Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 https://www.foxnews.com/media/jason-riley-blanket-media-coverage-floyd-incident This black man raises some good points. Some that haven't been addressed here. Quick summary- believes these incidents have declined over time and are being promoted by the media and social media to be more prevalent than is reality. He does not fear the police. Most importantly, IMO, believes that blacks will be harmed further from the lack of police response in their neighborhoods causing more people to be robbed, murdered etc. You look at the damage being done to infrastructure and businesses and I have to agree. People will move out and those Left Behind will suffer even more. Taxes will rise to cover the damages. Are the good intentioned protesters thinking about those people suffering caused as a result of said protests? Where is the disabled senior citizen going to now get her prescription or groceries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/the-president-has-the-constitutional-power-to-restore-order-he-must-act/?amp Places the blame on leadership. From Mayors to Governors, to the President. Should have stepped up earlier to put an end to this before letting it spiral out of control. Some nice legal arguments for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 52 minutes ago, 5fouls said: @KoB2011 Last night, you asked me a question regarding what if my son was one of the looters since kids do stupid things. Let's change that up and I'll ask you how you would feel if your son was the store owner. Here's the scenario. Your son owns a small business that stays open until, let's say 10 o'clock. At 9:00 PM, news starts breaking about riots occurring in the area. Your son starts hearing sirens, and what appears to be gunshots. They may or may not be rubber bullets. He can't tell. He steps outside and sees the CVS on the corner of the next block on fire. At that point he decides to call it a night and begins the process to close. Unfortunately, before he gets too far in the process, a brick is thrown through the store window, Then someone with a hammer finishes smashing through the glass and 4 looters pile into the store. Three of them grab some merchandise and immediately run out. But, the guy with the hammer walks toward your son, points the hammer and says 'Give me all the cash'. It's not really a threat, because hammers can't shoot after all and the looter did not add 'or I'll bash your head in' to his demand for the cash. At this point, I can see the scenario playing out 6 different ways, only three of which are good for your son. So, basically a 50/50 proposition that something bad happens to your child. Your son gives the guy the money from the register and the looter flees with no harm to your son. This is the preferred outcome. Your son gives the looter the money, but the looter bashes your son in the head with the hammer anyway. Obviously a bad outcome. Your son refuses to give the looter the money and the looter bashes your son in the head with the hammer out of anger. Bad outcome Your son refuses to hand over the money and the looter flees. Second best outcome for your son. Your son defends his property and is not charged for whatever happened to the looter. A good outcome for your son, not so good for the looter. Your son defends his property and is charged with what happened to the looter. It was just a hammer after all. It's not like it was a gun. Not good for your son. Now, if it plays out like the last scenario, are you going to defend the actions of your son or be a witness for the prosecution explaining to the jury why your son should be charged? I ask, because it sounds as if it was anyone else's son but your own, you would be a prosecution witness. Meanwhile, your son is likely hoping I'm on the jury, because if I am, there is no way he's getting convicted, So, in summary, last night you put me on the spot to explain how I would react if my son was the looter. This morning, I'm asking you to explain, as a father, how you would react if your son was the store owner. @Hoosierhoopster. No legal answer. Just pick one or the other. Are you the prosecutor or the defense attorney in this case? There is a wide chasm between defending your property and killing someone. I don't have an issue with people defending their property, I have an issue with taking life from people. Given that this is why the protest started, it seems many still don't get the issue the black community faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Shooting death in Louisville related to the riots/protests. https://www.wdrb.com/news/one-dead-after-shooting-involving-police-national-guard-in-russell-neighborhood/article_93827d8c-a3cd-11ea-bcaf-17fb337ecba5.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Kudos to this black lady for saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Reacher said: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/the-president-has-the-constitutional-power-to-restore-order-he-must-act/?amp Places the blame on leadership. From Mayors to Governors, to the President. Should have stepped up earlier to put an end to this before letting it spiral out of control. Some nice legal arguments for those interested. Isn't that the theme of 2020? Hopefully we got on the Murder Hornets early enough. