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28 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

Point to a coach?


Pearl, first power conference team was Tennessee. He was there for 6 years and made the tourney all 6.

Mack, went to Xavier and went to the tourney his first three years and 7 of the first 8. Then went to dumpster fire Louisville and took them to tourney first year and they are top 10 in his second.

Beard at frigging Texas Tech. Second year Elite 8 and third year in the championship game....at Texas Tech.

Few made the sweet 16 each of his first two years and has made the tourney every year he has been at Gonzaga.

This response is not a shot at Archie but for every Coach K went 0-90 at Duke example there are also plenty of coaches that had quicker starts.

 

I'll give you Beard, but the other three examples weren't rebuilding at a foundational level like Archie. 

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4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I'll give you Beard, but the other three examples weren't rebuilding at a foundational level like Archie. 

This could go on and on, as there are plenty of other examples, but Mack’s Louisville position/outlook looked more precarious than Archie’s. Pearl took over a Tennessee team that finished 14-17 and had not been to the tourney for 4 years. It almost seems as though there is a narrative trying to make it seem the Archie inherited the same mess that Crean did. 

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5 minutes ago, IU878176 said:

This could go on and on, as there are plenty of other examples, but Mack’s Louisville position/outlook looked more precarious than Archie’s. Pearl took over a Tennessee team that finished 14-17 and had not been to the tourney for 4 years. It almost seems as though there is a narrative trying to make it seem the Archie inherited the same mess that Crean did. 

Well I said before Crean got fired that I thought he was leaving us in nearly as bad of shape as he found us, so that's not exactly a new position for me. 

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9 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I just don't understand why some of you even keep watching if it makes you that miserable maybe it is time to do something else with your time.

No. I’ll always love IU basketball and I don’t care if my passion comes across as too much. I’ll never change. I’ll live and die IU basketball for the rest of my life. 

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1 hour ago, IU878176 said:

This could go on and on, as there are plenty of other examples, but Mack’s Louisville position/outlook looked more precarious than Archie’s. Pearl took over a Tennessee team that finished 14-17 and had not been to the tourney for 4 years. It almost seems as though there is a narrative trying to make it seem the Archie inherited the same mess that Crean did. 

Here is a list of 12 coaches who missed the tourney in 2 of their first 3 years or longer (BracketMatrix had us as a 9 seed on average going into Wisconsin game, so we are probably still in as of now with worse seeds losing as well Saturday so it's not like we are out of the picture). I have a list of 12 coaches that counter it and go with your argument too in making the tournament the first 2 years I could post if you really want it also. Yes there are coaches who win right away but it isn't like there are only two coaches who have ever taken multiple years to rebuild a program. If you want to argue Mack, sure go for it. Pearl though, dude is like a walking NCAA Violation Magnet at every stop (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2019/4/4/18295241/bruce-pearl-final-four-timeline-infractions-auburn-lowa-deon-thomas-wire-milwaukee-violations) so that completely takes out the original argument of "doing things the right way" and he literally just started at Auburn without making the tourney for 3 full years

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9 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I would bet if RMK would have said the same thing everyone would be applauding what he said.  I know a lot of you don't like Archie but getting on him for saying this is ridiculous.

I don’t dislike Archie. I know that’s your go to post if anyone ever criticizes him, but that’s not the case with me. 
 

I don’t like what he said in this instance. Try reading my response to Blue as to why I said I don’t like it when any coach does it including our own. 

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8 hours ago, Jackson Kellogs said:

Well that’s unfortunate. 

image.jpgOur boys at Kilroy’s Sports tonight! Justin, Al, De’Ron, and Devonte! Don’t blame them!! 

So I am somewhat torn in instances like this.  I know for a fact that IU players enjoyed the night life during Knight's tenure (I personally saw them at house parties while on campus and also drank with at least one of them on my front porch after a win over Kentucky late in Knight's tenure), being a student with them, you know that they are students and young guys just like you.  I think adults sometimes get a little too judgemental about stuff like this....then again....if you were to take me to the side and ask me what I thought one of the biggest issues with this team is, those 4 would be where I would start.

It is a fishbowl in Bloomington for them, fair or not, a little discretion can sometimes go a long way.  Stay out of the bar and go to a house party with people you know.  It makes it so that pictures like this are less likely to be circulated and add fuel to the fire.

