2020 College Basketball Off-Season

[go_iu_bb]

27 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

After taxes and paying an agent it is probably closer to 300,000.  Also not talking about an education but just looking at taking the short term money compared to what they might make if they go to school for a few years.  I am talking about kids who might not make it to the NBA and skip college.  Also there can be a long term benefit after college for players who play for 3 or 4 years.  Take Garza at Iowa if he comes back for another year and leads Iowa to a great year, he could be set for.life.

$300k is still more than enough to pay for college. They can also get endorsements to add to that. I've seen that Jalen Green already had a pretty good social media following so he could easily monetize that that. And that's for only 1 season. 

Only a catastrophic injury would keep players that go straight to the G League from having only 1 season of professional basketball, even if they don't make it in the NBA.

Garza is a bad example since he's not expected to be drafted I'd he stays in and it's doubtful even a great run next season unless he corrects the weaknesses that currently have him ranked so low. If he decides to start on the draft (unlikely) and doesn't get drafted (likely if he stays in) then he could still return to school. It's doubtful he'll work his way in to the first round even if he returns.

[FKIM01]

I want to make it clear that I don't fault the kids for taking the money.  I was speaking more to the experience. The G-league doesn't sound like near as much fun as P5 college basketball, especially if you are only practicing and working out.  To me, that's a job...not a beloved profession or game.

[rico]

Here is a piece on Nix...

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/04/28/ucla-commit-daishen-nix-is-headed-to-the-g-league/

[Coach1K]

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/05/04/q-a-former-indiana-forward-collin-hartman-part-one/

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/05/05/q-a-former-indiana-forward-collin-hartman-part-two/

Don't know if anybody has had a chance to read his interview with ITH but he had a lot to say surrounding his freshmen year and the whole thing with Fischer leaving and the way he did it. He also had some interesting things to say about how fans use social media platforms to say negative things about players or even talking to recruits and it was interesting when he said that he almost left the program because of the fan negativity towards him. 

[IU Scott]

9 minutes ago, Coach1K said:

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/05/04/q-a-former-indiana-forward-collin-hartman-part-one/

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/05/05/q-a-former-indiana-forward-collin-hartman-part-two/

Don't know if anybody has had a chance to read his interview with ITH but he had a lot to say surrounding his freshmen year and the whole thing with Fischer leaving and the way he did it. He also had some interesting things to say about how fans use social media platforms to say negative things about players or even talking to recruits and it was interesting when he said that he almost left the program because of the fan negativity towards him. 

We are discussing this on the recruiting board

[FKIM01]

29 minutes ago, Coach1K said:

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/05/04/q-a-former-indiana-forward-collin-hartman-part-one/

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/05/05/q-a-former-indiana-forward-collin-hartman-part-two/

Don't know if anybody has had a chance to read his interview with ITH but he had a lot to say surrounding his freshmen year and the whole thing with Fischer leaving and the way he did it. He also had some interesting things to say about how fans use social media platforms to say negative things about players or even talking to recruits and it was interesting when he said that he almost left the program because of the fan negativity towards him. 

This deserves it's own topic.  Since you brought it, would you like to start it?  I could see a great discussion going a lot of different ways out of it.

[Seeking6]

NCAA just announced they pushed back June 3rd deadline for underclassmen to withdraw from NBA draft. No firm date yet on when. Couple of few teams in Big 10 will have to wait it out longer on if/when kids return. Whole bunch of mess going on right now. 

[IU Scott]

Was bored tonight so I went to YouTube to find a good college basketball game to watch.  Normally if I watch an old game it is always IU game.  Tonight I decided to watch a 1989 sweet 16 game between Michigan and UNC.  That was one of the most entertaining college games I can remember watching.  

Noth teams came in averaging over 90 points a game for the year and both teams sit over 53 percent from the field.  In this game both teams just pushed the ball up the court.after missed and makes.  I don't think there was a possession in the game that had more than 6 passes in a possession.  There was very little dribbling in the half court and the ball was moved by the pass.

The shot clock at the time was 45 seconds and there was not one time the shot clock was ever mentioned.  UNC shot 16 3's and UM shot 24 do it wasn't like they did not use the shot but they did not reply on it either.  The final was 92-87 so it was a high scoring game.

All I here is that offense that was ran back then would work know but my question is why? Today we see teams shoot a lot of 3's and the shot clock is at 30 seconds but scoring is way down.  I just feel if the coaches would give players more freedom and not have to call every offensive set it would help offenses.

[BGleas]

8 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Was bored tonight so I went to YouTube to find a good college basketball game to watch.  Normally if I watch an old game it is always IU game.  Tonight I decided to watch a 1989 sweet 16 game between Michigan and UNC.  That was one of the most entertaining college games I can remember watching.  