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, Reacher said: @KoB2011, let me add to add to @5foulsscenario. Your daughter senses the protest she is attending getting ugly and decided to leave. She calls you and is talking to you on the phone telling you about the protest when she ends up with her vehicle surrounded. You were just watching the news and saw vehicles overturned and burned, people pulled from their vehicles and beaten. Your daughter tells you her vehicle is being rocked. windows are being smashed. Do you tell her to hit the gas and get herself out of that situation? That seems like pretty clear cut self defense to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, IUFLA said: As long as we can herd the folks who seem to have broken out the pom-poms in favor of looting and violence into that thread as well... See? Other people can use innuendo and hyperbole too... No one is rooting for the looters. Saying they don't deserve to die is far from am endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: I don't have an issue with people defending their property, I have an issue with taking life from people. Glad to hear this! No one wants to take anybodies life. The two events can be separate. Now, care to condemn those perpetrating the violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Reacher said: Glad to hear this! No one wants to take anybodies life. The two events can be separate. Now, care to condemn those perpetrating the violence? And no one is "bragging" about shooting them either...hence my post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, Reacher said: Lansing MI- a tale of 2 protests Anyone notice, care to explain, the difference in the protesters in Lansing MI? Reopen protesters made big news with their protests yet there was no damage, trash, injuries, etc. Compare that with the rioting from the Floyd protests. I'm sure there are many other places where similar comparisons can be made. Yes - the police let those armed protesters do whatever they wanted include getting pretty close to elected officials (and no one got shot, weird) and there weren't white supremacists groups escalating the situation. In these protests, we have evidence white supremacists groups have taken advantage of the opportunity to start the looting and rioting and we have evidence of continued police brutality and escalating the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: That seems like pretty clear cut self defense to me... Why, she is protected in her vehicle and the peaceful protesters don't have any weapons. See how this becomes a slippery slope? Its not so cut and dry. A tanker truck driver in MN was just arrested because he got stick on an interstate amid a protest. Guess he should have waited for his tanker to explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reacher said: Glad to hear this! No one wants to take anybodies life. The two events can be separate. Now, care to condemn those perpetrating the violence? I think anyone committing and injustice against another living being is wrong, violence or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: Yes - the police let those armed protesters do whatever they wanted include getting pretty close to elected officials (and no one got shot, weird) and there weren't white supremacists groups escalating the situation. In these protests, we have evidence white supremacists groups have taken advantage of the opportunity to start the looting and rioting and we have evidence of continued police brutality and escalating the situation. Lets wait and see what happens when the facts come out instead of jumping to conclusions. I don'rt see many white supremacist groups in the news. I do see plenty of Antifa and BLM. Trace the $ to see who is funding those groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Time to get to work. See everyone tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reacher said: Why, she is protected in her vehicle and the peaceful protesters don't have any weapons. See how this becomes a slippery slope? Its not so cut and dry. A tanker truck driver in MN was just arrested because he got stick on an interstate amid a protest. Guess he should have waited for his tanker to explode. Well for one it is her personal property and she is inside of it, so she seems to be directly in harm's way. You don't see how that's different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 33 minutes ago, IUFLA said: As long as we can herd the folks who seem to have broken out the pom-poms in favor of looting and violence into that thread as well... See? Other people can use innuendo and hyperbole too... Fair enough, but I didn't see 7 pages of people talking about how they were in favor of looting and violence. Just about how they would shoot looters . As I''ve said multiple times in this thread devoted to racial tensions, I am 100% in support of all the peaceful protestors. I am not in support of violence and looting of innocent property or the violence of cops against protestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluegrassIU Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 This is all very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 9 hours ago, Lostin76 said: Happening right now at the Barclays Center. This might get bad. Too many cops and too many batons 17 hours ago, Lostin76 said: Makes my blood boil. This was from Friday night one street over from ours. Can you imagine if it was your daughter, your sister? There were many other videos circulating of the NYPD attacking protestors from Friday. I think that's why our hood was so angry and torched so many police cars last night. One positive is that there was no looting of stores/homes in our area. Yes, certainly sounds like the police are the issue in this article Just acknowledge that there are idiots on both sides. You, @KoB2011, and @Brass Cannon, seem to want to give the benefit of doubt to the protesters. You even tacitly imply that the violence is justified by saying "I think that's why our hood was so angry and torched so many police cars last night." Each act of violence is an INDIVIDUAL act on both sides...and should be treated and dealt with as such... