Minnesota Postgame Thread

[5 championships]

Did IU win last night! Is IU headed to the CBI or NCAA tournament? Cuz it’s hard to tell reading this thread. Holy smokes people this is laughable. IU didn’t play perfect but did a lot of things well and got the win. What was expected out this team coming into the season? Reading this thread you’d think we were supposed to be a top 10 team! This is exactly what I expected 19-21 wins and NCAA tournament appearance... I’m happy and enjoying the growth of the program. Archie has upped our KenPom ranking by about 20 spots each year now. Love it!

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

This is from Sports Reference...

Not ragging on you, just prefer accuracy...

I used the stats that was above the ones you used.

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I guess we just see the game differently. I didn't see continued unforced errors or low basketball IQ. Were there some mistakes? Sure. But it's a basketball game, there are going to be some mistakes. We only had 10 turnovers for the entire game, and I thought IU (Phinisee in particular) largely controlled the pace of the game. Smith's foul was frustrating for sure, but as Butch said on the broadcast, that was an effort mistake not a mental mistake (don't get me wrong, many times fouling a shooter is mental, but this one was effort).  

Are there things to clean up and do we need to probably knock down more 3's to beat Wisconsin? Absolutely. But overall, I thought IU played pretty well last night. 

Said it better than me. And I don't think anyone here would call you a sunshine pumper, lol, really more just a straight shooter (no pun intended). 

When a team has 10 TO's, and more assists, it's kind of rough to say it didn't play a solid game.

[AxnJxn]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Because a 10 turnover game, especially in the Big Ten, is fantastic and shows a high bball IQ performance, even if there were some mistakes here and there. 

I guess my overall point is that there are always going to be things that can be cleaned up, whether you win or lose and it's perfectly fine to discuss and debate those things of course, but IMO to act like last night wasn't a strong to very good performance by this team is not accurate. Yes there were some mistakes and things to clean up, but IU played a very good game last night and if not for missing some open 3's/free throws, that could have easily been a double-digit win as IU controlled pretty much the entire pace. 

I simply don't know that there are any major conclusions to be made from last night. You can say we could've hit some more 3s (which, with the way we shoot, isn't really something that's automatic to assume), but Minny made a number of mistakes down the stretch that were essentially unforced errors as I noted in a previous post. It works both ways. I kinda thought we played better in the loss to Illinois, but you can probably chalk that up to a young team playing up and down to the record of their opponent.

[13th&Jackson]

Ball security matters for this team because it's not a prolific scoring team, but:

IU had 17 TOs against IA and won by 12. IU had 7 TOs against MI and lost by 24.

[addictedtoIU]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

I know some is just not talking about the amount of TO's but I did look back at RMK 3 championship teams and I found that those teams were not perfect as well and here are the TO averages for each team.

76- 18.3 TO's a game

81- 14.4 TO's a game

87- 15.4 TO's a game

I was quite amazed RMK didn't actually kill those players. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Ball security matters for this team because it's not a prolific scoring team, but:

IU had 17 TOs against IA and won by 12. IU had 7 TOs against MI and lost by 24.

Yes, you can't look at TO's in a vacuum, fair points. That said, there are always exceptions, and it's a good barometer generally of how well, or poorly, a team is playing. When we're typically turning the ball over at a high clip, we lose. When we take care of the ball, we put ourselves in position to win.

[AxnJxn]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I'm not cherry picking anything. We played a solid game, Minn is NOT a bad team, it's record is what it is because it plays in the B1G. Yes, there are -- always -- things I see along with everyone else we could be doing better, but you are just ignoring that just hitting free throws would've made this a blow-out W, and again, 10 TO's, all 5 starters in double figures, etc. It was absolutely a solid W.

You absolutely cherry picked the part of the conversation that was discussing multiple mistakes that were made. And you're ignoring that Minny (1) missed multiple FTs down the stretch, (2) missed an easy dunk down the stretch, and (3) had multiple unforced TOs down the stretch. Coulda, shoulda, woulda works both ways. I'd imagine the Gophers fans are saying that if they had cleaned that up, they might have won. 

[IU Scott]

People stop looking for a perfect game because you will never find it and you will never be happy.

