bluegrassIU Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, btownqb said: There has been some times in conference play that he has REALLY put himself in bad spots offensively with turnovers. He had a really bad one @Minny and @Purdue. Not down one him at all, but I think he just doesn't have the leash as others do. His time will come. He has a very bright future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 53 minutes ago, rico said: Our basketball IQ has improved dramatically over the past couple of weeks. But IQ can't do anything about missed 3's or FT's. I agree ...it was my biggest area of complaint and while it’s not where it should be it is definitely leveled out a little as far as not having games with a massive deficit between assists and turnovers ( to the negative ) ....I also agree our shooting when it’s off can kill us BUT we are athletic enough that if we play with high IQ and energy a full 40 minutes on the defensive end then we can still win or have a chance to win the games we shoot like hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said: His time will come. He has a very bright future. Oh I agree. I love him. Just saying.. I'm not down on him at all, I think he is ahead of Durham as a FR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, btownqb said: Oh I agree. I love him. Just saying.. I'm not down on him at all, I think he is ahead of Durham as a FR. I was agreeing with you, as well. Just piggybacking off your thought. I am an Armaan fan, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 33 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: You're cherry picking part of the conversation. It wasn't "one turnover," it was multiple situations with plays that simply weren't smart plays, and I would expect this team to be past those at this point in the season. For example, do you think our PG giving up the ball to Brunk and Race on the perimeter with the shot clock running down is a smart play? I was happy with Rob's play overall, but those things are just head scratchers. No, I don't expect us to be perfect, but we're not going to get away with those mistakes against the better teams. I'm not sure why some of you want to assume people are angry or upset about a win just because we're discussing these things. I'm happy with the W. I just think there are still areas that need to be cleaned up if we're going to consistently defeat the better teams. Gee, I wonder if Archie thinks there is nothing to "clean up". We're not experts, but some things are just obvious to IU fans. Stupid turnovers, unforced turnovers are just 1 thing. Doesn't mean we aren't appreciative of the win, just doing a post-mortem on the game. We all see different things, and this is a good place to share them. Like them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, AxnJxn said: I think my issue with last night, as folks have mentioned in the thread, is the continued unforced errors or low basketball IQ mistakes that really should be cleaned up by this point in the year. We've mentioned Rob giving up the ball multiple times to bigs on the perimeter with the shot clock running down, Devonte had a lazy lob pass on the perimeter that led to an easy two, Justin fouling a 3 point shooter late in the game, and that's just off the top of my head or what has been mentioned here, and I'm sure there are others. I really didn't see the energy that you saw in the first half and especially closing out that half, although I did see it more in the second half. The crowd was simply terrible, which could certainly cloud my perception of the effort on the floor, too. To be fair, it's also difficult to tell how good or bad Minny is, which seems to be the case across the board in the conference this year. I guess we just see the game differently. I didn't see continued unforced errors or low basketball IQ. Were there some mistakes? Sure. But it's a basketball game, there are going to be some mistakes. We only had 10 turnovers for the entire game, and I thought IU (Phinisee in particular) largely controlled the pace of the game. Smith's foul was frustrating for sure, but as Butch said on the broadcast, that was an effort mistake not a mental mistake (don't get me wrong, many times fouling a shooter is mental, but this one was effort). Are there things to clean up and do we need to probably knock down more 3's to beat Wisconsin? Absolutely. But overall, I thought IU played pretty well last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, BGleas said: I guess we just see the game differently. I didn't see continued unforced errors or low basketball IQ. Were there some mistakes? Sure. But it's a basketball game, there are going to be some mistakes. We only had 10 turnovers for the entire game, and I thought IU (Phinisee in particular) largely controlled the pace of the game. Smith's foul was frustrating for sure, but as Butch said on the broadcast, that was an effort mistake not a mental mistake (don't get me wrong, many times fouling a shooter is mental, but this one was effort). Are there things to clean up and do we need to probably knock down more 3's to beat Wisconsin? Absolutely. But overall, I thought IU played pretty well last night. I'm not getting why the number of TOs keeps getting pointed out when we're talking about things that don't show up in the stats? Rob handing off to Race and Brunk on the perimeter with the shot clock at 5 seconds or less just makes zero sense. Justin's a junior - he's got to be smarter than that in that situation. Not sure I agree that's an effort mistake when he simply shouldn't be giving the ref the opportunity to make that call, and it's not like there was a doubt. Again, I'm not expecting us to be perfect, but these are