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On 5/23/2020 at 5:56 PM, IU Scott said:

Saw where Iowa St got Coleman-Land as a grad transfer

Living near Ames, I follow Iowa State.  What is the story with JCL.  I know he switched high schools, and transferred from Illanoys to Depaul.

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Archie quit at Dayton to come to IU. Khristian Lander quit his high school to reclassify for IU.    Disloyal selfish losers.  Low character.  Probably poison to the team (there are rumors,

Smith isn’t an NBA anything.

I wish this topic would slowly sink to the bottom.  Bottom line is Justin doesn't want to play for us anymore.  Doesn't matter why.  Time to move on.

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2 hours ago, rico said:

I wish this topic would slowly sink to the bottom.  Bottom line is Justin doesn't want to play for us anymore.  Doesn't matter why.  Time to move on.

i actually agree with you Rico!

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18 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Let me ask you one thing have you never changed jobs in your life.  If you have then you quit on your former employee to take another job elsewhere.  He is just looking to go somewhere where it will benefit him and he did it in the off season so there is nothing wrong with what he did.

I don't know about you all, but I absolutely did quit when moving from one job to another.  I took it as an opportunity for me but my employer took it as me quitting that job.  

As far as Smith, whatever, whether he quit or not is just semantics.  At the end of the day he won't be here next year so my interest in him drops tremendously.

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17 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

The stuff in that article is why I am not really upset to see Justin go.  Yes, he did bring some things on the court, but there is so much smoke around the fact that he had just a crappy attitude...those kind of attitudes on a team are cancer.  Damezi was a guy who, from all I heard, had a great attitude even if things were not going well for him.  Frankly, I feel worse about Damezi leaving than I do Justin.

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17 hours ago, milehiiu said:

He will get booed mercilessly at the Hall if he goes there.  I fell there are already quite a few fans that have had an issue with Justin, going to Purdue would give them an opportunity to voice that displeasure.  Luke Recker's return comes to mind.

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1 hour ago, RJPaisley said:

We sure embraced Max Bielfeldt  when he decided to finish his college career as a Hoosier. I hope Justin finds what works for him. I will always consider him a Hoosier.

 

 

Bielfeldt was forced out of Michigan IIRC.

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52 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Bielfeldt was forced out of Michigan IIRC.

Which is crazy, but goes to show programs move forward and progress.  Difference is Max embraced his role. graduated from Michigan, gave a solid 15 minutes.  

Edited by Fiveoutofsix
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I can understand why he may want to go to a team where he has more opportunities on the offensive end. I don’t think he was going to get that at IU. Everyone should always want to enhance their resume to move up the ladder.  I will say, though, it usually doesn’t work out because it is hard to fit in with only one year. I wish him the best. 

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6 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i think the truth is that today's society largely teaches that it's okay to quit or back out of a commitment.  if things are tough or go poorly, don't stick with it and get stronger/better/overcome...just go somewhere else!  instant gratification... it's someone else's fault.  so yeah, i think in a sense he quit, but it is rampant these days and just viewed as okay.  in this case, i couldn't care less.  i still don't think it's going to hurt us one bit.  as long as he doesn't go to Purdouche, i wish him the best and hope his dad can keep his mouth shut.  

You're right in a sense he did quit, but he also stuck with his commitment to IU for three years and to a coach that he didn't originally commit to. He only has one year left to play so I can't fault him for wanting to enjoy it. He clearly wasn't going to be able to showcase his talents at the 3 for IU next year (thankfully), and I think it's best for both Justin and IUBB that they part ways.  He's supposed to stay so he can be remembered fondly by fans when he returns to Assembly Hall years down the road?  His memories would probably be of a miserable senior year playing out of position (in his eyes). I wish him well but I'm more excited about the possibility of what next season will look like.

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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

You're right in a sense he did quit, but he also stuck with his commitment to IU for three years and to a coach that he didn't originally commit to. He only has one year left to play so I can't fault him for wanting to enjoy it. He clearly wasn't going to be able to showcase his talents at the 3 for IU next year (thankfully), and I think it's best for both Justin and IUBB that they part ways.  He's supposed to stay so he can be remembered fondly by fans when he returns to Assembly Hall years down the road?  His memories would probably be of a miserable senior year playing out of position (in his eyes). I wish him well but I'm more excited about the possibility of what next season will look like.

agreed with all

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20 minutes ago, RJPaisley said:

We don't really know that Justin wasn't strongly encouraged to move on.

 

Very, very unlikely. There’s nothing pointing to that. Biefeldt was looking for minutes / playing time. Smith was a heavy minutes leading scorer, with D, who CAM valued 

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This might be semantics but I wouldn’t say Justin Smith is a quitter per say, or overall in his life or anything. He’s played 3 years of high level D1 basketball. That’s hard. He graduated from IU in 3 years. That’s hard. But, I would say he has quit on his teammates. This is completely different than Damezi Anderson or Max Bielfeldt.

Anderson was never going to be part of the rotation, most likely not even as a senior. College players only have 4years and want to be on the court, so it makes perfect sense for him to find a lower level where he can play. Max Bielfeldt had his scholarship pulled by Beilein, he had to leave Michigan or his college career was over. 

The reason I feel Smith quit on his teammates is because he was going to be a 3-year starter. He was coming off a season where he led the team in minutes. He was going to be a leader of this team on the floor, especially defensively, and off the floor. This is a program that hasn’t played an NCAA Tourmanment game since 2016 and he was going to be a leader in helping to end that streak. 

