Cal and Cuban talk IU-UK restarting series

[BGleas]

12 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Good call...but playing in the national spotlight gets you on kids radar. To do that you need to be playing in prime time...national tv against a blue blood and it needs to be a game with some relevance. IU vs UK...that game gets everyone’s attention. If it’s about scheduling to put IU back in the recruiting spotlight, national media spotlight. This gives credence to our programs return, boosts our rankings (lets be real media perception is reality often when it comes to a ranking) and boosts our visability and relevance to recruits. That is where I’m going with this...maybe I’m wrong but to me if I’m AD and I have Archie doing his thing...I am working to get that game scheduled and step up the pace on this turnaround.

I completely agree with you. I didn’t mean my post to disagree with you. 

[dgambill]

20 hours ago, BGleas said:

I completely agree with you. I didn’t mean my post to disagree with you. 

No didn’t mean you did. Sometimes I respond when I like a post and just want to add something. I think we are of like minds. As Archie builds the program the schedule has to step up too and to get the program back to competing for a NC the best way is to take that leap into battling a UK/UNC/KU/Duke/UCLA or maybe even Villanova on a regular basis. We need to put the program back into the national spotlight and it never should have been allowed to leave it.

[milehiiu]

16 minutes ago, dgambill said:

We need to put the program back into the national spotlight and it never should have been allowed to leave it.

IMHO.  It can be done without UK on the schedule.  First responsibility relies upon Coach Miller.  Win, win, win. The games that are on the future schedules.  Trust me. Do that, and the national spotlight that has dimmed since Sampsongate, will be shinning bright again.

[BobSaccamanno]

Cuban is such an ideas guy.  He’s full of them.  He’s great.  We’d be so much better off with him on the BoT it’s not even funny.   I doubt you could get him, but he’s got the type of thinking that would change the logic and trajectory of the university to an infinitely better place.  He’s great at challenging traditional dogma and understanding the value added concept.  He would find the areas where we are bloated and fix them by bringing a basic sensibility that’s lacking in the administration.  

[ThePaulieWalnuts]

On 4/13/2020 at 5:21 PM, BGleas said:

I'm going to get hammered for this, but just reading the article and no other parts of the discussion Cal and Cuban had, I'm with Cal on this. This is part of what I haven't liked about the IU administration. IU isn't creative. IU isn't forward thinking. IU is typically behind the pack, not ahead of it. 

Cal is already brainstorming ways to be the first team back playing games on TV. Just off the top of his head, he developed a headline event to be the first game back when this entire quarantine is over, even coming with the play without fans to be the first game on TV before the quarantine is over. 

I don't see the problem with it. Watch IU sleep on this because we're mad he won't play home/home, and then Cal throws this together with ESPN and plays Louisville, MSU or OSU and it's a huge national TV event. 

 

That’s exactly what will happen.  The IU administration is a few french fries short of a happy meal.  The whole state of Indiana is a step slower than the rest of the country, still stuck in 1978.

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, ThePaulieWalnuts said:

That’s exactly what will happen.  The IU administration is a few french fries short of a happy meal.  The whole state of Indiana is a step slower than the rest of the country, still stuck in 1978.

Especially the athletic department. To be honest, I don't really know much about Scott Dolson or the other guys that were in the running for the AD job, other than knowing Reynolds played at IU of course, but my perception of hiring Dolson (which may be completely wrong) is that the hire keeps the athletic department as an uninspiring group. Again, I could be wrong, could just be my perception. 

But, I really want IU to have a forward thinking athletic department. One that is ahead of the curve, not behind the times and playing catch up. 

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Cuban is such an ideas guy.  He’s full of them.  He’s great.  We’d be so much better off with him on the BoT it’s not even funny.   I doubt you could get him, but he’s got the type of thinking that would change the logic and trajectory of the university to an infinitely better place.  He’s great at challenging traditional dogma and understanding the value added concept.  He would find the areas where we are bloated and fix them by bringing a basic sensibility that’s lacking in the administration.  

