Cal and Cuban talk IU-UK restarting series

[IU Scott]

44 minutes ago, Euroclydon said:

Give Cal credit for constantly trying to find ways to promote himself and his program. He is the quintessential used care salesman with streamers, balloons, and the blow up tube man flailing all about. It's no longer about winning at uk as much as it is about Cal being able to say he made all the players successful and wealthy. Remember, he has been saying it's a player's program now. He does have a lot of guys getting to the NBA, but not a lot of tiles to show for it. The real question is, wouldn't most, if not all, of those players be in the NBA regardless? This bothers a lot of uk fans who are more interested in titles. 

The latest talk is they are changing their program to add experience every year now. The Herald Leader has an article saying the same thing but calling it a philosophical tweak. You can translate that to mean, it ain't working! If it was working they wouldn't need to change anything. I'll go a step further and say the real issue is it ain't working for uk as well as it is working for Duke. That burns many uk fans.

He has said the best day in UK history was when they had 6 players drafted.  As a fan I would never want to hear my coach say that because winning a championship trumps getting players drafted.

[dgambill]

7 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Growing up where I did I was never around UK fans so I never really cared about UK.  For me our biggest rival is Purdue and for me they will always be our biggest rivals.  For me when I look at our schedule, you already have 20 conference games in the top conference in the country.  I don't know why our fans want every non conference game to be against all top competition because we have to get some wins somewhere.  People say they want to see us play top competition but if we lose a couple early then they will go nuts and start ripping everyone.

Bobby had no problem playing the best in the non-conference. My opinion...I’m much more concerned about losing to Rutgers and Nebraska etc then losing to UK and Kansas. If we handle our business in the B1G like we should as a top program then we don’t have to worry about losing to top 10 programs in the non conference. If we want to recruit nationally and contend for a NC we have to schedule like a champion. 

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Bobby had no problem playing the best in the non-conference. My opinion...I’m much more concerned about losing to Rutgers and Nebraska etc then losing to UK and Kansas. If we handle our business in the B1G like we should as a top program then we don’t have to worry about losing to top 10 programs in the non conference. If we want to recruit nationally and contend for a NC we have to schedule like a champion. 

Bobby did not play all top teams because the Hoosier and Holiday classics had some easy wins in them.  He would play UK and ND every year and those 4 game sin those tournaments so back then that left 4 other games.  I remember games against Miami of Ohio, ISU, BSU so don't act like the whole non conference schedule was all top 20 teams.  The only complaint I have about our schedule today is playing teams of 300+ but we play as many top teams today than we did in the past.  RMK would sometimes have another top team to go with the ND and UK like UL or KU.

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Don't ge tme wrong I would love to play UK and it would be a great thing for college basketball.  What I am not in favor is to bow down to UK and do the series the way UK wants.

Why is neutral site bowing down to them? Every major program does these major out of conference matchups on neutral sites now days. They do it in the biggest venues to hold the most people...biggest national audience...and in such a way it is attractive to the kids recruiting. Thing is..people act like UK is the only one benefiting from playing in Indiana. You don’t think beating UK or playing them every year will draw national recruits to us too?! Heck we can have the game in New York for all I care. Have it in London...whatever it is the kids would benefit and so would the program. Finally yes both fan bases. It was done at Freedom Hall and Indy for so long....way way before home and home...why is that such a problem. Does anyone really think Cal can’t come into Indiana and have his pick of kids like 8 or 9 out of 10??? UK is on national tv all the time...Cal isn’t going to benefit by being able to play a game in Indy any more than he already can.

Tell yourself your protecting our home turf but that is just a blind arguement. The longer it goes on the more it hurts us fans and our players....and our reputation on a national level. Sure it was a bs reason to cancel the series....he didn’t like losing and the optics but you put a PR pressure on him. Tell him we will play him anywhere any time and prove he is the one running away. Later you can always go back to negotiating how location works. IU needs to be in the national spotlight. Playing Arkansas....pff that isn’t turning any 17 year olds head. When he sees us playing and competing with Duke, UK, NC, and Kansas that tells him this school is on that level and I want to play in that type of environment. Ok...said my piece..know it won’t change anyone’s mind and they won’t change mine on this topic...but I’d wager if we took a vote....people want a UK game no matter the location then no game.

