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2020-21 Starting Lineup Discussion


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48 minutes ago, 3Ballin said:

With everyone playing at 100% and up to their potential, i agree this is our best mix of talent.  If Hunter doesnt improve on where he ended last season tho, im not sure you can take Al out if the starting 5....even tho I do like him in the Vinny Johnson role.

Agree on Hunter. I'm a big Hunter fan, and he did absolutely improve down the stretch last season, but IMO his biggest improvement was mainly that 3's started going in. His confidence grew from 3 and he started making a higher percentage, and don't get me wrong that is great and IU needs that. Absolutely. 

But, for Hunter to take the next step and be a starter on the wing that plays 20+ mpg, he's going to have to expand his offensive game even more. I didn't see a ton of him showing the ability to put the ball on the floor and get to the rim. To play full-time, consistent starter minutes he's going to have to be able to score in a variety of way. I know he can and has it in his game, we just haven't really seen it yet, which is fully understandable. 

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25 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Al, for whatever reason, doesn't get the same level of respect on these Boards. He's like the Rodney Dangerfield of IU ball, lol.

Offensively, he was our 4th leading scorer this past season, and our 3rd returning leading scorer with Green graduating. 

His offensive stats 

9.8 ppg (26 min), 38% from the arc (best on team), 48% 2-pt FG%, 81% FT (best on team not counting Demez due to limited minutes), and 2.5 assists (2nd on team).

His 26 min per game were the 3rd most on the team.

And he's improved every year. 

Al is probably starting. His D is not on the same level, but he's not a defensive liability. He did have 1.9 TO's per game, but so did Rob. 

This all goes to where Hunter is imo. Hunter is that wing we've been lacking -- if fully healthy and conditioned, fully acclimated and with continuing improvement over the summer. He was one of the better players on the team by the end of the season. His upside is very high. But again, Al has been consistently a key scorer and a heavy minutes starting player. It is part of our depth -- depth that always seems to get overrated, but still, that goes to depth and the ability to run who is playing harder on D, who has the hot hand, etc.

I'd also like to add that Al was the 270th ranked recruit, but we forget that because we've needed to count on him so much. I think that he has greatly exceeded expectations. He's also one of the few guys that has showed some grit when push has come to shove. I'm definitely a Fanjami. 

....really, really bad dad joke. I apologize in advance. 

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21 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Al, for whatever reason, doesn't get the same level of respect on these Boards. He's like the Rodney Dangerfield of IU ball, lol.

Offensively, he was our 4th leading scorer this past season, and our 3rd returning leading scorer with Green graduating. 

His offensive stats 

9.8 ppg (26 min), 38% from the arc (best on team), 48% 2-pt FG%, 81% FT (best on team not counting Demez due to limited minutes), and 2.5 assists (2nd on team).

His 26 min per game were the 3rd most on the team.

And he's improved every year. 

Al is probably starting. His D is not on the same level, but he's not a defensive liability. He did have 1.9 TO's per game, but so did Rob. 

This all goes to where Hunter is imo. Hunter is that wing we've been lacking -- if fully healthy and conditioned, fully acclimated and with continuing improvement over the summer. He was one of the better players on the team by the end of the season. His upside is very high. But again, Al has been consistently a key scorer and a heavy minutes starting player. It is part of our depth -- depth that always seems to get overrated, but still, that goes to depth and the ability to run who is playing harder on D, who has the hot hand, etc.

@BGleas, going to respond to you here as well....

There was no disrespect meant at all toward Al.  He has earned, up to this point, the right to start, but I just can't see Lander reclassifying to sit.  The 3 "big"  lineup we played with a lot last year wasn't like putting a saddle on a bronco, it was like cutting one of its legs off.  Things got so clogged up we just couldnt do anything.  So, I like Smith at the 4.  

I just dont think a healthy Rob will sit so that leaves a spot open for, in my mind, Al, Hunter, Franklin or freshman.  In keeping with the get old/stay old theme I wouldnt think one of the other freshman would out everything one of the other 3.  Franklin has been a lot more up and down than Al so I think that rules him out.

So BGleas, to your point, I think with Lander and Rob with the ball, Smith running the baseline and TJD working the paint, Hunter might actually be better served as a 3 n D guy with that group rather than possibly being relied on to be a ball handler/play maker off the bench....which is where Al's strengths are.

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20 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Fun discussions on lineups. One thing for sure. Archie won't be short on options and I could see him using several versions during preseason. Our depth will help us during those stretches of many games and travel in short period of time. 

Right now I think I'm leaning Lander, Rob P, Hunter, Smith, TJD.....but I'm not dead sold on Smith or Hunter...Race could be given a shot. Al/Brunk seem to be confident enough of coming off bench won't phase them. Which leaves Leal, Galloway, Geronimo....fighting for minutes. This team is stacked and I realize as I'm typing I want Lander, Rob P, and TJD starting. After that it's who delivers and earns the run. I mean that's 11 deep. Am I forgetting someone??