I'd agree.

Obnoxious at times, but he's definitely been an out-of-the-box thinker that could stir the pot in a good way.

Of course, that's why  a stuck-in-the-mud administration would oppose him...kind of like the way many of the faculty at Purdue opposed Mitch Daniels.  They knew he'd be creative and quite possibly upset their cozy little fiefdoms.

[milehiiu]

26 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

I'd agree.

Obnoxious at times, but he's definitely been an out-of-the-box thinker that could stir the pot in a good way.

Of course, that's why  a stuck-in-the-mud administration would oppose him...kind of like the way many of the faculty at Purdue opposed Mitch Daniels.  They knew he'd be creative and quite possibly upset their cozy little fiefdoms.

I do like Mark. However there was a time when he refused to give any monies to IU's BB program, due to his dislike of the NCAA, and their rules and regulations.  Thankfully, he has had a change of heart, an has contributed much money to develop a state of the art media center in the refurbished Assembly Hall.

Mark Cuban Center for Sports Media and Technology Announcement 

Rich Nye interviews Mark Cuban about $5M donation to IU 

Mark Cuban Snuck into MBA Business Classes at Indiana University

[BornHoosier]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

No didn’t mean you did. Sometimes I respond when I like a post and just want to add something. I think we are of like minds. As Archie builds the program the schedule has to step up too and to get the program back to competing for a NC the best way is to take that leap into battling a UK/UNC/KU/Duke/UCLA or maybe even Villanova on a regular basis. We need to put the program back into the national spotlight and it never should have been allowed to leave it.

I agree 100% but it takes two to tangle correct?  Coach Cal's biggest hang up is he doesn't want to play at the HALL because of the rushing of the Court which put his players in danger!  I get that as his players witnessed the best fans in basketball during a resurgent moment in our history!  Let's be honest, there is no better home field advantage in NCAAM than the Assembly Hall!  You Rank'em, WE Spank'em!!!  It's KNOWN, so I get why Coach Cal doesn't want to bring his 5 star darlings into the HALL!  It's up IU to accept their terms to play offsite which is better than no game at all!  Best Rivalry in College Basketball must continue!

[BornHoosier]

As much as the WatShot meant for this program, it was the storming of the court that killed the Rivalry!  I get the thinking from Coach Cal, a program like IU should've never stormed the court like a buffalo stampede!  As KY is winning NC's, he doesn't understand our passion to get back to relevance which this victory gave us slim hope!  KY doesn't need IU on the schedule like IU needs KY.  Let's agree to whatever terms presented and kick their butts at their own game!

[FKIM01]

31 minutes ago, BornHoosier said:

As much as the WatShot meant for this program, it was the storming of the court that killed the Rivalry!  I get the thinking from Coach Cal, a program like IU should've never stormed the court like a buffalo stampede!  As KY is winning NC's, he doesn't understand our passion to get back to relevance which this victory gave us slim hope!  KY doesn't need IU on the schedule like IU needs KY.  Let's agree to whatever terms presented and kick their butts at their own game!

Nope...we won't agree on this one.

While I very much enjoyed watching IU's last contest against UK knocking them out of March Madness, I'm determined as a fan to see IU prove that they don't need the game to return to greatness.  Once IU is back where they belong, I think the pressure will be great enough on Cal that he is no longer able to dictate the terms.  It's obvious what he wanted was an annual showcase game in Indianapolis to build UK's brand in Indiana and help him recruit Indiana more effectively.  That's BS.  I'm fine with renewing the series, but Cal's proposal was one-sided and self-interested.  I'm not interested in any proposed series structure that allows him to steal more of Indiana's prime recruits with virtually nothing in return.  There was nothing unreasonable about asking for one game out of every four to be played in Bloomington where IU's recruits could watch a showcase game.

[BornHoosier]

2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Nope...we won't agree on this one.

