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Justin Smith transferring


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3 minutes ago, DWB said:

I guess I'm coming a this from a different perspective...

What's done is done. Smith's made the decision to transfer. We aren't going to change that (not that any of us are trying to) but the diversity of opinions as to why he's transferring makes up the majority of this thread. Frankly, the "why" is irrelevant at this point IMO. He's gone. Good luck to him, and congrats on a BS degree in 3 years.

So what's next ? Very little talk of Armaan in this thread. Yes, he's a guard, but he lead the team in charges, mostly under the basket. That tells me, that he played a lot of "3" defensively when it mattered. The guys is built like a brick outhouse, and has proven he can shoot at least as good as anybody else on the team, other than Al, from 3 pt land. I think he makes a huge jump this coming year. Same with Hunter, IF...he stays healthy, and doesn't have physical restrictions. Race will take up right where he left off at the end of the year, and get better as the year goes on. And then there's TJD...we all know the upside for him.

The other person essentially ignored here is Galloway. Yes, he's a Freshman, but supposedly is committed to defense like Geronimo. He could be a ringer as a freshman. Wasn't he a leading candidate for Mr Basketball, along with Leal?

With Archie's philosophy that guards his first priority, I could easily see 3, and sometimes a 4 guard line up at times. We certainly have the depth at that position now. I also think the offense gets more diversified.

 

Completely agree on Franklin. I posted in the lineup thread that people are sleeping on him. I could see him earning a starting spot and making a leap next season. The kids plays both ways, pushed the ball well in transition, is a solid, solid defender and will be excellent if he can find some consistency from the perimeter. 

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3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

 

I included my first post on the subject because to me, it was saying exactly what you had bolded in my last post...

He was never going to get "green lighted" by Archie to get to Joe Wieskamp or Isaiah Livers numbers on 3 point shots...not last year, and not this year...

And I think that's what he wanted...you know and I know he's not a good perimeter shooter... unfortunately players are sometimes the last to admit their shortcomings...

Like I said, I think we’re saying the same thing, just from different angles. I thought you were blaming Archie for that or insinuating that Archie is holding him back.

It would be insane to give Smith a green light from the perimeter. If he wants that he’s going to have to go to a low major school. Obviously he’s not a low major player, but that’s where he’d need to go to be the offensive focal point of a team. 

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5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Last years team and this years team are two different teams. Last years team had a huge deficiency on the wing. Hunter wasn’t ready and had just missed a full year, Franklin was ready and the team in general couldn’t really go small because we lacked depth and had injuries in the backcourt. Smith almost had to play a lot. 

But as @KoB2011 said, down the stretch as Hunter got more comfortable and Race got healthy, the best lineup in the front court was Hunter, Race and TJD and that group got more and more minutes. 

Next year, IU doesn’t have those issues. The depth at the guard/wing is much deeper so Smith’s minutes would have gone down or at least been moved to the 4. 

It’s a net gain because Smith is a one-way, limited player. Archie is brining up multi-dimensional players that play both ways. Stop trying to spin people’s thoughts on Smith into some backdoor commentary on Archie. 

Your working on the basis that two guys who have been injury prone will stop being injury prone. Yes our starting lineup and regular rotation might be fine but we are an injury away from yet again depending on a non 5 star freshmen.  Successful programs don’t put themselves in the position. 

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Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Your working on the basis that two guys who have been injury prone will stop being injury prone. Yes our starting lineup and regular rotation might be fine but we are an injury away from yet again depending on a non 5 star freshmen.  Successful programs don’t put themselves in the position. 

I’m working on the basis that Hunter will be better, Franklin will be better and Race will be better. I’m also working on the basis that Lander can play and Phinisee will be better. 

I’m also working on the basis that Hunter and Thompson were already taking minutes from Smith and Brunk towards the end of last season. Hunter’s condition and Thompson’s Injuries were both freak things, so no I don’t expect them to be out again or consider them injury prone. 