Edit-My apologies. Totally spaced one of my favorites for long haul....Armaan. Damn the depth we have. 

This team is insanely deep! If we have a season it should be a fun one! Like someone else said this is the “leap” year for Archie and IU. Love the roster we got! Tons of options.

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Looking at the roster, I think the loss of De'Ron, means Justin plays primarily at the 4. With TJD, Brunk, Race and Smith are only "bigs", and a lot of quality depth on the wings, it seems logical that TJD and Brunk split minutes at one spot and Smith and Race sharing the other front court spot.  If you try and start Brunk with TJD and Smith, there is no depth. With a smaller 4, you will want a wing that can rebound. Maybe that's where Geronimo gets some minutes?

A combination of Rob, Lander, Franklin and Durham fill in the first 2 guard spots nicely. 

Then Hunter, Leal, Galloway and Geronimo on the wing. 

I see-

Lander / Franklin

Phinisee / Durham

Hunter/ mix of Leal, Galloway, Geronimo depending on matchups, perf in practice, etc

Smith / Thompson

TJD / Brunk

Makes the most sense, IMO,  looking at all the variables. Puts talent and experience on the floor. 

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14 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

For anybody more familiar with their games, who do you think sees the most minutes as a freshman? Galloway, Leal or Geronimo? 

I think all 3 get minutes based upon whether we need 3 point shooting and or defense, athleticism, rebounding, etc on the court at any one time. I'm sure we'll get a better feel  for who is leading the bunch once practices hit.

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So here's what we had minutes wise per game last year...

TJD-29

Devonte-22

Justin-30

Al-26

Rob-23

Joey-20

Jerome-14

Armaan-14

Race-14

Damezi-12

De'Ron-9

That adds up to 213 minutes per game. There are only 200 per game available. So scratch Damezi's time to get to 200.

So we have 31 minutes a game to make up for. I think TJD, Justin, and Al stay about at the minutes they had last year. I think Joey's numbers go down a bit to around 15. So that gets us to 36. Say Rob gets another 3 per, and Jerome, Armaan, and Race add 5 minutes per each. That fills 21 of the minutes lost. If the ranking mean anything, I would expect Lander to gobble up the 18 or so remaining.

That's a basic 8 man rotation. 

Archie went with a pretty long bench at the beginning of last year, and it got shorter as our competition increased. I can see Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo getting some minutes in the pre-conference games, but unless one of them has a real breakout, I think minutes will be hard to come by for those 3 when the B10 season starts, unless one of them consistently outplays Armaan in practice...

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I thought last season would be the first chance for Archie to let practice and in-game play determine who was on the court. It never panned out due to injuries and inability to score. Perhaps this season you will see a faster hook for bad mistakes and more playing time for those producing in practice. Last season he did send DG to the bench for stretches when he was off, but there were times he really had no choice but to play him when the rest of the team clearly couldn't buy a basket.

One possibility to get more guys in the game is more on the ball pressure and a lot more 3/4 court pressure. He only had three guards to work with last season and couldn't use it much for fear of foul trouble and having nothing left in the tank at the end of games. That's would not appear to be the case this season. Depending on how many show they can handle their assignments, he can rotate in waves.

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3 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Al, for whatever reason, doesn't get the same level of respect on these Boards. He's like the Rodney Dangerfield of IU ball, lol.

Offensively, he was our 4th leading scorer this past season, and our 3rd returning leading scorer with Green graduating. 

His offensive stats 

9.8 ppg (26 min), 38% from the arc (best on team), 48% 2-pt FG%, 81% FT (best on team not counting Demez due to limited minutes), and 2.5 assists (2nd on team).

His 26 min per game were the 3rd most on the team.

And he's improved every year. 

Al is probably starting. His D is not on the same level, but he's not a defensive liability. He did have 1.9 TO's per game, but so did Rob. 

This all goes to where Hunter is imo. Hunter is that wing we've been lacking -- if fully healthy and conditioned, fully acclimated and with continuing improvement over the summer. He was one of the better players on the team by the end of the season. His upside is very high. But again, Al has been consistently a key scorer and a heavy minutes starting player. It is part of our depth -- depth that always seems to get overrated, but still, that goes to depth and the ability to run who is playing harder on D, who has the hot hand, etc.

I agree with you. I think Al is a definite starter at the beginning of the season. He's the best shooter on the team and has a ton of experience.

A lot of people on here have Hunter as a starter. Unless he makes a huge improvement during the offseason, I don't think he starts early on. I think Al, TJD and Smith are all sure starters.

I think due to his skill, Lander will start. This one I'm not as confident in as the three above but I really think he will. 

