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17 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I’m going to have to just let this crap go as it’s clear you’re not listening. No, you don’t have the “right” to shoot people to protect property. You have the right to defend yourself and others. Big distinction but apparently lost here. 

Then how do gas station clearks have guns with them...i have seen on Indianapolis news stations clerks shoot people trying to rob them and they dont get in trouble for shooting them,they get applauded for protecting themselves and the business 

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Just now, IU Scott said:

So what is the difference if someone comes into your house to only still your property. So do you have to wait until the robbers show a weapon, no you don't so why is any different when someone comes into your business.

This is getting tiring. A home break in is significantly different and recognized as such in the law. When someone breaks into your house there is a recognized personal threat that generally isn’t there in a looting - business break in to steal tv’s or whatever. 
and AGAIN the shop owner who stays with shotgun drawn - how this discussion started - is NOT defending himself - he’s using a shotgun to stop people from stealing - you Do Not get to do that. 

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2 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

No jury would ever convict in the scenario I presented.  Remember Joe Horn?  

 

I find it more than a little disturbing that you and I agree on something.  I guess it proves the adage that behind every black cloud is a silver lining.

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3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

No jury would ever convict in the scenario I presented.  Remember Joe Horn?  

 

Moving target (pun intended). 
This started - again  - with props being given to the shop owner who stays in his shop with a shotgun to shoot people who break in. He will be charged and convicted if he just shoots someone to protect his property. 

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24 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Get a clue Rico. The law applies to you, just like everyone else. You don’t get to use deadly force to defend personal property generally and absolutely not business property. Again, if you’re defending yourself - guy threatens you - that’s self defense. Stand in front of your ship and shoot anyone who breaks in, and you’re a murder. 
this whole ridiculous man up, loon at me I’m such a man I can shoot people outlook is absurd 

You are right, the whole, man up, look at me, I'm such a man, I can burn down businesses and steal people's s#!t is a much better look.

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4 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

Then how do gas station clearks have guns with them...i have seen on Indianapolis news stations clerks shoot people trying to rob them and they dont get in trouble for shooting them,they get applauded for protecting themselves and the business 

It’s all fact specific man. The ones who shoot and don’t get charged generally weren’t charged because the person they shot had a gun or weapon. That’s self defense. 
Turn this around in your mind, instead of posting on emotion as most are here. Teenager breaks glass runs into store to steal something. Unarmed. Shop owner shoots and kills him. You think that’s ok? You think he won’t get charged? 

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1 minute ago, Muddy River said:

You are right, the whole, man up, look at me, I'm such a man, I can burn down businesses and steal people's s#!t is a much better look.

If you think shooting and killing an unarmed guy who breaks a window to steal something at your Business makes you a man, that’s too bad 

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1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Business is not the same as home.  Now if the two are the same thing somebody might have a chance. 

Understand....just pointing out the difference so people know. Home vs business two completely different things but Indiana is one of the few states (as the article says) that has the Castle Doctrine in play. 

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2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

If you think shooting and killing an unarmed guy who breaks a window to steal something at your Business makes you a man, that’s too bad 

 

2 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

If you think shooting and killing an unarmed guy who breaks a window to steal something at your Business makes you a man, that’s too bad 

I'm curious, is there a list of questions I'm supposed to ask to discern the intruder's intent?  Put simply as long as you don't  break in and steal my stuff, neither one of us has a problem.  If you do break in and steal stuff, only I will be left with a problem....I'd take my chances with a jury of my peers.

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John Grisham got it right in 1989 with his novel, A Time to Kill.  For those who are not familiar with the story, a pair of redneck white men rape a young, preteen black girl.  The father of the girl kills the two men, gets arrested for murder, and goes to trial.  The jury ultimately finds him not guilty.

The difference between that story and what's going on now?  The father sought vengeance against those that committed the crime. I have absolutely no problem with what the fictional father in the book did.   For the current story, businesses like CVS, Target, T-Mobile, and all the restaurants that have been vandalized and looted were not the ones that committed the injustice.   