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I simply don't know that there are any major conclusions to be made from last night. You can say we could've hit some more 3s (which, with the way we shoot, isn't really something that's automatic to assume), but Minny made a number of mistakes down the stretch that were essentially unforced errors as I noted in a previous post. It works both ways. I kinda thought we played better in the loss to Illinois, but you can probably chalk that up to a young team playing up and down to the record of their opponent.

The bottom line is that this team has been playing much, much better for 3 weeks, outside of the Michigan no-show. Sure, maybe they played better at Illinois compared to last night, but that doesn't mean last night was a bad performance. 

Like we've all said, yes there were some mistakes and some unforced errors, but they were pretty minimal overall and never really snowballed on IU to the point where they lost control of the game. I guess I'm not sure what you're really expecting? There's a big difference between "good win, but we have some stuff to work on", and "well, I guess I'll take it, a win is a win". 

IU played well last night and overall as a unit IU played hard and played smart. Despite a couple things to work on, it just seems odd in my opinion to categorize it as anything else. 

[13th&Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes, you can't look at TO's in a vacuum, fair points. That said, there are always exceptions, and it's a good barometer generally of how well, or poorly, a team is playing. When we're typically turning the ball over at a high clip, we lose. When we take care of the ball, we put ourselves in position to win.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I hate unforced errors, especially live ball TOs.

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

You absolutely cherry picked the part of the conversation that was discussing multiple mistakes that were made. And you're ignoring that Minny (1) missed multiple FTs down the stretch, (2) missed an easy dunk down the stretch, and (3) had multiple unforced TOs down the stretch. Coulda, shoulda, woulda works both ways. I'd imagine the Gophers fans are saying that if they had cleaned that up, they might have won. 

You can say this same thing after every game and every team that play college basketball.  You think Maryland's fan were crying after they beat us by 1 in AH saying that if IU did not turn the ball over late we would have lost.

[Hoosierhoopster]

6 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

You absolutely cherry picked the part of the conversation that was discussing multiple mistakes that were made. And you're ignoring that Minny (1) missed multiple FTs down the stretch, (2) missed an easy dunk down the stretch, and (3) had multiple unforced TOs down the stretch. Coulda, shoulda, woulda works both ways. I'd imagine the Gophers fans are saying that if they had cleaned that up, they might have won. 

Oh come on. The coulda woulda shoulda stuff? Really? Look, if you don't want to see that we played what I think pretty much everyone else sees as a solid (if not good) game, that's your prerogative. Any team, in any game, can say if they cleaned up A or B they would've won. That means nothing. 

[AxnJxn]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

The bottom line is that this team has been playing much, much better for 3 weeks, outside of the Michigan no-show. Sure, maybe they played better at Illinois compared to last night, but that doesn't mean last night was a bad performance. 

Like we've all said, yes there were some mistakes and some unforced errors, but they were pretty minimal overall and never really snowballed on IU to the point where they lost control of the game. I guess I'm not sure what you're really expecting? There's a big difference between "good win, but we have some stuff to work on", and "well, I guess I'll take it, a win is a win". 

IU played well last night and overall as a unit IU played hard and played smart. Despite a couple things to work on, it just seems odd in my opinion to categorize it as anything else. 

I'm apparently not explaining myself well, because that's exactly what I'm saying, and I think I've even noted in multiple posts that it was a solid win, so I'm not really getting why some people are assuming that I want the team to be perfect or whatever. Frankly, it's kind of intellectually dishonest to be changing what I'm saying in my posts (not saying you personally are doing this, but it's happening with others). But, yeah, I'm expecting at this point to see this stuff that isn't showing on the stat sheet to not be happening, and I'm kind of surprised they still are. I've never said it wasn't a solid win (I believe I said at first that I thought we played a little flat, and I still do), but we're not going to get away with those mistakes against better teams, and I'm pretty sure that's where we'd all like to be. 

[AxnJxn]

6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Oh come on. The coulda woulda shoulda stuff? Really? Look, if you don't want to see that we played what I think pretty much everyone else sees as a solid (if not good) game, that's your prerogative. Any team, in any game, can say if they cleaned up A or B they would've won. That means nothing. 

Quote

but you are just ignoring that just hitting free throws would've made this a blow-out W,

So, just to clarify, it's ok for you to play coulda, woulda, shoulda, but I can't? 

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, AxnJxn said:

So, just to clarify, it's ok for you to play coulda, woulda, shoulda, but I can't? 