This isn’t a guy that’s transferring because he rides the pine or had his scholarship pulled, etc. He’s been given every opportunity to show he can play the position he wants, but he couldn’t do it. Now, his teammates needed a leader who would be willing to accept his role, which he would have been good at, to help them win and achieve the goals they’ve had together for 3 years. 

He has every right to be selfish. He has every right to transfer. He has every right to leave for a role he thinks he should have (though I don’t think it makes much sense). There’s nothing he’s doing that isn’t his right as a player, student and person. But, he did quit on his teammates. 

Edited by BGleas
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Interested to see what the popular opinion is here, had you known at the start of the 2020 recruiting cycle that Justin would leave would you have prioritized D’Andre Davis when he decommitted from Nebraska or opted to leave the scholly open?

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1 hour ago, Madison22 said:

Archie quit at Dayton to come to IU.

Khristian Lander quit his high school to reclassify for IU.   

Disloyal selfish losers.  Low character.  Probably poison to the team (there are rumors, let's spread them!).  They're not part of the IU family.  Don't need 'em, don't want 'em, good riddance.  Right?  That's what I'm reading in this thread.  They're quitters.  We don't get to pick and choose which quitters we like.  If they're quitters, forget them.

There is zero difference between what Archie and Khristian did, and what Justin is doing.  Some may disagree with that, and I expect people to type with their fists to explain why.  But facts are facts.  Both Archie and Khristian are quitters, based on how people in this thread define that term. 

We need to bring back Mike Davis and Dan Dakich as coaches (promote from within only), and only take players who guarantee to stay for four years.  That's the plan.  No more grad transfers coming, either.   

btw, when Smith was recruited, "three and a degree" was IU's main pitch.  Our top selling point.  He accomplished exactly that, from the business school no less.  He could have gone to Stanford, which at one point was the favorite in his recruitment.  Stanford has one of the top five average starting salaries for graduates in the nation, ahead of Princeton, Harvard, and Yale.  (Indiana does not make the top 30). 

Justin bought in to what he was told at the time, and we treat him like this.  To what point?  What does it accomplish to smear a player like this, over and over and over?  Can't we show just a little class?     

He deserves better.  I wish him well, and fully expect him to have a terrific future.  Good for him.

The only reason I'm posting this is not to argue with anyone.  Rather, in case Justin or his family sees it.  I hope they do.  But I'm not going to debate this.  No one is changing their mind on this topic, so I'm shutting off the screen to go outside to enjoy the day.

Cheers to all!  Go IU!   

Best post of the thread.  

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@Madison22 and @BGleas both make powerful arguments here and I'm persuaded by both sides.  I don't buy Justin telling people he was leaving before the season and I don't believe Archie pushed him out. I do believe that he was told his role would be at the 4 next season and I don't believe he wanted to play there behind/beside Trayce so he made the decision he felt he needed to make.  It is what it is.  As long as he stays out of the Big Ten, or Kensucky, I'll have no problem wishing him well.

Next man up.

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quit·ter
/ˈkwidər/
 
noun
INFORMAL
  1. a person who gives up easily or does not have the courage or determination to finish a task.
     
    I think what we define as quitting is different from person to person but under this definition I would think it hard to call Justin a quitter. He didn’t just give up easily despite heavy criticism and difficulties within the team. Hard to say he didn’t finish his task as he graduated in 3 years. The complexities of playing on a college basketball team aren’t so simple or decisions black and white. In Justin’s eyes perhaps he accomplished exactly what he sat out to do. Just because his decision doesn’t fit our box for him doesn’t mean I’d characterize him as a quitter. Especially given the fact we know maybe 1% of his story or context about his decision. I think if we want to tread down the road of defining him as quitting on his teammates than I think we should be just as consistent about saying it about anyone that leaves the program voluntarily.
     
    After all even if it’s a kid getting no meaningful minutes on a team do we say he isn’t important to the “team”? The few minutes he does play, the hard work in practice, the encouraging his teammates, the sacrifice to a lesser role when they could go somewhere else and play. So if they stick it out to help the team why isn’t it quitting if they don’t? Why isn’t a star not staying quitting when they go pro? It’s because maybe it’s not just black and white...it has nuisance to the circumstances. Given we know very little of those circumstances maybe we should be a little more careful then to call out a kid. I mean the kid gets new teammates every year..other than Al all the teammates who he committee to play with are gone. So which ones did he quit on and if they were understanding of his situation and encouraging him to do what is best for him why aren’t we?? Or is it really some feel like he quit on them...which I think is what it’s more about. I may not think quitting is the right term without knowing the whole story but others might. If they are cool with judging without knowing the whole situation then I guess that’s their right.
     
     
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He's gone.  Let this be the end.  Quit, left for greener pastures, fulfilled his commitment...whatever...who cares at this point?  His loss, he isn't an NBA player and he left what could have been a fun situation to chase a dream.  More power to him.

He owes us nothing and we frankly owe him nothing.

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Good luck Justin, wish you well. I have to be honest, I keep waiting for him to be more offensive! He never became the shooter we needed. Was that because of the system or because he’s not a good shooter! 
My guess is he isn’t a good shooter. Can’t say I felt confident any time he took a shot unless it was a dunk. 

Edited by Bob
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Seems like Illinois is really interested here. I don't get it.

I mean yes we have an open spot, might as well fill it with an experienced guy that has played well at times. But doesn't seem like the role would be any different than what he had at IU, and that's a big part of we he's leaving if I'm understanding things correctly?

Edited by BruceDouglas
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