While I very much enjoyed watching IU's last contest against UK knocking them out of March Madness, I'm determined as a fan to see IU prove that they don't need the game to return to greatness.  Once IU is back where they belong, I think the pressure will be great enough on Cal that he is no longer able to dictate the terms.  It's obvious what he wanted was an annual showcase game in Indianapolis to build UK's brand in Indiana and help him recruit Indiana more effectively.  That's BS.  I'm fine with renewing the series, but Cal's proposal was one-sided and self-interested.  I'm not interested in any proposed series structure that allows him to steal more of Indiana's prime recruits with virtually nothing in return.  There was nothing unreasonable about asking for one game out of every four to be played in Bloomington where IU's recruits could watch a showcase game.

Not disagreeing here but I'm on the fence that it doesn't matter where we play as long as we play!  I'm not worried about Coach Cal stealing our recruits as I'm worried about Tom Izzo like history says!  I like where were at as a program to go head to head with Kentucky no matter the stakes!  Look at this as an opportunity rather than a negativity my friend!  Hoosiers will prevail over darkness!

[dgambill]

20 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Nope...we won't agree on this one.

While I very much enjoyed watching IU's last contest against UK knocking them out of March Madness, I'm determined as a fan to see IU prove that they don't need the game to return to greatness.  Once IU is back where they belong, I think the pressure will be great enough on Cal that he is no longer able to dictate the terms.  It's obvious what he wanted was an annual showcase game in Indianapolis to build UK's brand in Indiana and help him recruit Indiana more effectively.  That's BS.  I'm fine with renewing the series, but Cal's proposal was one-sided and self-interested.  I'm not interested in any proposed series structure that allows him to steal more of Indiana's prime recruits with virtually nothing in return.  There was nothing unreasonable about asking for one game out of every four to be played in Bloomington where IU's recruits could watch a showcase game.

You think not having a game in Indy is going to stop Cal from taking Indiana recruits?? That right there is just why I can’t understand. Stopped him from getting Lyles and Brooks. It didn’t even stop him from getting Romeo....Cal and his father were never on the same page and the only reason we got him was because UL got hammered. Cal doesn’t need a game in Indy to showcase UK...he showcases UK every dang night on ESPN and in these huge national showcase games with DUke/KU/MSU etc. Why do you think UK playing in Indy helps Cal get recruits but doesn’t help us? I really like to understand this. You honestly think kids in Indiana don’t know anything about Uk and will suddenly want to play there because we played them in Indy instead of Bloomington? If anything we stand more to gain in recruiting being in the spotlight with UK then the opposite.  

[FKIM01]

12 minutes ago, dgambill said:

You think not having a game in Indy is going to stop Cal from taking Indiana recruits?? That right there is just why I can’t understand. Stopped him from getting Lyles and Brooks. It didn’t even stop him from getting Romeo....Cal and his father were never on the same page and the only reason we got him was because UL got hammered. Cal doesn’t need a game in Indy to showcase UK...he showcases UK every dang night on ESPN and in these huge national showcase games with DUke/KU/MSU etc. Why do you think UK playing in Indy helps Cal get recruits but doesn’t help us? I really like to understand this. You honestly think kids in Indiana don’t know anything about Uk and will suddenly want to play there because we played them in Indy instead of Bloomington? If anything we stand more to gain in recruiting being in the spotlight with UK then the opposite.  

If you don't think an annual showcase game in Indianapolis raises UK's profile in Indiana, I don't know what to say. For Pete's sake...no one pretended he wasn't getting any Indiana recruits. I have no interest in helping him any further unless he's willing to stop being a pansy and play in Bloomington.

You seriously think Cal "offered" to play every game in Indianapolis because he thought it would help IU more?

[Euroclydon]

I'll say it again, not interested in playing Whiny Cal. IU has beaten him in two of the last three anyway.

As I recall, uk is the one who keeps flip flopping on where games should be played. Through the 70's and most of the 80's it was home and home. Then they wanted it to be neutral court. Then they wanted it to be home and home again. Cal realized he's not a lock to win in true road games in non-conference so he created an excuse and demanded it be neutral court again. 