pretty basic concepts. I don't want this to turn into something it's not - I think we've improved and we saw that last night, and it's a solid win. I thought the energy down the stretch was good to see, we were tough on D, and I like that our guards are being more aggressive. But, with a young(ish) team like this, those mental mistakes can't go unchecked, and Minny made a number of mistakes down the stretch (missed dunk, missed FTs, multiple TOs) that the better teams likely won't. I also think Pitino is near the bottom of the conference in coaching ability, so we'll see how we do on Saturday against a better coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said: And people just gloss over the fact we had only 10 TO's to 14 assists. I mean someone points out a TO caused by a bad pass, when we ONLY HAD 10 FREAKING TOs. That's the thing, Of COURSE we're going to have some TO's, every single game by every single team will have a bad TO, how do you go and just ignore we only had 10?? The "lighten up Francis" line just keeps ringing in my head. We won the game, we won with only 10 TO's, our lead would've been much greater had we shot even decently at the line (we were like 50% from the line), so sure, we need to shoot free throws better, it would be nice to hit better from the outside, it would be nice to have a PERFECT game, but golly, perfect games don't happen often, and we did, in fact, play a solid game with all five starters in double figures and we're now controlling our own destiny. It's a good thing. Enjoy the moment. With, I think, onky 3 TOs in the 2nd half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 I know some is just not talking about the amount of TO's but I did look back at RMK 3 championship teams and I found that those teams were not perfect as well and here are the TO averages for each team. 76- 18.3 TO's a game 81- 14.4 TO's a game 87- 15.4 TO's a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU/Butler/Notre Dame Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I know some is just not talking about the amount of TO's but I did look back at RMK 3 championship teams and I found that those teams were not perfect as well and here are the TO averages for each team. 76- 18.3 TO's a game 81- 14.4 TO's a game 87- 15.4 TO's a game 14 or 15 a game is a total you can win with as long as you average higher assist totals than 15 and stay even or ahead in rebounding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I know some is just not talking about the amount of TO's but I did look back at RMK 3 championship teams and I found that those teams were not perfect as well and here are the TO averages for each team. 76- 18.3 TO's a game 81- 14.4 TO's a game 87- 15.4 TO's a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 hours ago, rico said: Ya know it occurred to me last night that the loss by Minny probably ended their chance at the NIT. Not sure...they did play a wicked tough schedule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxnJxn Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 59 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I know some is just not talking about the amount of TO's but I did look back at RMK 3 championship teams and I found that those teams were not perfect as well and here are the TO averages for each team. 76- 18.3 TO's a game 81- 14.4 TO's a game 87- 15.4 TO's a game 39 minutes ago, IU/Butler/Notre Dame said: 14 or 15 a game is a total you can win with as long as you average higher assist totals than 15 and stay even or ahead in rebounding We're last in the conference at 13.0, Wisky leads at 10.0. It's a pretty slippery slope to compare stats from 30+ years ago to today's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: I know some is just not talking about the amount of TO's but I did look back at RMK 3 championship teams and I found that those teams were not perfect as well and here are the TO averages for each team. 76- 18.3 TO's a game 81- 14.4 TO's a game 87- 15.4 TO's a game Where did you get those numbers? 76, 540÷32=16.9 81 450 ÷ 34=13.2 87 449÷34=13.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: We're last in the conference at 13.0, Wisky leads at 10.0. It's a pretty slippery slope to compare stats from 30+ years ago to today's game. Why is that a TO is a TO no matter what era you are in. Just showing that even great teams have TO's and bone headed plays. RMK reputation was of a no non sense guy who did not tolerate mistakes but his best teams turned the ball over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, AxnJxn said: You're cherry picking part of the conversation. It wasn't "one turnover," it was multiple situations with plays that simply weren't smart plays, and I would expect this team to be past those at this point in the season. For example, do you think our PG giving up the ball to Brunk and Race on the perimeter with the shot clock running down is a smart play? I was happy with Rob's play overall, but those things are just head scratchers. No, I don't expect us to be perfect, but we're not going to get away with those mistakes against the better teams. I'm not sure why some of you want to assume people are angry or upset about a win just because we're discussing these things. I'm happy with the W. I just think there are still areas that need to be cleaned up if we're going to consistently defeat the better teams. That's what film sessions are for. Even wins like last night have plenty of teachable moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Where did you get those numbers? 