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Racial tensions


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40 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I hope they've also gone over the amount of black on black crime and to be aware of that, as well. 

Obviously these officers are 99% guilty, but let's not pretend a young black man should only fear the cops. 

I don't think anyone is saying that they should "only fear the cops," but that's a legitimate and heartbreaking fear that white men and boys don't really need to worry about.

And, our department addresses and is concerned with ALL causes of death, violence, and disparities for brown and black people. And white people as well.

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33 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I hope they've also gone over the amount of black on black crime and to be aware of that, as well. 

Obviously these officers are 99% guilty, but let's not pretend a young black man should only fear the cops. 

Don't fret, I'm sure his sons know crime is bad too. 😕 And not one person is claiming, or would be crazy enough to claim that a young black man should 'only' fear cops. I don't get that impression from anybody. 

This retort in these situations always confuses me because what's the point of bringing this up? We're talking about police officers, authority figures who are supposed to protect us, killing an innocent man and you are shifting the focus to black on black crime? Don't get my wrong, both are bad, but one problem has nothing to do with the other problem. 

It's just as relevant to say 'I hope this dad is teaching his sons to look both ways before crossing the street because oncoming traffic is dangerous too.' 

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Had a department wide Zoom call today where we ended by acknowledging what a tough week this has been for racial tensions. One of our section chiefs spoke eloquently and passionately about how crushing these events are for people to deal with - he is also a black man with teenage sons. Was really tough watching everyone's faces as the tears started flowing.

I am not for looting and destruction, but peaceful protest is NOT working - it cost Colin Kaepernick his career.

How can people storming statehouses with weapons be "very fine people" who deserve a deal, while unarmed protesters in MN get teargas and rubber bullets for protesting a murder at the hands of police?

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1 minute ago, Lostin76 said:

 

I am not for looting and destruction, but peaceful protest is NOT working - it cost Colin Kaepernick his career.

 

Lost. I love you to death.  However, as a Vietnam veteran.  I can't accept anyone who disrespects our great American flag. 

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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Looting smh.  Losing their voice. 

Agreed. The frustration and outrage over injustice has been voiced over and over again over decades, over centuries. The lack of an acceptable response that truly strikes at the root cause is the silencing. To underscore the criminality of rioting (the consequences) is to ignore the underlying injustice. Unless and until justice is served and further hard work towards progress is undertaken.

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16 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Don't fret, I'm sure his sons know crime is bad too. 😕 And not one person is claiming, or would be crazy enough to claim that a young black man should 'only' fear cops. I don't get that impression from anybody. 

This retort in these situations always confuses me because what's the point of bringing this up? We're talking about police officers, authority figures who are supposed to protect us, killing an innocent man and you are shifting the focus to black on black crime? Don't get my wrong, both are bad, but one problem has nothing to do with the other problem. 

It's just as relevant to say 'I hope this dad is teaching his sons to look both ways before crossing the street because oncoming traffic is dangerous too.' 

Ok lol I agree. 

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Appreciate that this thread has not gone political. 

The racial injustice is just so awfully obvious, and that repeatedly, over and over, year after year, this kind of cop killing, repeatedly of young black, unarmed men, occurs with the cops not getting charged or getting off at trial, is the problem. This is an ingrained, long-term social issue that's still there. Ignoring it, or pointing to black on black crime completely misses the point. 

Part of the problem is also the legal system. As a lawyer who has reviewed cases and jury charges involving cop killings and beatings, I know the legal standards and the burdens that must be met to obtain/sustain a guilty verdict. Without going into the many details, it's an extremely high and difficult burden to meet. Even when charged, which is the exception, when you have, as here, witnesses and evidence demonstrating what actually happened, the gross abuse of power and clear criminal conduct by the cops themselves, oftentimes the cops go free, because of the way the law is currently written.

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22 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Derek Chauvin. The cop who kept his knee on the suspect.  Has been taking into custody.

Only one question. Why did this not happen till today.

Hopefully, this will be the type of action that moves the needle - if only a smidge - of building more trust between the black community and our criminal justice system. Much more work to be done. My understanding is they could have taken him into custody and modified the charges had any further evidence come in. I'm no expert. Just what I heard on a TV new interview. 

EDIT: Read Hoosierhoopster's post two up for knowledgable context about the question raised about time before charging/taking into custody.

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Just now, btownqb said:

Yeah Kap just isn't any good. 

I would not go that far.  IMHO he could have expressed himself better in other ways.  As he did today on twitter.  Vocal.  Got a problem ?  Express yourself. And once again. As a veteran, as I am .... never disrespect our flag.

As an aside. I was the first on my block to fly the flag. Years ago.   No big deal. The big deal is that now.... most every house on my block is flying the great American flag.

 

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Just now, milehiiu said:

I would not go that far.  IMHO he could have expressed himself better in other ways.  As he did today on twitter.  Vocal.  Got a problem ?  Express yourself. And once again. As a veteran, as I am .... never disrespect our flag.

As an aside. I was the first on my block to fly the flag. Years ago.   No big deal. The big deal is that now.... most every house on my block is flying the great American flag.

 

I'm not talking anything about off the field. He went like 1-11 his last year starting, that doesn't get you a job in the NFL. 

