The NCAA cracks down on....

[FW_Hoosier]

College basketball fans arguing about whose coach is dirty cracks me up... Every fanbase will defend their guy to the death while ripping other coaches for the exact same things.  Hilarious exercise in rationalization and hypocrisy.

Let’s all get along here guys... There’s no such thing as a “clean” Power 5 program.  All these coaches know the game and how to maintain plausible deniability.

[BruceDouglas]

On 5/23/2020 at 6:24 PM, Seeking6 said:

Dense? Have a good one. Hard to have conversation with someone that says that. I noticed you didn't bring up KState. Good luck with Underwood. I keep trying to tell folks on here. Some of these guys from other schools try to act nice but will turn on a dime. You seem to fit that profile.

Yes, dense. Because you referred to "troubles with the NCAA" and those had nothing to do with Underwood. It was a clerical screwup that affected the eligibility of over 80 athletes in 9 different sports over a 10 year period. Don't know if this is just due to not reading or not understanding, but there you have it.

And no I didn't bring up KSU, you did. But again, there's nothing there but your wishful thinking.

On 5/23/2020 at 6:25 PM, IU Scott said:

Whatever you want to believe to make you happy.  When there is this much smoke there is usually fire.  So you don't think he knew what his assistant coach was doing at OSU.  Also Cal never got into trouble at UMASS and Memphis but do you truly believe he had no clue that things were going on.

He may have known, I don't know. The testimony at the trials said they specifically kept this stuff from the head coaches. Should he have known? Again, maybe. 

22 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Yes. I did. I can't help it if you are too lazy or unwilling to look it up.

By the way... are you telling me that you are not aware of the Grand Jury inquiry, into Brad Underwood before he left for Illinois ?  Seeking his e-mail,  text mail, cell phone records, and social media messages regarding NCAA violations.

Hint.... it was reported in a major Illinois newspaper, shortly after Underwood left OSU for Illinois.

I'm not unwilling or lazy. I've asked for info on these violations you say Underwood committed and you've provided nothing. So again, I'll note that's because there isn't anything.

Yes, there was a grand jury inquiry at OSU regarding the activities of Evans as part of the FBI investigation. Are you saying that's what you were referring to on these alleged violations? Because he wasn't under investigation and was cleared of any involvement. Same with the staff at S Carolina when he worked there.

[Seeking6]

1 hour ago, BruceDouglas said:

Yes, dense. Because you referred to "troubles with the NCAA" and those had nothing to do with Underwood. It was a clerical screwup that affected the eligibility of over 80 athletes in 9 different sports over a 10 year period. Don't know if this is just due to not reading or not understanding, but there you have it.

And no I didn't bring up KSU, you did. But again, there's nothing there but your wishful thinking.

He may have known, I don't know. The testimony at the trials said they specifically kept this stuff from the head coaches. Should he have known? Again, maybe. 

I'm not unwilling or lazy. I've asked for info on these violations you say Underwood committed and you've provided nothing. So again, I'll note that's because there isn't anything.

Yes, there was a grand jury inquiry at OSU regarding the activities of Evans as part of the FBI investigation. Are you saying that's what you were referring to on these alleged violations? Because he wasn't under investigation and was cleared of any involvement. Same with the staff at S Carolina when he worked there.

I'll just say this. TeamworkOrange has been reincarnated. Next level of obtuse thinking/thought and deflection going on here. My apologies to the board. Shouldn't entertain this stuff anymore. 

His posts include the following. Clerical screw up. There you have it. Wishful thinking. I don't know. There isn't anything. Yes...there was a grand jury. 

No words needed anymore. You've posted as well as you could. Thanks!

 

 

[milehiiu]

Not only did the NCAA investigate into violations at Oklahoma State when Underwood was there, after he left for Illinois.  Even, the University of Illinois conducted an investigation into Underwood. For how he treated his own players.