I prefer multi-skilled players that can play both ends and play hard consistently, so yes I think we’re fine. 

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14 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Your working on the basis that two guys who have been injury prone will stop being injury prone. Yes our starting lineup and regular rotation might be fine but we are an injury away from yet again depending on a non 5 star freshmen.  Successful programs don’t put themselves in the position. 

I wouldn't say that Hunter had been injury prone. While the injury/condition he missed time because was significant, it's still only 1 and didn't seem to cause him to miss more time last season. As he became more comfortable and less rusty, his play improved. He played in all but 2 games last season. He'll also have this whole off-season in which to work on his strength, conditioning, and basketball skills rather than just trying to rehab to get to the point where he can practice and play. It could result in a significant change to his play next season.

Thompson could certainly be looked at as injury prone. But even then he missed only 3 games last season.

Phinisee is another I'd say that had been prone to injury so far. 

Hopefully, all 3 will be able to stay healthy.

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21 minutes ago, btroesch14 said:

Can anybody confirm this. Seems pretty interesting and believable. 

BE856C72-D022-4427-9012-6687C7B39AC9.png

Regardless of whether or not this is true - Justin Smith was always about Justin Smith - whether it was him turning his back on Archie, his lackadaisical trots up the floor or transferring because Archie would not sacrifice wins so he could highlight his inability to shoot 3s and dribble. We could all see it. That’s why people aren’t upset about losing him. I’ll roll with our 11 guys.

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3 hours ago, addictedtoIU said:

I'm late to the party but read all posts. Lots of good points. IMO, we'll be fine. Smith leaving would be a big opportunity for Thompson. TJD-Thompson combo on the low block can be a pleasure to watch. Hunter seems to be an obvious choice at the 3 because he got developing skills and shooting. Or Al starts at the wing position (3 guard lineup) with Phinisee-Lander and CAM uses Hunter to back up 3 or 4 spots (more so at 3 spot). Bright side is we won't have to deal with Edward Smith. When team's struggling in mid season, he's gonna drop a bomb on social media implying his son is not utilized the right way. Lot of us talked about his defense, but offensively he was very limited. And as a 3-year starter, he couldn't develop go to moves or improve his shooting enough for CAM to at least consider him at the 3. This is a pure speculation on my end, but was he a positive force in the locker room as an older kid? I have my doubt about that. I wouldn't say we'd be better off without him, but it's simply 'next man up'. We'll miss him and his contributions in certain areas, but at the same time, other kids would fill the void or we may think other kids taking Smith's minutes do admirable jobs. 

Amen! Great post and agree 100%

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1 hour ago, StLHoosier said:

For those supporting Justin Smith, did you guys watch any of the games last year?  He can’t shoot, he can’t dribble, and he isn’t a good passer.  I’m sorry, but if you can’t do those things, you’re just not a good basketball player. He was a decent on ball defender, but was a very poor off ball defender like @BGleas alluded to.  Even with being a decent defender, there’s not one time last year where I thought he really locked a guy up, and I’d argue that RP is our best defender.  

Just because people don’t like JS’s game, doesn’t mean they’re bashing him as a person. They’re just being realistic with what they’re seeing and what he’s proven to be during his time here.  Grading him as a person and a basketball player are not one in the same.  After all, the kid came here to play basketball and should be graded on that.

In terms of next years team, we will be fine.  This will free up the offense imo and we should see an improvement on that front.  You’re going to play Brunk and TJD together quite a bit, and we sorely need someone to be able to knock down outside shots when they demand double teams.  JS just couldn’t do that and teams knew it, hence them not even closing out on him.  I believe Hunter and other guys will fill that role this year.  Hunter started to show that towards the end of the year last year, but you could tell he was still working his way back after being out for so long.  

