IU Scott Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, BGleas said: What's your point? We have 20+ pages of discussing looting. So what, this is a message board and the discussion just turned to this topic. It is not he first time or the last time that a discussion on this message board changes coarse. My point is just because a cop did a wrong does not mean people have the right to take it out on innocent people. The old saying two wrongs don't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, BGleas said: Then why are we talking about whether "Joe Store Owner" can shoot a looter as opposed to the real problems? Part of the problem is the real issue constantly gets put aside while some distraction becomes the main story. It’s like trying to defeat the Death Star but we only focus on fighting its little fighter ships instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 39 minutes ago, BGleas said: I respect everyone in this community. What we as posters, and especially the mods and forum creators, have worked to build over the years with HSN is why/how we can have this discussion respectfully. This kind of dialogue is possible because of the 10+ years we've all worked to build this great online community. WIth that said, this thread is what the powers that be want. This thread is what politicians want. This thread is what the media wants. This thread is what the people resistant to change want. This thread is what the people who don't think there is a problem want. This thread is a distraction from the real issues. Instead of discussing systemic racism, excessive force against people of color, police brutality, racial profiling, etc., and the real issues, we've got 20+ pages on the whether a store owner can shoot and kill a robber. 20+ pages on whether looting is wrong (nobody has said it isn't wrong). 20+ pages on stuff that is distracting from the core root of the issue. Tried to start that discussion a few pages back, but there was no response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Back on topic, the most confounding thing to me is how and why it’s so difficult to implement needed structural changes to police departments. It’s just the same ole, same ole. The members of this board could put together an action plan before dinner tonight and yet nothing ever changes in the real world. The country as a whole suffers as a result. Regarding the discussion above about politicians, I am not a political scientist but as a layperson, my sense is the politicians do not work well together. Even when an overwhelming majority of people agree on something, stuff doesn’t get done. The parties are mirror images of each other so it’s not one particular party. The extremists develop think tanks or lobbyists that collect money and start funding congressmen and women based on one issue. One party doesn’t want the other party to get a political win. Take one example, infrastructure. It’s totally do-able and the electorate agrees as much as you can get. Yet, decades flip by as it’s not addressed. I traveled abroad before the pandemic and it’s totally BS that second rate countries have better airports, trains, etc than we do. It’s a no brainer, yet nothing gets done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Seems to me, not detaining and taking people to jail for most non violent crimes would stop alot of this. If they commit a non violent crime, issue a fine or court summons and leave it up to them if they want it to escalate further. We are supposed to be free with the notion of innocent until proven guilty. I just cant believe people die at the hands of cops or go to jail in some places for the same things I can do here without trouble. It's always been about the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierFaithful Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 ^^ you're not wrong, Bob. Each issue is also orders of magnitude more complex than any of us understand it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Because it started when some thought it was alright to riot and looting because it would lead to changes. I know my response was that this kind of thing would not lead to change and there were better ways of getting changes. Nobody said it was alright. saying it’s not ok to kill somebody for something. Is not saying it’s ok for them to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Also think police unions should be abolished, really any public sector union. You work for the public, dont like it, get a private sector job. Want a raise or better benefits, get a referendum on the next election ballot. Earn the public trust, earn your raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Gotta say this. Finally a topic that is in Hoosier Faithful's wheel house. More posts I have seen from you in a long time on any topic. Keep it up. And thanks to you for not shutting this thread down. It's important to me. And other members to keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 To add fuel to the fire the independent autopsy came back disagreeing with the county autopsy. Shockingly the independent one says he died of asphyxiation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, milehiiu said: Gotta say this. Finally a topic that is in Hoosier Faithful's wheel house. More posts I have seen from you in a long time on any topic. Keep it up. And thanks to you for not shutting this thread down. It's important to me. And other members to keep