Review on Illinois' Underwood Raises Questions - Athletic Business

He was exonerated. Which tells me one thing. WIth rare exceptions.... NEVER have a University conduct an independent investigation.

There's a reason why five players transferred out of Underwood's first season at Illinois. And two more, his second year.

 

[milehiiu]

19 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I'll just say this. TeamworkOrange has been reincarnated. Next level of obtuse thinking/thought and deflection going on here. My apologies to the board. Shouldn't entertain this stuff anymore. 

His posts include the following. Clerical screw up. There you have it. Wishful thinking. I don't know. There isn't anything. Yes...there was a grand jury. 

No words needed anymore. You've posted as well as you could. Thanks!

 

 

I do remember TeamworkOrange.  Yep Grand Jury's don't get called for nothing.  And as I just posted above.  Illinois absolves Underwood of player abuse. All the while 7 players transfer out of his program in his first two years ?

[mrflynn03]

My wife is from central Illinois about 35 mins from Champaign, so unfortunately I have spent a considerable amount of time in the area, and have concluded the most oblivious douchebag fanbase that exists in the big ten are, I'm talking old Big 10 because rutger and Maryland dont belong, are Illinois fans. That is all. 

[BruceDouglas]

On 5/24/2020 at 10:09 PM, Seeking6 said:

I'll just say this. TeamworkOrange has been reincarnated. Next level of obtuse thinking/thought and deflection going on here. My apologies to the board. Shouldn't entertain this stuff anymore. 

His posts include the following. Clerical screw up. There you have it. Wishful thinking. I don't know. There isn't anything. Yes...there was a grand jury. 

No words needed anymore. You've posted as well as you could. Thanks!

 

 

Yes, the violations at SFA were for incorrectly tracking the course credits for player eligibility. You seem to be confusing that with Oklahoma State. Reading can be difficult, apparently.

On 5/24/2020 at 10:28 PM, milehiiu said:

Not only did the NCAA investigate into violations at Oklahoma State when Underwood was there, after he left for Illinois.  Even, the University of Illinois conducted an investigation into Underwood. For how he treated his own players.

Review on Illinois' Underwood Raises Questions - Athletic Business

He was exonerated. Which tells me one thing. WIth rare exceptions.... NEVER have a University conduct an independent investigation.

There's a reason why five players transferred out of Underwood's first season at Illinois. And two more, his second year.

 

So again, your claim that Underwood committed violations just like Sampson is false then?

And Archie's had what, 5 transfer out? It happens everywhere, 800+ in the portal every season.

[rico]

I think we should be more concerned about getting our house in order before talking/lashing out about others' houses.

[BruceDouglas]

10 minutes ago, Sark said:

What’s the reason those players transferred out of Illinois?

Like most transfers, they all had their own reasons.

DJ Williams and Coleman-Lands were Groce commits and didn't want to play for Underwood. Williams simply wasn't very good and JCL hasn't progressed beyond being a mediocre spot up shooter. Mark Smith wanted to be a PG but he's also a spot up shooter, left to play that role at Mizzou. Also didn't like to get yelled at by Underwood. 

Vessel and Eboigbodin were late adds to fill open scholarships, they left to find playing time at places more suited to their skills.

Mike Finke didn't want to play a backup role at Illinois so grad transferred to Grand Canyon where he could play more minutes. His younger brother was also on the team there but has since transferred back to the midwest.

[FKIM01]

1 hour ago, rico said:

I think we should be more concerned about getting our house in order before talking/lashing out about others' houses.

Did I miss something?  Aside from having an idiot as a president, what's out of order at IU right now?  Something specific to basketball?

[IowaHoosierFan]

well this thread has been interesting.

[Colonialcrester]

I don't do this often but I am throwing out a warning. Bruce stops by here and traditionally has been a decent guy.  I am going to blame calling members dense on Covid-19.

Don't come on our board and insult us. If this was anyone other than Underwood you would have questions (and strong suspicions) too.

Please remember where you are at.

Thanks!