[IU Scott]

11 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Why is neutral site bowing down to them? Every major program does these major out of conference matchups on neutral sites now days. They do it in the biggest venues to hold the most people...biggest national audience...and in such a way it is attractive to the kids recruiting. Thing is..people act like UK is the only one benefiting from playing in Indiana. You don’t think beating UK or playing them every year will draw national recruits to us too?! Heck we can have the game in New York for all I care. Have it in London...whatever it is the kids would benefit and so would the program. Finally yes both fan bases. It was done at Freedom Hall and Indy for so long....way way before home and home...why is that such a problem. Does anyone really think Cal can’t come into Indiana and have his pick of kids like 8 or 9 out of 10??? UK is on national tv all the time...Cal isn’t going to benefit by being able to play a game in Indy any more than he already can.

Tell yourself your protecting our home turf but that is just a blind arguement. The longer it goes on the more it hurts us fans and our players....and our reputation on a national level. Sure it was a bs reason to cancel the series....he didn’t like losing and the optics but you put a PR pressure on him. Tell him we will play him anywhere any time and prove he is the one running away. Later you can always go back to negotiating how location works. IU needs to be in the national spotlight. Playing Arkansas....pff that isn’t turning any 17 year olds head. When he sees us playing and competing with Duke, UK, NC, and Kansas that tells him this school is on that level and I want to play in that type of environment. Ok...said my piece..know it won’t change anyone’s mind and they won’t change mine on this topic...but I’d wager if we took a vote....people want a UK game no matter the location then no game.

For me and a lot of college basketball fans I think that regular season games should be on campus.  These games should be for the students first and foremost over any other fans so it is good for them to be able to see the games.  I also said in a 4 year span why not play two on campus and two on neutral sites.   From 1991 to 2006 they played neutral sites but the rest of the series int he regualar season was played on campus.  Also we have played Duke and UNC and KU a lot in the last 10 years and how has that really helped us.

[IUFLA]

39 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Bobby did not play all top teams because the Hoosier and Holiday classics had some easy wins in them.  He would play UK and ND every year and those 4 game sin those tournaments so back then that left 4 other games.  I remember games against Miami of Ohio, ISU, BSU so don't act like the whole non conference schedule was all top 20 teams.  The only complaint I have about our schedule today is playing teams of 300+ but we play as many top teams today than we did in the past.  RMK would sometimes have another top team to go with the ND and UK like UL or KU.

Go to this page, Scott and start looking at yearly strength of schedule

Under RMK, IU played a top ten SOS 20 times in 29 years...So he wasn't exactly playing a lot of cupcakes...

[dgambill]

21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

For me and a lot of college basketball fans I think that regular season games should be on campus.  These games should be for the students first and foremost over any other fans so it is good for them to be able to see the games.  I also said in a 4 year span why not play two on campus and two on neutral sites.   From 1991 to 2006 they played neutral sites but the rest of the series int he regualar season was played on campus.  Also we have played Duke and UNC and KU a lot in the last 10 years and how has that really helped us.

The students don’t even use all the tickets they get now from what I hear. If IU wants to donate 10000 tickets at Lucas oil and bus students so be it...it’s just these games aren’t played home and home like that really anymore. The big program out of conference games are generally played on neutral sites for bigger ticket sales and tv. No matter I understand what you are saying and we just disagree. 

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Go to this page, Scott and start looking at yearly strength of schedule

Under RMK, IU played a top ten SOS 20 times in 29 years...So he wasn't exactly playing a lot of cupcakes...

That’s what I remember...by the time B1G came around we were tested. Remember a lot of 500 starts because of how good the competition was. Guess we all remember what we want...but I never remembered the hoosier classics...it was the UK and KU etc etc.

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Go to this page, Scott and start looking at yearly strength of schedule

Under RMK, IU played a top ten SOS 20 times in 29 years...So he wasn't exactly playing a lot of cupcakes...

Just got back and looked at every year from 81 through RMK final year and we usually played 2-3 top 25 teams in the non conference which was usually UK and ND.  Like I said the difference was that he did not play to bottom feeders of D1 but he did not play anymore top caliber teams than we do now.  we had 2 years where we did not play a single top 25 team in the non conference.  The most we played was 5 and that was in 92-93 season.  The years where we  played 3+ in a year it was if we played in Maui or the pre season NIT.

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That’s what I remember...by the time B1G came around we were tested. Remember a lot of 500 starts because of how good the competition was. Guess we all remember what we want...but I never remembered the hoosier classics...it was the UK and KU etc etc.

I went to Holiday classic in Indy a lot of times and they were usually guaranteed wins.  Like I said he did not usually played the bottom feeders but teams that would probably be between 100-150.  Most years we always played UK and ND and then 1 other top team unless we played in a pre season tourney like Maui or the pre season tourney.  The rest were MAC schools or other Indiana schools.  We also would play a couple of average teams from top conferences.