Noth teams came in averaging over 90 points a game for the year and both teams sit over 53 percent from the field.  In this game both teams just pushed the ball up the court.after missed and makes.  I don't think there was a possession in the game that had more than 6 passes in a possession.  There was very little dribbling in the half court and the ball was moved by the pass.

The shot clock at the time was 45 seconds and there was not one time the shot clock was ever mentioned.  UNC shot 16 3's and UM shot 24 do it wasn't like they did not use the shot but they did not reply on it either.  The final was 92-87 so it was a high scoring game.

All I here is that offense that was ran back then would work know but my question is why? Today we see teams shoot a lot of 3's and the shot clock is at 30 seconds but scoring is way down.  I just feel if the coaches would give players more freedom and not have to call every offensive set it would help offenses.

I've been watching more old NBA games than college games, but it's the same takeaway. I know you feel strongly about the shot clock but I don't think that's it. I think it's mainly pace. In the 80's teams moved the ball up court much quicker, even after makes. Teams ran fast breaks off of the other teams scoring. They inbounded and took off. Even on dead ball change of possessions, the refs just handed the ball to the other team regardless of whether the team going back on defense was ready or not. 

I'm also not sure when this came into play, I think maybe it was in the 90's, but it seems to me in the 80's if the other team scored the closet guy to the ball grabbed it and inbounded it as fast as he could and they immediately pushed the ball. Now every team has a designated inbounder and that guy is the one who always inbounds the ball off a score. This isn't just IU, but watch IU, Justin Smith is typically the inbounder and there are times he's on the opposite side of the court and out by the 3-pt line or beyond defensively and has to run all the way across the court to get the ball to inbound it. It takes forever and slows everything down. Again, this is every team but in the 80's the nearest guy just grabbed it and you were off. 

There was also less of an obsession with the "perfect shot". Back then, typically if you were open you let it fly. You alluded to this, but in watching game from the 80's, most teams took the first open shot, many times off of 2-3 passes or so. I'm not sure if this part was better or worse. 

I also think defenses have gotten much better and more sophisticated, which also plays a part. 

 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I also think defenses have gotten much better and more sophisticated, which also plays a part. 

And more physical...thank the Detroit "Bad Boys" and the 90s Knicks for that.

In the 60s and 70s, scoring league wide never dipped below 100 points per team per game. Starting in the 95-96 season, it did, and continued that way until the early 2010s... 

[BGleas]

13 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And more physical...thank the Detroit "Bad Boys" and the 90s Knicks for that.

In the 60s and 70s, scoring league wide never dipped below 100 points per team per game. Starting in the 95-96 season, it did, and continued that way until the early 2010s... 

Definitely more physical in the 80's and 90's. Defenses in the 60's and 70's were awful. Watch some of those old Hardwood Classics games on NBATV, back then guys basically just stood around on defense. 

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Definitely more physical in the 80's and 90's. Defenses in the 60's and 70's were awful. Watch some of those old Hardwood Classics games on NBATV, back then guys basically just stood around on defense. 

To be perfectly honest, I liked basketball more when it was less physical. They never call body fouls any more. 

And rules enforcement (palming, travel, 3 seconds) may as well not even be rules.

I know it's the curmudgeon in me coming out, but as I said in the gas thread in the Animal House, hard to shake off all those years of conditioning...

[IU Scott]

41 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I've been watching more old NBA games than college games, but it's the same takeaway. I know you feel strongly about the shot clock but I don't think that's it. I think it's mainly pace. In the 80's teams moved the ball up court much quicker, even after makes. Teams ran fast breaks off of the other teams scoring. They inbounded and took off. Even on dead ball change of possessions, the refs just handed the ball to the other team regardless of whether the team going back on defense was ready or not. 

I'm also not sure when this came into play, I think maybe it was in the 90's, but it seems to me in the 80's if the other team scored the closet guy to the ball grabbed it and inbounded it as fast as he could and they immediately pushed the ball. Now every team has a designated inbounder and that guy is the one who always inbounds the ball off a score. This isn't just IU, but watch IU, Justin Smith is typically the inbounder and there are times he's on the opposite side of the court and out by the 3-pt line or beyond defensively and has to run all the way across the court to get the ball to inbound it. It takes forever and slows everything down. Again, this is every team but in the 80's the nearest guy just grabbed it and you were off. 

There was also less of an obsession with the "perfect shot". Back then, typically if you were open you let it fly. You alluded to this, but in watching game from the 80's, most teams took the first open shot, many times off of 2-3 passes or so. I'm not sure if this part was better or worse. 

I also think defenses have gotten much better and more sophisticated, which also plays a part. 

 

To me the players played with more of a confidence and was more decisive with the ball.  A post player back then would get the ball and knew what he wanted to do with the ball.  Mainly they would get the ball and be ready for a turn around jumper.  Today they get the ball and want to dribble and back down the defender all the way to the basket.