76, 540÷32=16.9 81 450 ÷ 34=13.2 87 449÷34=13.2 Sports Reference the 76 team did not have to over totals for the team so I just added up individual players turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaloisGroupe Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, AxnJxn said: We're last in the conference at 13.0, Wisky leads at 10.0. It's a pretty slippery slope to compare stats from 30+ years ago to today's game. +1 three second, carrying, double dribble still existed in the 80's... And travelling had not yet been rebranded eurostep. It was a lot easier to turn it over then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, AxnJxn said: I'm not getting why the number of TOs keeps getting pointed out when we're talking about things that don't show up in the stats? Rob handing off to Race and Brunk on the perimeter with the shot clock at 5 seconds or less just makes zero sense. Justin's a junior - he's got to be smarter than that in that situation. Not sure I agree that's an effort mistake when he simply shouldn't be giving the ref the opportunity to make that call, and it's not like there was a doubt. Again, I'm not expecting us to be perfect, but these are pretty basic concepts. I don't want this to turn into something it's not - I think we've improved and we saw that last night, and it's a solid win. I thought the energy down the stretch was good to see, we were tough on D, and I like that our guards are being more aggressive. But, with a young(ish) team like this, those mental mistakes can't go unchecked, and Minny made a number of mistakes down the stretch (missed dunk, missed FTs, multiple TOs) that the better teams likely won't. I also think Pitino is near the bottom of the conference in coaching ability, so we'll see how we do on Saturday against a better coach. Because a 10 turnover game, especially in the Big Ten, is fantastic and shows a high bball IQ performance, even if there were some mistakes here and there. I guess my overall point is that there are always going to be things that can be cleaned up, whether you win or lose and it's perfectly fine to discuss and debate those things of course, but IMO to act like last night wasn't a strong to very good performance by this team is not accurate. Yes there were some mistakes and things to clean up, but IU played a very good game last night and if not for missing some open 3's/free throws, that could have easily been a double-digit win as IU controlled pretty much the entire pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, GaloisGroupe said: And travelling had not yet been rebranded eurostep. That made me laugh...very true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said: And travelling had not yet been rebranded eurostep. Don't forget the recently released "gather dribble". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, GaloisGroupe said: +1 three second, carrying, double dribble still existed in the 80's... And travelling had not yet been rebranded eurostep. It was a lot easier to turn it over then. If a eurostep is a travel.. so is a regular warmup layup. Literally the exact same. When exactly do they miss double dribble calls? They use to call double dribbles that weren't double dribbles at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, AxnJxn said: I also think Pitino is near the bottom of the conference in coaching ability, so we'll see how we do on Saturday against a better coach. I'm to the point of feeling sorry for him because I think he's very close to being fired and that's not a happy day for anyone, so I don't get as much joy as usually in saying this.... To his credit, he's not the scum that daddy is, but neither is he the coach daddy was. He's not near the bottom, he IS the bottom. I think the Big Ten has a lot of good coaches, but I honestly think Ricky doesn't have a lot of skill there. He's twice this year literally conceded the game against IU with at least 1:30 to go...both times let IU run a full shot clock off leaving no time to try to get back in the game. Just bizarre...I get it if you're down 20, but it was much closer than that. He's literally the poorest X's & O's coach in the league. I don't put Mark Turgeon much ahead of him...but Turgeon is a much better recruiter than he is a tactician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Sports Reference the 76 team did not have to over totals for the team so I just added up individual players turnovers. This is from Sports Reference... Not ragging on you, just prefer accuracy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, AxnJxn said: You're cherry picking part of the conversation. It wasn't "one turnover," it was multiple situations with plays that simply weren't smart plays, and I would expect this team to be past those at this point in the season. For example, do you think our PG giving up the ball to Brunk and Race on the perimeter with the shot clock running down is a smart play? I was happy with Rob's play overall, but those things are just head scratchers. No, I don't expect us to be perfect, but we're not going to get away with those mistakes against the better teams. I'm not sure why some of you want to assume people are angry or upset about a win just because we're discussing these things. I'm happy with the W. I just think there are still areas that need to be cleaned up if we're going to consistently defeat the better teams. I'm not cherry picking anything. We played a solid game, Minn is NOT a bad team, it's record is what it is because it plays in the B1G. Yes, there are -- always -- things I see along with everyone else we could be doing better, but you are just ignoring that just hitting free throws would've made this a blow-out W, and again, 10 TO's, all 5 starters in double figures, etc. It was absolutely a solid W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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