[IU Scott]

This was the schedule from 86-87 and it was a typical schedule for RMK and it only had one team ranked in the top 25.

Montana St- which I attended 

at ND

UK (13)- by the way this game was played at AH

at Vanderbilt

UNC Wilmington

East Carolina

Morehead St

UL

Princeton at Market Square arena- I was at these two games

Illinois St. t Market Square arena.

[IUFLA]

26 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That’s what I remember...by the time B1G came around we were tested. Remember a lot of 500 starts because of how good the competition was. Guess we all remember what we want...but I never remembered the hoosier classics...it was the UK and KU etc etc.

Well unless you grab the Top 25 from the year before, and schedule the teams not in the B10 for your non-conference schedule, it ain't good enough for Scott I guess...

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Well unless you grab the Top 25 from the year before, and schedule the teams not in the B10 for your non-conference schedule, it ain't good enough for Scott I guess...

Just saying that we did not play any more top tier teams back then than we do today.

[IUFLA]

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Just saying that we did not play any more top tier teams back then than we do today.

Then why, in the subsequent 20 years since RMK's departure, have we only had a top 10 SOS 4 times, and only once in the past 10 years (2010)? 

Let's also throw this in there...if you would have scheduled Texas Tech for the 2018-19 season, you weren't scheduling a top 25 team. They were not ranked initially. At the end of the year they were 9th. But when you scheduled them, you had no idea...

If you would have scheduled them last year, you were scheduling a top 25 team (12th) but at the end of the year they were unranked...

So what you're asking, scheduling "Top 25 teams" is impossible to know. 

There are some teams you can count on to always be pretty good, but even those (UNC?) can fool you...

[rico]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Bobby did not play all top teams because the Hoosier and Holiday classics had some easy wins in them.  He would play UK and ND every year and those 4 game sin those tournaments so back then that left 4 other games.  I remember games against Miami of Ohio, ISU, BSU so don't act like the whole non conference schedule was all top 20 teams.  The only complaint I have about our schedule today is playing teams of 300+ but we play as many top teams today than we did in the past.  RMK would sometimes have another top team to go with the ND and UK like UL or KU.

You better re-think that a bit.  In 1981 we had Kentucky, at Notre Dame, at North Carolina, Cal, Baylor, at Kansas St., Rutgers, and Clemson.  We lost 4 of those games and 3 of those losses were to teams that were in the Top 10 when we played them.  FWIW, Kansas St. was not(we won) but they made it to the EE that year and fell to the Tar Heels.

[Indy1987]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Just got back and looked at every year from 81 through RMK final year and we usually played 2-3 top 25 teams in the non conference which was usually UK and ND.  Like I said the difference was that he did not play to bottom feeders of D1 but he did not play anymore top caliber teams than we do now.  we had 2 years where we did not play a single top 25 team in the non conference.  The most we played was 5 and that was in 92-93 season.  The years where we  played 3+ in a year it was if we played in Maui or the pre season NIT.

Not playing "bottom feeders" was part of the strong SOS.  The other factor overlooked is we actually played true road games back then.   Vandy and ND on the road were no cakewalk either.  

Go Hoosiers!!!

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Then why, in the subsequent 20 years since RMK's departure, have we only had a top 10 SOS 4 times, and only once in the past 10 years (2010)? 

Let's also throw this in there...if you would have scheduled Texas Tech for the 2018-19 season, you weren't scheduling a top 25 team. They were not ranked initially. At the end of the year they were 9th. But when you scheduled them, you had no idea...

If you would have scheduled them last year, you were scheduling a top 25 team (12th) but at the end of the year they were unranked...

So what you're asking, scheduling "Top 25 teams" is impossible to know. 

There are some teams you can count on to always be pretty good, but even those (UNC?) can fool you...

Again the reason the SOS was better then was the bottom of the schedule and not the top of it.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, rico said:

You better re-think that a bit.  In 1981 we had Kentucky, at Notre Dame, at North Carolina, Cal, Baylor, at Kansas St., Rutgers, and Clemson.  We lost 4 of those games and 3 of those losses were to teams that were in the Top 10 when we played them.  FWIW, Kansas St. was not(we won) but they made it to the EE that year and fell to the Tar Heels.

Well I say Baylor, KSU, Rutgers and Clemson was just the middle of the pack teams from big conferences which I said he scheduled.  Those schools back then were not what you see today like Baylor.