What is interesting is how things seem to be changing.

1. Cal's one and done philosophy is showing some vulnerability with the annual mass exodus. Even some of their fans have been questioning it of late. One title in eleven seasons with an ocean of talent that, with the exception of Duke, no other program can come close to matching. An argument can be made Cal is underachieving.

2. Speaking of Duke, over the past handful of seasons they have challenged uk with top ranked recruiting classes. Did they steal the one and done idea from uk? Does it matter? One thing is ceratin, uk fans don't like it and for good reason. They understand Cal needs the best class to have any shot at a title. 

3. The G League may be about the destroy the whole one and done setup. It could go either way, but if the trend grows it could really hit these programs who rely on stacking class after class of the top players. 

All of this change has created a fear of the unknown among uk fans. What happens when you can't win the title with many of the best players as it is and now and those players may be going away?

The end result is you see a fan base that is absolutely giddy about a transfer from Rhode Island that was unranked coming out of high school (zero stars) . A fan base hyped over another transfer from Creighton that did not play last season. What you get is a fan base convinced the key to next season, in spite of another topped ranked recruiting class,  is a potential transfer that averaged 8 points and 4 rebounds last season. Do you see the change?

Finally, you have a coach that previously ripped the grad transfer process and is now relying on it. You have reports of a program that is changing their philosophy . Why? Because the current philosophy is not working. And you have a fan base praying the NCAA approves the one-time transfer waiver rule. Why? So they can fill in their missing pieces with players from other programs best players. 

 

[MaroonRebel]

I would be fine with a one time game with UK to open the 21-22 season. It would be huge coverage. I however do not want to give UK a spotlight game in Indianapolis. I personally believe Cal ended the series because he did not want IU to be his first home loss. We were ranked #1 preseason and Cal had not loss at home in his career at that point and was striking out in recruiting that season. The thought that he would lose to Indiana in back to back years and lose his undefeated home streak to Indiana was going to elevate IU and harm UK’s recruiting. Cal then rebrands UK into a “non traditional team” and said he was only going to play neutral court non conference games. This rebranding elevates UK and makes Traditional programs like IU antiquated. This makes the Gray haired nation “BBN” happy while devaluing their season tickets. They get to feel their program is special, and seem not to miss two quality home games. UK will get it’s  share of recruits, but it’s share is shrinking. We do not want to throw them any kind of support by giving them a spotlight game in Indy. I live in Kentucky and I can tell you they are worried that Cal won’t win with recruits in the 50-100 range. They think he needs the top twenty recruits, and the last 9 years seems to support their worries.

[GaloisGroupe]

How about the game is in Cincinnati?

[FKIM01]

8 hours ago, GaloisGroupe said:

How about the game is in Cincinnati?

That would definitely help my attitude about the game.  It's close enough to likely be well-attended and wouldn't give him his Indy showcase with nothing in return.

Of course, Cal would likely find a reason to say no.  I still think the four year rotating proposal was plenty fair, but old PayPal Cal wants the deal that benefits him most.  No surprise there.

[IUCrazy2]

1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

That would definitely help my attitude about the game.  It's close enough to likely be well-attended and wouldn't give him his Indy showcase with nothing in return.

Of course, Cal would likely find a reason to say no.  I still think the four year rotating proposal was plenty fair, but old PayPal Cal wants the deal that benefits him most.  No surprise there.

Why would we want to give the income generated around that game to Ohio?

[dgambill]

Can anyone explain how playing in Indy is a showcase to our Indiana kids?? If you think UK gets the most out of the game then you just don’t understand IUs position in college basketball right now. Other than the gate $$ how does location matter? Everything is global/national with TV. You think local Indy kids would suddenly want to play for UK more if they play a game every other year in Indy as opposed to playing in Bloomington? It’s also assuming we lose to them in Indy as well because wouldn’t beating them when they are in Indy be better? I just don’t get it. If a kid likes UKs style and way of running things and they are good enough...they will go there...see Brooks. If they don’t...and they like IU...they will stay home. If I’m wrong I’ll admit it but imo this comes down to people thinking we stand more of a chance to win in Assembly with 17000 fans on our side as opposed to a split arena. This letting Kentucky recruit Indiana is just dumb...they have and always will recruit wherever they want a kid. To think we are going to somehow stop UK from recruiting our back yard just because we won’t play them...makes no sense and I say that with all due respect. If anything playing them and beating them and showing we have a better program is the solution to that...and that is done by playing them.