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 This is what happened in Denver on Sunday : Groups volunteer, clean up Civic Center Park, downtown Denver after weekend of protests | 9news.com More groups are planning to help out today. June 1. One couple weren't willing to wait, and was at the Capital Building at 5:30 this morning. On their hands and knees, scrubbing graffiti off the entrance to the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostin76 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yes, certainly sounds like the police are the issue in this article Just acknowledge that there are idiots on both sides. You, @KoB2011, and @Brass Cannon, seem to want to give the benefit of doubt to the protesters. You even tacitly imply that the violence is justified by saying "I think that's why our hood was so angry and torched so many police cars last night." Each act of violence is an INDIVIDUAL act on both sides...and should be treated and dealt with as such... NYPD pulling down protestor mask to spray them The police ARE an issue. They are the reason this thread exists. And finally, I agree with you - I acknowledge that "there are idiots on both sides." See, we can agree on something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-BONE Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Protestors don't deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to violence/destruction. However, if society is interested in reducing/controlling violence in the future - especially as it pertains to this cycle of use of force by all parties, then the institutions involved in law, policy, and enforcement need a better, swifter response to the motivations that are fueling the unrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaybobHoosier Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 So business and homeowners aren’t allowed to defend themselves and their property?! Also, the only way we can defend ourselves is when we are threatened with a gun? So basically we should just stand by to let our lives ruined and businesses destroyed! While I respect your opinions, I just can’t get behind that. So if a robber comes into my home I can’t do anything until he threatens my family and I with a weapon? Absolutely not! You come into my home and threaten my family and I, you are going down! I’m not going to play nice homeowner and wait until I’m already at a disadvantage when they are showing a weapon and threatening us. Makes no sense. Same with a business. These business owners livelihood is at stake, and they have every right to defend themselves. So the people who disagree are saying business owners should let every thing go to ruins or do absolutely nothing until their lives are threatened first. I’m sorry but if you break the law by looting and breaking in, I’m not going to just smile and say have fun. These looters and criminals know that when breaking the law they are risking their lives. So when employees get shot by robbers for no reason, that makes it okay? Absolutely it doesn’t, so why take that chance and no protect yourselves. Should our military never act when their is a major threat or just let people murder our citizens and troops just because we wanted to be nice. I know that’s different but it’s the same logic. I’m not trying to argue, but I’m struggling with the view point of not being able to defend ourselves. Everyone needs to understand that we never want to murder someone or would do it easily, but when we are threatened we are going to protect what is ours. I’m not going to wait to see if someone has a gun. Deadly force would be the last thing to ever do, but these criminals take their lives in their OWN hands when they do this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lostin76 said: NYPD pulling down protestor mask to spray them The police ARE an issue. They are the reason this thread exists. And finally, I agree with you - I acknowledge that "there are idiots on both sides." See, we can agree on something! Yet you seem to want to lump all cops in with bad cops, while not doing the same with protesters...and really neither should be done... Look, there's not a person on this board who wants to have to react to a threat of violence. Guaranteed. If you've ever had a gun pointed at you, it's not a pleasant experience. And in most of those situations, you have scant seconds to react and a slow response will put you in grave danger. I understand what HH is saying. If someone is standing in front of their business with an AR15, there's a chance it can lead to a bad situation which might (legally or literally) blow up in their face... Saying you are willing to take that chance isn't bragging to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yet you seem to want to lump all cops in with bad cops, while not doing the same with protesters...and really neither should be done... Look, there's not a person on this board who wants to have to react to a threat of violence. Guaranteed. If you've ever had a gun pointed at you, it's not a pleasant experience. And in most of those situations, you have scant seconds to react and a slow response will put you in grave danger. I understand what HH is saying. If someone is standing in front of their business with an AR15, there's a chance it can lead to a bad situation which might (legally or literally) blow up in their face... Saying you are willing to take that chance isn't bragging to me... Unfortunately I have had this experience. And yeah, 1-2 seconds to react is about all you have. Fortunately the local officer( who did not announce himself) trying to kick in my door at 130 in the morning didn't shoot and neither did I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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