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11 hours ago, IU878176 said:

I agree with much of your post except for saying IU fans are incredibly impatient. I think the fans (most of them) have been patient. This is his third year and his Big Ten records have been 9-9 (6th place) 8-12th (9th)  and now 9-11 (10th place). Ironically his best conference record was with the supposedly horrendous roster he inherited.  Many fan bases would be more impatient as there are a ton of places that would be drawing 7-8,000 fans a game at this point.
Impatient was when Archie was first hired and 75% of the posters predicted we would be in the tourney his first year and most of the other 25% stated it would probably be year two. The “patience” has been that we keep moving the goal post to where we are now satisfied if the team “shows up” and we make the tourney, This is Indiana. We have now gone four years in a row without winning more than half of our Big Ten games. That has not happened since the 1930-1934 seasons so yes....I think we have been relatively patient. 

I’m still in the camp of giving him another year or two, am excited about next years class (especially if Lander reclassifies) and agree that we have improved as the year ended as our effort, defense, turnovers and offense (we are getting a ton of good shots but not hitting enough of them) are all improving.  The skeptical side of me, however, can’t believe I’m happy with improvement primarily because we are finally consistently playing hard while still  losing 3 of our last 4. 

I’m looking forward to Wednesday as I think a win will get us in the tourney which is a big step towards getting the team, program, coaches and fans in the right direction. I really hope Archie works out as another coaching change would be hard to take.

Well said. This sums up where I am. There has been progress, and there should be no discussion of Miller being booted this offseason. I don't know that it's so much a coaching/recruiting issue as a player development. Some of that takes time, some of it is on the coaches, and a lot of it is on the players.

The only thing on the recruiting front I cannot understand for the life of me, is how come everyone else has shooters and we have none. This is the era of guard dominance and 3 point shooting. How can we not find one or two deadeye shooters to put on the floor?

All that said, I feel like we should have been able to win one of Maryland home, Wiscy home, and  both Purdue games. In other words just 1 of 4 of that group. To not be able to win one of those meaningful games is unacceptable. A loss round one BTT should put us out of the NCAA IMO. In fact, personally, I feel like we need to win two games to prove we belong. That's just my standard for how this season has felt - despite the clear progress. While the team has grown in certain areas, I want a mentally tougher team that doesn't go on massive scoring droughts as a B1G rep. Now go win two and show me you're capable of finishing!

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46 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

So I am somewhat torn in instances like this.  I know for a fact that IU players enjoyed the night life during Knight's tenure (I personally saw them at house parties while on campus and also drank with at least one of them on my front porch after a win over Kentucky late in Knight's tenure), being a student with them, you know that they are students and young guys just like you.  I think adults sometimes get a little too judgemental about stuff like this....then again....if you were to take me to the side and ask me what I thought one of the biggest issues with this team is, those 4 would be where I would start.

It is a fishbowl in Bloomington for them, fair or not, a little discretion can sometimes go a long way.  Stay out of the bar and go to a house party with people you know.  It makes it so that pictures like this are less likely to be circulated and add fuel to the fire.

I feel like I missed something here, because I don’t understand what the big deal is. If this was the night before the game, then yeah, this would be a problem. They just lost a really difficult game, and we don’t play again until Wednesday  Go blow off a little steam, then get back to work the next day. I think it’s a little weird to even post this pic. 

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14 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I feel like I missed something here, because I don’t understand what the big deal is. If this was the night before the game, then yeah, this would be a problem. They just lost a really difficult game, and we don’t play again until Wednesday  Go blow off a little steam, then get back to work the next day. I think it’s a little weird to even post this pic. 

Fans get wrapped up in thinking the guys do not take it seriously.  A photo like this is just going to reinforce whatever narrative someone already has about the players. 

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I didn't get to see the game, and after reading your reports, I'm glad I missed it!

This team seems to swing from being a top 25 team to B1G cellar dweller often in the same game.

Wednesday is a big game in my view.   Can this team put all the negativity behind and play at the high level they are capable of?  Or will they phone it in and barely win or even lose.  Can CAM keep this team focused?

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52 minutes ago, D-BONE said:

Well said. This sums up where I am. There has been progress, and there should be no discussion of Miller being booted this offseason. I don't know that it's so much a coaching/recruiting issue as a player development. Some of that takes time, some of it is on the coaches, and a lot of it is on the players.

The only thing on the recruiting front I cannot understand for the life of me, is how come everyone else has shooters and we have none. This is the era of guard dominance and 3 point shooting. How can we not find one or two deadeye shooters to put on the floor?

All that said, I feel like we should have been able to win one of Maryland home, Wiscy home, and  both Purdue games. In other words just 1 of 4 of that group. To not be able to win one of those meaningful games is unacceptable. A loss round one BTT should put us out of the NCAA IMO. In fact, personally, I feel like we need to win two games to prove we belong. That's just my standard for how this season has felt - despite the clear progress. While the team has grown in certain areas, I want a mentally tougher team that doesn't go on massive scoring droughts as a B1G rep. Now go win two and show me you're capable of finishing!