So I think the starting lineup will be one of two at the beginning of the season, 1 very similar to last season:

Brunk

TJD

Smith

Durham

Lander

Or maybe a smaller lineup:

TJD

Smith

Durham

Phinisee

Lander

I know Rob's shooting numbers weren't good overall last season, but from what I recall is that when he was in a catch and shoot situation he looked pretty good. I don't have concrete numbers to back that but it seemed he made a good percentage that was the situation. The problem was that the team wasn't good at creating those types of shots. My hope is that Lander will fix that and Rob and Al will both see their shooting percentages increase because of it. Part of the problem, though, may be that Rob isn't good at getting set up in a position to receive passes for those shots because Hunter seemed to get more of them.

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1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

So here's what we had minutes wise per game last year...

TJD-29

Devonte-22

Justin-30

Al-26

Rob-23

Joey-20

Jerome-14

Armaan-14

Race-14

Damezi-12

De'Ron-9

That adds up to 213 minutes per game. There are only 200 per game available. So scratch Damezi's time to get to 200.

So we have 31 minutes a game to make up for. I think TJD, Justin, and Al stay about at the minutes they had last year. I think Joey's numbers go down a bit to around 15. So that gets us to 36. Say Rob gets another 3 per, and Jerome, Armaan, and Race add 5 minutes per each. That fills 21 of the minutes lost. If the ranking mean anything, I would expect Lander to gobble up the 18 or so remaining.

That's a basic 8 man rotation. 

Archie went with a pretty long bench at the beginning of last year, and it got shorter as our competition increased. I can see Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo getting some minutes in the pre-conference games, but unless one of them has a real breakout, I think minutes will be hard to come by for those 3 when the B10 season starts, unless one of them consistently outplays Armaan in practice...

Yes, I don't see the freshmen other than Lander getting big minutes next season. I'm kind of hoping that one of them will get redshirted for that reason. I expect you're correct that they'll see time early then that will diminish as the season goes on. At least against the cupcakes, they will. That has been Miller's tendency so far. Fewer chances for that this season since the pre-conference looks tougher than the past few years.

The upperclassmen and TJD will continue to get the majority of PT with Lander also playing a not insignificant number of minutes.

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6 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Figure this was as good a place as any to put this. Happy to hear this. Hopefully the guys can get in the gym in June and get started on that development we’ve been discussing.  

Yep. Hopefully the guys are able to return to Btown it they aren’t there already. Leal, Trey and Lander should be able to workout with the team if they can’t get their own housing.  Heck maybe Geronimo can crash with Leal. 

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28 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Figure this was as good a place as any to put this. Happy to hear this. Hopefully the guys can get in the gym in June and get started on that development we’ve been discussing.  

Posted this in Corona thread but wasn't sure where to put. Glad this is happening. I'd rather the kids be on campus with access to some of the best healthcare they can find.....if the need arises. 

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2 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

so in light of Smith moving on... shall we revisit this thread?  i say Lander and TJD no brainers.  then i say RP and Al.  small lineup.  so who plays the 4 or 5 alongside TJD?  Brunk?  Thompson?  we don't want Hunter as a 4.  

I thought from the beginning that TJD, Brunk, RP, and Al would start...

We can't afford to use Race in Smith's spot due to depth. So we either put it on Jerome Hunter, or go small and start Lander.

Either way Smith's transfer hurts on the defensive end and in rebounding.

And more minutes just opened up for Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo...

 

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12 minutes ago, btownqb said:

As of now it hurts some. Couple guys step up we won't miss him at all. 

...and I hope they do.  I'm concerned losing a senior with some skills, but for certain, there are minutes there to be earned.  I hope this is the year Jerome Hunter flips the switch on both sides of the ball.  I feel like he has the most untapped potential and it's time he shows it.

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9 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

...and I hope they do.  I'm concerned losing a senior with some skills, but for certain, there are minutes there to be earned.  I hope this is the year Jerome Hunter flips the switch on both sides of the ball.  I feel like he has the most untapped potential and it's time he shows it.

I expect we'll see continued growth and probably a significant leap from Hunter. The defensive side of the ball / defensive awareness has been the area he most needs to grow. But he's strong, quick, including laterally, and showed progress.

It's also, obviously, the case that he came in after missing an entire year of any kind of basketball -- and by year end was one of our better players. 

This summer has been wacky with COVID, but with bball programs resuming in June, he's going to have this summer as well. He's going to be good.

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I think everyone is sleeping on Armaan Franklin. The kid showed flashes as a freshman and is a prototypical 2/wing in college. If he can develop some consistency with his shooting, he could be a real weapon. He plays hard, isn't afraid to push the ball in transition, can attack the basket, is athletic, etc. He just need confidence, experience and to gain consistency with his shot. 

I could see a scenario where he's one of the surprise players next year and even works his way into the starting lineup. 

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