[BruceDouglas]

3 hours ago, Colonialcrester said:

I don't do this often but I am throwing out a warning. Bruce stops by here and traditionally has been a decent guy.  I am going to blame calling members dense on Covid-19.

Don't come on our board and insult us. If this was anyone other than Underwood you would have questions (and strong suspicions) too.

Please remember where you are at.

Thanks!

Sorry, wasn't meaning to offend but really couldn't think of any other term to use. I guess my expectations that people will actually read and comprehend articles is misguided these days.

And no, I wouldn't have suspicions about another coach for this type of incident that was clearly at the athletic dept level.

[milehiiu]

1 hour ago, BruceDouglas said:

Sorry, wasn't meaning to offend but really couldn't think of any other term to use. I guess my expectations that people will actually read and comprehend articles is misguided these days.

And no, I wouldn't have suspicions about another coach for this type of incident that was clearly at the athletic dept level.

Hey Bruce. You are my favorite Illini poster on HSN.  Glad to have you as a member.

And I have no problem with you defending your HC.  That's what a fan should do.

Take care during this pandemic.  And stay safe.  Hope we have you around for civil debates. For years to come. As we have had our favorite Boiler fan.

[Seeking6]

4 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Did I miss something?  Aside from having an idiot as a president, what's out of order at IU right now?  Something specific to basketball?

That's what I'm curious about as well.....

[Seeking6]

4 hours ago, Colonialcrester said:

I don't do this often but I am throwing out a warning. Bruce stops by here and traditionally has been a decent guy.  I am going to blame calling members dense on Covid-19.

Don't come on our board and insult us. If this was anyone other than Underwood you would have questions (and strong suspicions) too.

Please remember where you are at.

Thanks!

Amen. Historically has been a good poster...until recently. He's taken a few shots and guess I'm a tad surprised at some defending those shots. Oh well. 

[Seeking6]

1 hour ago, BruceDouglas said:

Sorry, wasn't meaning to offend but really couldn't think of any other term to use. I guess my expectations that people will actually read and comprehend articles is misguided these days.

And no, I wouldn't have suspicions about another coach for this type of incident that was clearly at the athletic dept level.

So you go from dense to I guess my expectations that people  will actually read and comprehend.....not real genuine in my book. 

[milehiiu]

2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Amen. Historically has been a good poster...until recently. He's taken a few shots and guess I'm a tad surprised at some defending those shots. Oh well. 

Shots were primarily at me. And CC has been very supportive of me for over a decade now.  Which I greatly appreciate.  And will always appreciate.  On the flip side.  As you said Bruce has historically been a good poster.  Just as I did with Boiler, early on.  Kept the door open.  No reason not to do the same for Bruce, IMHO.  Actually looking forward to the future, in what he can bring to the board.... just like Boiler has for so long.

Turn the other cheek.

[BruceDouglas]

2 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

So you go from dense to I guess my expectations that people  will actually read and comprehend.....not real genuine in my book. 

Oh, it's genuine I assure you.

[BruceDouglas]

2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Hey Bruce. You are my favorite Illini poster on HSN.  Glad to have you as a member.

And I have no problem with you defending your HC.  That's what a fan should do.

Take care during this pandemic.  And stay safe.  Hope we have you around for civil debates. For years to come. As we have had our favorite Boiler fan.

Well thanks. I really wasn't intending to "defend" anything, just trying to understand the perception of the allegations. Obviously just too much partisanship on both sides so I'll move on.

[rico]

18 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Did I miss something?  Aside from having an idiot as a president, what's out of order at IU right now?  Something specific to basketball?

Relevancy, my friend, relevancy.

[dgambill]

On 5/23/2020 at 10:03 PM, FW_Hoosier said:

College basketball fans arguing about whose coach is dirty cracks me up... Every fanbase will defend their guy to the death while ripping other coaches for the exact same things.  Hilarious exercise in rationalization and hypocrisy.

Let’s all get along here guys... There’s no such thing as a “clean” Power 5 program.  All these coaches know the game and how to maintain plausible deniability.