 

Hey STLHoosier, not trying to derail the thread but I’m a Hoosier living in SW Stl! Good to see others in STL :)

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1 hour ago, StLHoosier said:

For those supporting Justin Smith, did you guys watch any of the games last year?  He can’t shoot, he can’t dribble, and he isn’t a good passer.  I’m sorry, but if you can’t do those things, you’re just not a good basketball player. He was a decent on ball defender, but was a very poor off ball defender like @BGleas alluded to.  Even with being a decent defender, there’s not one time last year where I thought he really locked a guy up, and I’d argue that RP is our best defender.  

Just because people don’t like JS’s game, doesn’t mean they’re bashing him as a person. They’re just being realistic with what they’re seeing and what he’s proven to be during his time here.  Grading him as a person and a basketball player are not one in the same.  After all, the kid came here to play basketball and should be graded on that.

In terms of next years team, we will be fine.  This will free up the offense imo and we should see an improvement on that front.  You’re going to play Brunk and TJD together quite a bit, and we sorely need someone to be able to knock down outside shots when they demand double teams.  JS just couldn’t do that and teams knew it, hence them not even closing out on him.  I believe Hunter and other guys will fill that role this year.  Hunter started to show that towards the end of the year last year, but you could tell he was still working his way back after being out for so long.  

 

I guess Archi did not watch any games last year either since he played Smith more minutes than anyone.  I am not saying this season ill now be a disaster but this really hurts our frontcourt depth.  If we have injuries' or foul trouble or someone just has an off game we now don't have the depth to make up for it.

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2 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

I'll guess UK.

 

1 hour ago, DC2345 said:

Not a chance! Cal is smarter than that.

 

1 hour ago, jv1972iu said:

Huh??

It was said just a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but I could see it.  He's only there for one year and Cal is always short on experience so if Cal has open scholarships, nothing would surprise me.  I mean hey...he was chasing Matt Harms and It's not like Harms is considered a marquee player.

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1 hour ago, btroesch14 said:

Can anybody confirm this. Seems pretty interesting and believable. 

BE856C72-D022-4427-9012-6687C7B39AC9.png

Exactly, the writing was on the wall for both parties.  Yes, he got playing time.  He had some good games....he was never a Miller guy, and Miller had Hunter been 100%, roles would of shifted.  

It is best to part ways and he has a degree from IU and under the rules will use the grad transfer route.  This has been in the works for some time, odd man out.  Too many good forwards, glue guys coming in.  There will be a new personality on the team next year.

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5 hours ago, btroesch14 said:

I don’t get why Justin can’t just shoot mid range and 3 pointers for 3 hours a day in the summer. He could work on dribbling and footwork for another 1 hour a day in the summer. This dude has had all the opportunities in the world the past 3 years to get a consistent jumpshot. Just look at Victor Oladipo, he didn’t whine about playing time and he didn’t whine about being showcased in the offense more. Victor came in as a 3 star recruit and just outworked everyone and that’s why he was selected the #2 in the 2013 draft. 

Do you have any idea what Smith has worked on over the past few summers? Since he seemingly wants to be a three I would guess that he has worked on his handle, footwork, jumper, etc. Oladipo is often misused as an example. Was he a three star? Yes. Did he work hard? Yes. But he had a ton of natural athletic ability that was not visible to the recruiting services. To imply that others would be drafted second, or in the lottery, if they would simply  “work harder” is just not accurate. 

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2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I’m also working on the basis that Hunter and Thompson were already taking minutes from Smith and Brunk towards the end of last season. 

Smith averaged 30.4 minutes a game last year. In the last 5 he averaged 29.8. He wasn’t losing minutes to Hunter and Thompson and for all of our discussions about his attitude, Archie wanting to get rid of him, his dad, etc etc he seemingly always started the first and second (no matter what) half. It will be fun/interesting to see what Race and Hunter do. I expected Race to be tough on the boards but some of his offensive play/footwork etc positively surprised me. Hunter looked like he “belongs”, and his three point shot came around, but he had 5+ minute passive stretches where he was invisible (I say that in the context of knowing he was out for a year and that could dramatically change next year). 

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