Do you look back at the 87 championship as a little tainted because it took Syracuse missing two front end of one and ones in the last 30 seconds for us to win that game.

[AxnJxn]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

You can say this same thing after every game and every team that play college basketball.  You think Maryland's fan were crying after they beat us by 1 in AH saying that if IU did not turn the ball over late we would have lost.

I'm responding to people who are saying if we had made 3s or FTs or whatever, that the final margin would have been worse, and I was just pointing out that Minnesota can say the same thing. Is there some reason you aren't calling out the original posts that I was responding to?

[5fouls]

2 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

So, just to clarify, it's ok for you to play coulda, woulda, shoulda, but I can't? 

I've always put 'woulda' in front of 'coulda'.  

[IU Scott]

Just now, AxnJxn said:

I'm responding to people who are saying if we had made 3s or FTs or whatever, that the final margin would have been worse, and I was just pointing out that Minnesota can say the same thing. Is there some reason you aren't calling out the original posts that I was responding to?

You and some others are trying to tone down the win a little with your post and some of us are happy with the win despite some bad play.  Like I said if you are waiting for the perfect game then you will be waiting because it has never happened.

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I'm apparently not explaining myself well, because that's exactly what I'm saying, and I think I've even noted in multiple posts that it was a solid win, so I'm not really getting why some people are assuming that I want the team to be perfect or whatever. Frankly, it's kind of intellectually dishonest to be changing what I'm saying in my posts (not saying you personally are doing this, but it's happening with others). But, yeah, I'm expecting at this point to see this stuff that isn't showing on the stat sheet to not be happening, and I'm kind of surprised they still are. I've never said it wasn't a solid win (I believe I said at first that I thought we played a little flat, and I still do), but we're not going to get away with those mistakes against better teams, and I'm pretty sure that's where we'd all like to be. 

I hear you, and we're probably closer aligned than the conversation would indicate. I'm still a little disconnected on the mistakes thing, but that's fine. I thought our mistakes were pretty minimal. Some things to clean up? Absolutely. But I didn't see any of the mistakes as something stunning or appalling, and felt that overall we played a fairly clean, smart, hard game, and came away with a big W. 

[AxnJxn]

Just now, IU Scott said:

You and some others are trying to tone down the win a little with your post and some of us are happy with the win despite some bad play.  Like I said if you are waiting for the perfect game then you will be waiting because it has never happened.

I'm not trying to do anything like that. I've. Never. Said. I. Expect. A. Perfect. Game. Should I spell it out next? Please stop making up things I haven't posted. This very post of yours says "despite some bad play," so you admit there were things that could be improved. I'm simply saying I'd like to see those that are in the area of basketball IQ plays to get cleaned up. 

[Billingsley99]

10 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I've always put 'woulda' in front of 'coulda'.  

I'm a coulda woulda shoulda guy and my wife tells me I am always wrong about most things so there is a pretty good chance that you are correct!!

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, AxnJxn said:

I'm not trying to do anything like that. I've. Never. Said. I. Expect. A. Perfect. Game. Should I spell it out next? Please stop making up things I haven't posted. This very post of yours says "despite some bad play," so you admit there were things that could be improved. I'm simply saying I'd like to see those that are in the area of basketball IQ plays to get cleaned up. 

Any games you will watch will have those bad plays.  I bet most other fans are not on message boards complaining about them after a huge win.

[dwtaylor1055]

Lets all be happy, its 60 and sunny in B-town the day after a good solid win that I feel  helped punch/seal our ticket into the NCAA tourney.  Lose to the badgers, it'll hurt us BUT not near enough to move us out of the dance. 

[AxnJxn]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I hear you, and we're probably closer aligned than the conversation would indicate. I'm still a little disconnected on the mistakes thing, but that's fine. I thought our mistakes were pretty minimal. Some things to clean up? Absolutely. But I didn't see any of the mistakes as something stunning or appalling, and felt that overall we played a fairly clean, smart, hard game, and came away with a big W. 

Agreed, and even the best teams make some basketball IQ mistakes, and I get that. It also bothers me when we don't capitalize on 2 for 1 situations at the end of each half, and I've learned to accept that we just don't do that, but in a league with so much parity, every possession is huge. That's why I'd like to see what seems like basic stuff get cleaned up. Saturday should be a better indicator of how much this team has improved, too.