Only the really dumb or desperate ones get involved directly. I’d also say though some of the really big ones though have the hubris to believe they are above the rules though. In general I think most colleges live on the right side of the track but occasionally will step into a grey area from time to time either accidentally or have an assistant trying to move up the coaching levels by making a name for himself or have a booster get out of line. However there are those universities that live in the grey area and thus sometimes actually go off the deep end of infractions because they are so far lost from what is acceptable or have gotten away with so much. Living a good part of my life now in SEC country...especially with football it’s such a different mentality...they just play by a different set of rules. I mean it’s like meeting people from different countries in the world that have lived in such corrupt govts. I see it in the business world all the time...think that a bribe is normal operation...misreporting taxes etc etc because that’s how you have to do it to exist in a corrupt system. SEC football is that...and a few basketball programs.

My wife also grew up in Illinois...and I’m very familiar with how corrupt the state is especially in Chicago but I wouldn’t characterize the whole state that way. As for Underwood...I don’t really care honestly. Even if there is something smelly every where he goes he doesn’t really move the needle for me as a coach that I would fear even with superior talent. I don’t see him being a long term answer there. Plenty of basketball talent in that state but he isn’t even landing his share of the top talent. I know our program has a ways to go but Archie has built a foundation and I think we are going to build off it. I just don’t see a foundation or core of kids built over there to get excited about. Just doesn’t seem to be a plan.

[rico]

17 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Only the really dumb or desperate ones get involved directly. I’d also say though some of the really big ones though have the hubris to believe they are above the rules though. In general I think most colleges live on the right side of the track but occasionally will step into a grey area from time to time either accidentally or have an assistant trying to move up the coaching levels by making a name for himself or have a booster get out of line. However there are those universities that live in the grey area and thus sometimes actually go off the deep end of infractions because they are so far lost from what is acceptable or have gotten away with so much. Living a good part of my life now in SEC country...especially with football it’s such a different mentality...they just play by a different set of rules. I mean it’s like meeting people from different countries in the world that have lived in such corrupt govts. I see it in the business world all the time...think that a bribe is normal operation...misreporting taxes etc etc because that’s how you have to do it to exist in a corrupt system. SEC football is that...and a few basketball programs.

My wife also grew up in Illinois...and I’m very familiar with how corrupt the state is especially in Chicago but I wouldn’t characterize the whole state that way. As for Underwood...I don’t really care honestly. Even if there is something smelly every where he goes he doesn’t really move the needle for me as a coach that I would fear even with superior talent. I don’t see him being a long term answer there. Plenty of basketball talent in that state but he isn’t even landing his share of the top talent. I know our program has a ways to go but Archie has built a foundation and I think we are going to build off it. I just don’t see a foundation or core of kids built over there to get excited about. Just doesn’t seem to be a plan.

Illinois' problem has been, is, and will continue to be landing kids from the Chicagoland area.

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, rico said:

Illinois' problem has been, is, and will continue to be landing kids from the Chicagoland area.

Do you think that is because it’s such a big city it’s kids want to be on a national stage (ie Duke, UNC, Kansas, UK) or is it the corruption issues where they want to get paid? If they have a hand out and Illinois isnt landing Them then that should suggest they aren’t cheating. Or maybe it’s just a style of ball that those kids want to showcase their game and it doesn’t mesh. It is confusing...I suppose Chicago is like its own separate world...it isn’t like the rest of the state at all...so kids from there don’t identify with being from Illinois...they are from Chicago...where as even our Indy kids identify with Indiana.

[cosmicpowers]

16 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Hey Bruce. You are my favorite Illini poster on HSN.  Glad to have you as a member.

And I have no problem with you defending your HC.  That's what a fan should do.

Take care during this pandemic.  And stay safe.  Hope we have you around for civil debates. For years to come. As we have had our favorite Boiler fan.

Hah, just kidding, I'm 100% lurker these days.