[IUFLA]

What's really ironic is, James Naismith was tasked with inventing a game that could be played indoors during the harsh New England winters, and was told to make it not too rough unlike rugby or lacrosse...

It may not be as physical as those 2 sports, but I'm not sure today's game is what Dr Naismith had in mind either...

[FKIM01]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

What's really ironic is, James Naismith was tasked with inventing a game that could be played indoors during the harsh New England winters, and was told to make it not too rough like rugby or lacrosse...

It may not be as physical as those 2 sports, but I'm not sure today's game is what Dr Naismith had in mind either...

It's been mentioned several times before but yes, I think defenses are allowed to be far too physical and far too many fouls are simply not called.

I'm with you...makes today's game less enjoyable to watch.  If that makes me an old curmudgeon, I'll wear the label with pride.

[Seeking6]

2 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

It's been mentioned several times before but yes, I think defenses are allowed to be far too physical and far too many fouls are simply not called.

I'm with you...makes today's game less enjoyable to watch.  If that makes me an old curmudgeon, I'll wear the label with pride.

Don Fischer mentioned not only on radio interviews but I believe a couple other times this year. Big 10 and the way it's officiated costs us elite recruits year after year. Kids that want to showcase their offensive games head elsewhere because in the Big 10 we sometimes play a little form of tackle hoops.

[5fouls]

22 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Don Fischer mentioned not only on radio interviews but I believe a couple other times this year. Big 10 and the way it's officiated costs us elite recruits year after year. Kids that want to showcase their offensive games head elsewhere because in the Big 10 we sometimes play a little form of tackle hoops.

It would be different if it translated into championships, but the B1G can't even get that done.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

It's been mentioned several times before but yes, I think defenses are allowed to be far too physical and far too many fouls are simply not called.

I'm with you...makes today's game less enjoyable to watch.  If that makes me an old curmudgeon, I'll wear the label with pride.

Amen, just because things change does always mean it is for the better.

[IU Scott]

29 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Don Fischer mentioned not only on radio interviews but I believe a couple other times this year. Big 10 and the way it's officiated costs us elite recruits year after year. Kids that want to showcase their offensive games head elsewhere because in the Big 10 we sometimes play a little form of tackle hoops.

I heard Rabjohn's on the radio say he had been told that by a lot of top recruits.

[Steubenhoosier]

3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Don Fischer mentioned not only on radio interviews but I believe a couple other times this year. Big 10 and the way it's officiated costs us elite recruits year after year. Kids that want to showcase their offensive games head elsewhere because in the Big 10 we sometimes play a little form of tackle hoops.

This unfortunately rears its ugly head come tournament time. Games tend to be called much closer, and B1G teams often take a minute to adapt. 

[IU Scott]

Watching another old game and realized that they use to only 3 TV timeouts per half compared to 4 today.  I don't know if that helps making the game have a better flow to the games

Another difference is that you didn't see players try to drive all the way to the basket like you do today.  Players back then usually pulled up to shoot a short jumper or just pass the ball.  It just seems we see to much guys just starting there drive from outside and put their heads down and charging.

[Seeking6]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:35 PM, Seeking6 said:

Don Fischer mentioned not only on radio interviews but I believe a couple other times this year. Big 10 and the way it's officiated costs us elite recruits year after year. Kids that want to showcase their offensive games head elsewhere because in the Big 10 we sometimes play a little form of tackle hoops.

Harmon's tweets reiterates what we were talking about on here Friday and all season long. Surprised other fan bases don't discuss but style of play is costing us and our conference recruits.

[go_iu_bb]

On 5/15/2020 at 12:35 PM, Seeking6 said:

Don Fischer mentioned not only on radio interviews but I believe a couple other times this year. Big 10 and the way it's officiated costs us elite recruits year after year. Kids that want to showcase their offensive games head elsewhere because in the Big 10 we sometimes play a little form of tackle hoops.

I'm hoping the new commissioner will bring change to how the conference games are officiated but I doubt it happens. Which is unfortunate.

[IU Scott]

24 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

I'm hoping the new commissioner will bring change to how the conference games are officiated but I doubt it happens. Which is unfortunate.

I always thought the NCAA should hire officials as full time employees.  Right now it is like they are independent contractors and they pretty much work 6 games a week. If they were full time employees they could all be under the same umbrella and there would be differences on how officials called a game.

[IU Scott]

Just got done watching the 1989 final four and to me that year is one of the best college basketball seasons I can remember.  One thing that stood out to me is that of the 20 starters only one was a freshman and that was Christian Laettner of Duke.  The other 3 teams never played a freshman during the final four.

What was amazing to me about that year was how good UI and UM was that year but we won the big ten.  To me 89 was probably the best coaching job RMK had.