That's wrong, and the people that are trying to justify this as a way to right an injustice are simply not looking at this properly.  Seeking vengeance against a person/entity that had nothing to do with the original crime is wrong.  And, as we're told when we are in grade school, two rights don't make a wrong. From my perspective, it makes no sense to try and argue otherwise. 

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8 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s all fact specific man. The ones who shoot and don’t get charged generally weren’t charged because the person they shot had a gun or weapon. That’s self defense. 
Turn this around in your mind, instead of posting on emotion as most are here. Teenager breaks glass runs into store to steal something. Unarmed. Shop owner shoots and kills him. You think that’s ok? You think he won’t get charged? 

So the shop owner should just smile and pray that the robber doesn't have a gun or knife and that they don't get harmed?  I doubt almost anyone would take that chance.

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The self defense argument applies in Colorado. And the Colorado legislature ironically is working to expand it to businesses.

'Make my Day' law could expand to include businesses 

As far as a store owner standing in the doorway of his closed business as protestors walk by.  It's a deterrent. No different than having my German Shepard roaming the yard. Or coming to the door, when a stranger comes to the door.  I have posted this before.  When a solicitor has come to my front door.  My German is always there.  And more than once I have had solicitors turn around and leave.  No harm. No foul. Food for thought.

'

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6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

It’s all fact specific man. The ones who shoot and don’t get charged generally weren’t charged because the person they shot had a gun or weapon. That’s self defense. 
Turn this around in your mind, instead of posting on emotion as most are here. Teenager breaks glass runs into store to steal something. Unarmed. Shop owner shoots and kills him. You think that’s ok? You think he won’t get charged? 

What does he break the glass with? Glass now a days it takes a good bit to break it...so if he has a foreign object the store owner then knows he is armed with an object...at that point it goes from a robbery to possible assault then i would think you have the right to defend yourself with any means necessary...IMO

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Just now, HoosierJax said:

What does he break the glass with? Glass now a days it takes a good bit to break it...so if he has a foreign object the store owner then knows he is armed with an object...at that point it goes from a robbery to possible assault then i would think you have the right to defend yourself with any means necessary...IMO

Pretty sure they have to threaten you with a weapon. Or to brandish it at you.  

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1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Pretty sure they have to threaten you with a weapon. Or to brandish it at you.  

Define weapon.  A hammer that breaks windows is a weapon.  A rock is a weapon.  An intruders fist can even be considered a weapon.  

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2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Define weapon.  A hammer that breaks windows is a weapon.  A rock is a weapon.  An intruders fist can even be considered a weapon.  

Regardless they still need to threaten you with it. Otherwise business owners could just shoot anybody openly carrying in their business

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A collapsible baton could be an option I would think. I carry one in my pocket when out of town. They come in different sizes.  A handgun is last resort.  You whack someone a couple times with a baton and they will think twice about what they are doing. 

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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Define weapon.  A hammer that breaks windows is a weapon.  A rock is a weapon.  An intruders fist can even be considered a weapon.  

And in the U.S. Army.  I learned a silent technique as to how to kill an enemy combatant in Viet Nam.  Quietly sneak up behind them.  Thrust you fist into their kidney. And then wrap both arms around their neck.  Then.  Fall to the ground. Bringing them down. And snapping their neck.

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This isn’t going to be popular, but...

Part of the reason we’re in this situation is because we’ve come to a point where some in our society value a pack of gum on the counter, a case of coke in the cooler, or a TV hanging in the wall in businesses more than we value human life. We have a shoot first mentality, then ask questions later and hope I can come up with a reason it was self defense.

I get it, I don’t want anyone stealing my stuff or my livelihood, but I’m also not going to take a human life over it and then wear that I did that as a badge of honor. If someone breaks into your business and loots it, they should absolutely be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent. Absolutely. But, I’m not taking someone’s life unless I have absolutely no other way out. 

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