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1 minute ago, btownqb said:

I'm not talking anything about off the field. He went like 1-11 his last year starting, that doesn't get you a job in the NFL. 

Obviously. The NFL agrees with you on his talents.  Having said that.  I believe Kap also made himself toxic to other teams. The combo is what is keeping him from playing, IMHO.  There is one former Bronco QB... who also did not have great stats... who just got picked up by another team.

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Thankful the officer was arrested. The timeline is irrelevant, we don't know everyhing that went into it. 

He's arrested, by all accounts, looks guilty. Now please stop the destruction of property, and am I right in saying someone died in the riots? Goodness. 

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9 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Lost. I love you to death.  However, as a Vietnam veteran.  I can't accept anyone who disrespects our great American flag. 

Kaepernick originally sat for the national anthem until a green beret vet told him it was disrespectful to those who have served. From that point on he took a knee in honor of those who have served. You can still disagree with his method of protest, but I come across a lot of people who don’t know this and wanted to share. His intention wasn’t ever to disrespect it was just portrayed that way; he wanted to bring awareness. I don’t think intentions excuse all but I do think they bring some perspective to situations. 

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651/the-veteran-and-nfl-player-who-advised-kaepernick-to-take-a-knee

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Just now, milehiiu said:

Obviously. The NFL agrees with you on his talents.  Having said that.  I believe Kap also made himself toxic to other teams. The combo is what is keeping him from playing, IMHO.  There is one former Bronco QB... who also did not have great stats... who just got picked up by another team.

Oh I agree. You're 100% right, but... end of the day, he's an employee and its his job to make his owner money, he wasnt going to do that and that's why he doesn't have a job. 

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17 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Lost. I love you to death.  However, as a Vietnam veteran.  I can't accept anyone who disrespects our great American flag. 

Hi Mile, as a Navy vet I agree about the flag. I still recall how serious we took raising and lowering the flag and how carefully we cared for it. I could probably fold it in my sleep! I was taught to respect the flag and always have. I don't even like to see people wearing clothes with the flag pattern.

But, I didn't and don't have a problem with Kap trying to bring up the issue with police violence in the way he did. Desperate times for black men right now and was then too.

I didn't realize you were a Vietnam vet, Mile. My favorite uncle was a Vietnam vet. I always loved him and felt close to him b/c I knew he struggled sometimes. He committed suicide when I was 12 and I still think about him almost daily. My respect for you has grown ever more today, my friend, even if we don't always agree.

 

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33 minutes ago, hoosier_exotics said:

Does anyone have actual data on how many black folks, and how many white folks are killed per year by cops?  

Found this, not sure how legit it is

Screenshot_20200529-132712_Chrome.jpg

I'll confess that those numbers surprise me.

 

 

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1 minute ago, 5fouls said:

I'll confess that those numbers surprise me.

 

 

They dont me. When you really break down that there are 4 white people for everyone 1 black person... these numbers aren't that far off. 

Now.. numbers paint a different story when you break down each individual case. 

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6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Kaepernick originally sat for the national anthem until a green beret vet told him it was disrespectful to those who have served. From that point on he took a knee in honor of those who have served. You can still disagree with his method of protest, but I come across a lot of people who don’t know this and wanted to share. His intention wasn’t ever to disrespect it was just portrayed that way; he wanted to bring awareness. I don’t think intentions excuse all but I do think they bring some perspective to situations. 

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/09/646115651/the-veteran-and-nfl-player-who-advised-kaepernick-to-take-a-knee

Well. All I can say is that nearly a dozen Denver Broncos took a knee on the field in support of Kap's initial taking of a knee during the playing of our National Anthem.  I became a Bronco fan in 1970 when I first moved to Colorado.  And until those Broncos took a knee... I only missed THREE games. Either in person, or on the tv.   Since then.... I have not ever watched again.  That's how strongly this Vietnam vet feels about disrespecting our flag and National Anthem.  Take it either way or both. Disrespect for the flag. And/or disrespect for our National Anthem. 

I actually had a discussion with a Bronco rep over this.  And all he did was defend what the Bronco players did.  I could not believe my ears.

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12 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Hi Mile, as a Navy vet I agree about the flag. I still recall how serious we took raising and lowering the flag and how carefully we cared for it. I could probably fold it in my sleep! I was taught to respect the flag and always have. I don't even like to see people wearing clothes with the flag pattern.

But, I didn't and don't have a problem with Kap trying to bring up the issue with police violence in the way he did. Desperate times for black men right now and was then too.

I didn't realize you were a Vietnam vet, Mile. My favorite uncle was a Vietnam vet. I always loved him and felt close to him b/c I knew he struggled sometimes. He committed suicide when I was 12 and I still think about him almost daily. My respect for you has grown ever more today, my friend, even if we don't always agree.

 

So sorry to hear about your uncle.  I can't tell you the number of comrades I lost during and after the war.

In terms of the flag, and respect for it.  And I know you know this.  And while I don't expect my neighbors to do this. But I know you know. To light the flag at night.  I have a spotlight on a timer that goes on each and every night. To light my flag when the sun goes down.

As for Kap.  As I have said. I feel he could have expressed himself in other ways.

Respect you as well. And thanks for your service.

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