[dgambill]

All I know is I remember plenty of matchups with UCLA, Kansas, UL, Cincy, St Johns, Notre Dame besides just UK every year...and even the Holiday classic would have one cake walk and usually a highly rates MAC opponent or like W Kentucky who was no cakewalk and sometimes even ranked. We may not have played all those opponents every year but we had a good mixture...but the main thing was...we played a blue blood schedule....kids want to play against the best...they want to play in big games and want to be showcased in big events. We went to Madison Sq garden etc...we need to get back to that if we want to attract kids on a national basis like we could with Knight...and i think we will...but UK is the start of that in my eyes.

[IU Scott]

Just now, dgambill said:

All I know is I remember plenty of matchups with UCLA, Kansas, UL, Cincy, St Johns, Notre Dame besides just UK every year...and even the Holiday classic would have one cake walk and usually a highly rates MAC opponent or like W Kentucky who was no cakewalk and sometimes even ranked. We may not have played all those opponents every year but we had a good mixture...but the main thing was...we played a blue blood schedule....kids want to play against the best...they want to play in big games and want to be showcased in big events. We went to Madison Sq garden etc...we need to get back to that if we want to attract kids on a national basis like we could with Knight...and i think we will...but UK is the start of that in my eyes.

You did but not all in the same season because we had UK and ND and one or maybe two others from that list.

[IU Scott]

2017-18 schedule

at #22 Seton Hall

#1 Duke

at UL

#18 ND at the cross Roads

2018-19

#24 Marquette

at Arkansas

at #3 Duke

UL

Butler at Cross roads

2019-20

#17 FSU

UCONN in New York

Arkansas

ND at Cross Roads

 

 

[macomb hoosier]

I'd prefer the home/away format, but another neutral compromise could be to play both games in Ohio, say Columbus and Cincy (across the river from Lexington). The pitch: both teams showcase in a good recruiting state (OH). Archie keeps the border locked up and Cal doesn't risk losing at home.

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

2017-18 schedule

at #22 Seton Hall

#1 Duke

at UL

#18 ND at the cross Roads

2018-19

#24 Marquette

at Arkansas

at #3 Duke

UL

Butler at Cross roads

2019-20

#17 FSU

UCONN in New York

Arkansas

ND at Cross Roads

 

 

I get it...I’m not saying we need to schedule the conference champion in every power 5 conference...but the only team on that list that draws eyes on a national scale for young kids is Duke...and that wasn’t us scheduling them. That was selected for us. That is why you put a team like UK on the schedule every year...that puts eyes on our program all over the country. There are only a handful of programs that carry that cache...that is the stage we deserve to be on...and one if we want to make our way back to the top need to be on. The game that is right there in front of us...that makes the most sense for all involved is UK. Maybe we can go out and start up a new yearly rivalry but it will never carry the same meaning to either side as us and UK. So in conclusion cut out the sub 200 level games on our schedule and add UK and I’m happy again.

[BGleas]

In terms of the scheduling, what IU did when Bobby Knight was at IU is completely irrelevant. The landscape of college basketball and sports in general have changed so dramatically, it doesn’t really matter. When Knight was at IU there wasn’t efficiency ratings, RPI, Quad rankings, NET, etc., the conferences were so much different, the money was different, neutral court games weren’t as prevalent, TV was completely different, the list goes on and on. 

Archie Miller is working under a completely different set of rules and landscape than Bobby Knight did. 

[dgambill]

Just now, BGleas said:

In terms of the scheduling, what IU did when Bobby Knight was at IU is completely irrelevant. The landscape of college basketball and sports in general have changed so dramatically, it doesn’t really matter. When Knight was at IU there wasn’t efficiency ratings, RPI, Quad rankings, NET, etc., the conferences were so much different, the money was different, neutral court games weren’t as prevalent, TV was completely different, the list goes on and on. 

Archie Miller is working under a completely different set of rules and landscape than Bobby Knight did. 

Good call...but playing in the national spotlight gets you on kids radar. To do that you need to be playing in prime time...national tv against a blue blood and it needs to be a game with some relevance. IU vs UK...that game gets everyone’s attention. If it’s about scheduling to put IU back in the recruiting spotlight, national media spotlight. This gives credence to our programs return, boosts our rankings (lets be real media perception is reality often when it comes to a ranking) and boosts our visability and relevance to recruits. That is where I’m going with this...maybe I’m wrong but to me if I’m AD and I have Archie doing his thing...I am working to get that game scheduled and step up the pace on this turnaround.