours ago, IUwins0708 said:

I would bet Trayce stays 3 years.  Unless he really works on his shooting he won’t get drafted.  

Agreed. He also needs to develop a right hand, maybe even before he tries to develop the 3 pt shot. Would make him much more dangerous in the paint.

I think we will improve significantly next year in the 3 pt, based on Rob taking more, Leal, Lander, and maybe a little more Race.

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I kinda agree....

7 foot is just a number. Cody was 7 foot but had T-Rex arms. I'll take a 6'9" guy with length too.

And I don't think Archie is looking for a 7 footer specifically. I think the big guys he needs for his system need to have quick feet. Thus, I don't want a 7 footer who can't move and spikes my blood pressure every time he's stumbling back towards the basket on D after getting caught on a hedge 5 feet outside of the 3 point line.  

JMHO, but I want length (wingspan length), good feet, and 30%+ from 3 wouldn't be bad either. Let's go get him Arch!

 

 

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Race and TJD having decent 3-point shooting would be awesome, and I'd say if that happens, the future is bright. 

With that said, the very person that desperately needs to equip long-range shooting is Smith. His offensive game is so predictive; all he can do is to work his butt off on defensive end to maintain his playing time. It wasn't like he couldn't shoot coming out of high school. He didn't put his efforts, heart, and soul to hone in his shooting skills, which has hurt the team. After this season, Archie's gotta sit down with him to give him the ultimatum. Either he shoots at least 33% beyond the arc or he's coming out of bench behind Hunter. Something has to happen. We can't have a wing who can't shoot. 

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38 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I kinda agree....

7 foot is just a number. Cody was 7 foot but had T-Rex arms. I'll take a 6'9" guy with length too.

And I don't think Archie is looking for a 7 footer specifically. I think the big guys he needs for his system need to have quick feet. Thus, I don't want a 7 footer who can't move and spikes my blood pressure every time he's stumbling back towards the basket on D after getting caught on a hedge 5 feet outside of the 3 point line.  

JMHO, but I want length (wingspan length), good feet, and 30%+ from 3 wouldn't be bad either. Let's go get him Arch!

 

 

Nothing to do with the subject of this thread. But since you  bring up Cody Zeller.  Was when he took it in the "nuts".  Said nothing. Till a time out.  Brought it to the attention of the ref's. They reviewed the play.  And assessed a penalty on the "Nut Cracker".

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1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I kinda agree....

7 foot is just a number. Cody was 7 foot but had T-Rex arms. I'll take a 6'9" guy with length too.

And I don't think Archie is looking for a 7 footer specifically. I think the big guys he needs for his system need to have quick feet. Thus, I don't want a 7 footer who can't move and spikes my blood pressure every time he's stumbling back towards the basket on D after getting caught on a hedge 5 feet outside of the 3 point line.  

JMHO, but I want length (wingspan length), good feet, and 30%+ from 3 wouldn't be bad either. Let's go get him Arch!

 

 

I get what you’re saying completely. However Zeller would be perfect in Miller’s system. Dude could run the floor big time and athletic. If we could find someone with that size who can still move we need to go after him hard. That’s easier said than done though, not many Cody Zeller’s in high school floating around. 

Edited by Jackson Kellogs
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22 minutes ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

I get what you’re saying completely. However Zeller would be perfect in Miller’s system. Dude could run the floor big time and athletic. If we could find someone with that size who can still move we need to go after him hard. That’s easier said than done though, not many Cody Zeller’s in high school floating around. 

Cody was a one of a kind college player.  While he was in high school, my son got extremely tired of talking about him. Remember the day the package of IU gear showed up at the high school where his mom worked.   Even know his favorite place to eat in Washington. Wished only. That he has stayed for four years,

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25 minutes ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

I get what you’re saying completely. However Zeller would be perfect in Miller’s system. Dude could run the floor big time and athletic. If we could find someone with that size who can still move we need to go after him hard. That’s easier said than done though, not many Cody Zeller’s in high school floating around. 

Dawson Garcia would have been a good fit

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I think right now, we lack some length.  I LOVE Race's game.  I couldn't be happier with him.  But, I bet he's 6'7 tops.  Brunk is tall but I wonder what his wingspan is.  He plays like he doesn't have a great wingspan IMO.  Wingspan is arguably more important than the height of a player.  No knock on Brunk as I like him for a variety of reasons.

I think Jackson Kelloggs has some good points as he usually does.  I always harp on complementary talent, but I like the combo of a broad shouldered, tough big who can post up, bang, and be a physical menace. But I'd pair him with a really long, quick, active guy.  Those quick, long guys can be on top of you before you know it defensively.  But if you have the long quick guy without the physical enforcer type, those long, lithe guys can get thrown into the second row without a tough physical guy enforcing the paint and banging in the post and on the boards.

I don't blame Archie for being on Duncomb.  He fits half of my equation of complementary big guys.  If Kaufman gets to be about 6'10 he may be a nice component too (I like him either way).

Interestingly, Sean Miller has recruited abroad.  Presumably, Archie can work some of those contacts too.  Who knows, maybe we get another big guy that way.  I like lots of depth at the 4/5 positions.  As much as we dislike Pitino (senior) in terms of character and shenanigans, as a coach, he had a very nice strategy of endlessly rotating long, big guys.  They kept coming in waves like a defensive line rotation in football.  

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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