[Seeking6]

11 hours ago, GaloisGroupe said:

How about the game is in Cincinnati?

Nope for me. Why would we help an out of state economy? This is either Indiana or Kentucky for me....with the preference being equal turns. 

[FW_Hoosier]

42 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Can anyone explain how playing in Indy is a showcase to our Indiana kids?? If you think UK gets the most out of the game then you just don’t understand IUs position in college basketball right now. Other than the gate $$ how does location matter? Everything is global/national with TV. You think local Indy kids would suddenly want to play for UK more if they play a game every other year in Indy as opposed to playing in Bloomington? It’s also assuming we lose to them in Indy as well because wouldn’t beating them when they are in Indy be better? I just don’t get it. If a kid likes UKs style and way of running things and they are good enough...they will go there...see Brooks. If they don’t...and they like IU...they will stay home. If I’m wrong I’ll admit it but imo this comes down to people thinking we stand more of a chance to win in Assembly with 17000 fans on our side as opposed to a split arena. This letting Kentucky recruit Indiana is just dumb...they have and always will recruit wherever they want a kid. To think we are going to somehow stop UK from recruiting our back yard just because we won’t play them...makes no sense and I say that with all due respect. If anything playing them and beating them and showing we have a better program is the solution to that...and that is done by playing them.

Any argument against starting the series back up at neutral sites is based solely on propping up the egos of fans pining for the glory days... That is the one and only reason not to do it.

That being said, the back and forth between Cuban and Cal was dumb IMO.  None of Cuban’s suggestions would ever work in reality.

[IUCrazy2]

26 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Nope for me. Why would we help an out of state economy? This is either Indiana or Kentucky for me....with the preference being equal turns. 

To me if it is a neutral court game, Indianapolis should be the only place we play.  Kentucky doesn't have the venue without playing on Louisville's home court.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Can anyone explain how playing in Indy is a showcase to our Indiana kids?? If you think UK gets the most out of the game then you just don’t understand IUs position in college basketball right now. Other than the gate $$ how does location matter? Everything is global/national with TV. You think local Indy kids would suddenly want to play for UK more if they play a game every other year in Indy as opposed to playing in Bloomington? It’s also assuming we lose to them in Indy as well because wouldn’t beating them when they are in Indy be better? I just don’t get it. If a kid likes UKs style and way of running things and they are good enough...they will go there...see Brooks. If they don’t...and they like IU...they will stay home. If I’m wrong I’ll admit it but imo this comes down to people thinking we stand more of a chance to win in Assembly with 17000 fans on our side as opposed to a split arena. This letting Kentucky recruit Indiana is just dumb...they have and always will recruit wherever they want a kid. To think we are going to somehow stop UK from recruiting our back yard just because we won’t play them...makes no sense and I say that with all due respect. If anything playing them and beating them and showing we have a better program is the solution to that...and that is done by playing them.

My thinking is that regular season should be played on campus because it should be for the students over anyone else.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

My thinking is that regular season should be played on campus because it should be for the students over anyone else.

So we shouldn’t play in Maui or crossroads or Madison sq garden promo game with UConn?? Students don’t even use all their tickets? You don’t think we could have as big or bigger student section in Indy if we so choose to put a section under the basket and bus them up?? So many options and honestly if the AD probably thought he could get away with putting in more vip seating and it would cost student seats they would do it in a minute to make more money.

i don’t want all our games on neutral sites plus season ticket holders deserves good entertainment but if there is one game worth having at a neutral site it would be UK.