Sure we lost those games, but you're ignoring some really great wins. 

The question isn't if you think we meet some entirely subjective standard of what you've determined looks like a tournament team; the question is who are these teams that deserve to get in over us if we don't win two games?

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14 hours ago, IU878176 said:

This could go on and on, as there are plenty of other examples, but Mack’s Louisville position/outlook looked more precarious than Archie’s. Pearl took over a Tennessee team that finished 14-17 and had not been to the tourney for 4 years. It almost seems as though there is a narrative trying to make it seem the Archie inherited the same mess that Crean did. 

It took Pearl 4 years to turn around Auburn nd like others have said look at Beilein at UM, Bennett at UVA, Izzo at MSU, Wright at Villanova, Coach K at Duke and could go on as well.

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7 hours ago, Parakeet Jones said:

I don’t dislike Archie. I know that’s your go to post if anyone ever criticizes him, but that’s not the case with me. 
 

I don’t like what he said in this instance. Try reading my response to Blue as to why I said I don’t like it when any coach does it including our own. 

So what did he say that was bad at all?

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

So what did he say that was bad at all?

First off, I don’t like Lunardi and and I don’t want any coach to legitimize him by acknowledging him. 
 

Second, I think it sounds whiny for any coach to say. I really don’t want our coach sounding like that or giving other fan bases ammo for accusing him of sounding like that. 
 

Third, and you are going to have to take my word that I don’t dislike Archie or want him fired and not come at me with that junk on this, but he hasn’t won jack crap at IU YET.   No B1G titles, no NCAA appearance, not even above 0.500 in B1G play. Notice I capitalized yet, it’s coming, but it hasn’t happened yet. Until he actually accomplishes something here, which I believe he will, but until he does just ignore stupid stuff like Lunardi, shut up, and coach. 
 

You referenced how people would feel if RMK said something like this. That’s a poor comparison. With his track record of accomplishments it would be different than the boat Archie is in now. He had earned the right to get a bit mouthy. 
 

Finally, how would folks be reacting if a third year coach at Purdue, Illinois, or Wisconsin with the same record in his first three years sitting below 0.500 in conference play said the same thing? We’d still be calling Lunardi an idiot, but you know as well as I do he’d be getting roasted here and mocked relentlessly.  I just hate to see Archie put himself in that position. 
 

In reality none of this matters. I wasn’t a fan of what he did. I’m in the minority. I get that. That’s fine. But to say someone just doesn’t like Archie and that is why it’s being criticized by some is just really off base. 

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7 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

First off, I don’t like Lunardi and and I don’t want any coach to legitimize him by acknowledging him. 
 

Second, I think it sounds whiny for any coach to say. I really don’t want our coach sounding like that or giving other fan bases ammo for accusing him of sounding like that. 
 

Third, and you are going to have to take my word that I don’t dislike Archie or want him fired and not come at me with that junk on this, but he hasn’t won jack crap at IU YET.   No B1G titles, no NCAA appearance, not even above 0.500 in B1G play. Notice I capitalized yet, it’s coming, but it hasn’t happened yet. Until he actually accomplishes something here, which I believe he will, but until he does just ignore stupid stuff like Lunardi, shut up, and coach. 
 

You referenced how people would feel if RMK said something like this. That’s a poor comparison. With his track record of accomplishments it would be different than the boat Archie is in now. He had earned the right to get a bit mouthy. 
 

Finally, how would folks be reacting if a third year coach at Purdue, Illinois, or Wisconsin with the same record in his first three years sitting below 0.500 in conference play said the same thing? We’d still be calling Lunardi an idiot, but you know as well as I do he’d be getting roasted here and mocked relentlessly.  I just hate to see Archie put himself in that position. 
 

In reality none of this matters. I wasn’t a fan of what he did. I’m in the minority. I get that. That’s fine. But to say someone just doesn’t like Archie and that is why it’s being criticized by some is just really off base. 

You have the right to your opinion and I just disagree with how this looks.  I just don't see anything wrong with what he said and is just people wanting to nitpick every little thing he says.

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Just now, IU Scott said:

You have the right to your opinion and I just disagree with how this looks.  I just don't see anything wrong with what he said and is just people wanting to nitpick every little thing he says.


That’s fine we see this differently.  No big deal  

But just to be clear, after reading my reasoning for not liking it, you think I’m just looking to nitpick?  

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19 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:


That’s fine we see this differently.  No big deal  

But just to be clear, after reading my reasoning for not liking it, you think I’m just looking to nitpick?  

Yes because what he said was correct and noting he said should make anyone upset.  

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