it going. You know, I just had a conversation this morning that ties into this and has a little to do with BGleas has said, which made me appreciate this board. I consider this one of my internet based communities - similar to facebook, twitter, etc. But the difference with social media is you pick who you interact with, or algorithms pick who you interact with and what you see. Here, we don't have posts that appear more because of advertising money behind them....or because how many people interact with them.....or how sensational they are. It's just old school conversation. The problem with social media is that we tend to live in our own information bubbles. We tend to only interact with people whose beliefs we share. We click on sensational headlines that support our views. There isn't much room or opportunity to understand why people see issues differently than you do. We're living during a strange time in history because it's very polarized and it's hard for us to find legitimate news that exists outside our belief structure. We don't know what's credible. People can't agree on facts. And we tend to want to fact check the fact checkers. At times i wonder, is this disorientation is good for 'political business'? Does painting the other side as the enemy devalue ALL the other side's beliefs...even beliefs you may have considered good ideas in the past? As BGleas said (paraphrased), it this where the 'man' wants us? Rolling around in the dirt and arguing over trivial stuff? While there are people I strongly disagree with on this board (or get angry with) I truly do value their opinion. I think it's very important that they get a chance to explain their opinions in this community, so I can understand where they are coming from. If we don't have outlets for this type of 'understanding' how are we supposed to compromise on anything???? In life or in politics? The funny thing is once you filter through all the crap, a lot of the time we want the same thing. We just disagree on how to achieve the result. Isn't that crazy? Just thinking about it on a macro level? Do we want racism? Nope. Do we want COVID to go away? Yep. Do we want a strong economy and to have good jobs? Yep. Does Purdue suck? Yep. Well, enough of patting everybody on the ass. I guess I just want to say debate makes us more evolved. Thank you for contributing to my evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 ^^^ tdhoosier. With out quoting you. Thanks for that post, first off. And let me say... that this thread has turned into one of my all time favorite threads. All kinds of opinions. Yet. No one really attacking others. Though they may not agree with them. Love our talks in the BB threads. However.... this IS the Animal House. Thanks again to all for conducting yourselves in a civil manner. HSN... we will get through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 @tdhoosier Life would be less fun If we all agreed on everything, and we wouldn't learn from each other. Bouncing ideas around is how stuff gets done. Plus the world needs wild/interesting characters, which I probably am one, more wild than interesting I'd guess. Great observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaybobHoosier Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said: @tdhoosier Life would be less fun If we all agreed on everything, and we wouldn't learn from each other. Bouncing ideas around is how stuff gets done. Plus the world needs wild/interesting characters, which I probably am one, more wild than interesting I'd guess. Great observations. Except it’s all good for us to hate Purdue, UK, etc. That’s just one of the purest things in this world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 We've went 25 pages with no Boiler now you chumps bring up Purdue 3 times in the same page... He's going to appear like the damn tooth fairy. 😆😆😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Courtesy of ITH : Statement from IU Athletic Director Fred Glass - Inside the Hall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrflynn03 Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 House was set on fire in Richmond with family inside last night Protestors blocked fire crews Smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, bluegrassIU said: I am gonna remove myself from this thread. My parting thoughts (feel free to rip them. I really do not care). There are basd cops. There are racist cops. There are clear systemic issues that people have the right to be angry about, be scared about and fight back against. The police, as a ehole are not the problem. Some are, but as a whole it is a very small minority. The bigger issues are systemic, economic, social biases, education, economic opportunities and so forth. The problem is, the police "represent " the system as they are the authority figures of this system that are seen by the public everyday. Blame bad cops. The cop who killed George Floyd needs to be held accountable. This does not mean it makes any sense to blame the police for all these bigger issues. It is like the bad soldiers at gitmo. Or the soldier that snaps and starts killing innocents. Assume you are a good cop, with good intentions. A mob of 20 people in your face, threatening you because of what some other idiot cop did. The anxiety is off the charts. These are human beings. Most of us could not last a day doing what the good cops do. Society is blowing up. Take out the rule of law and we are done. Abuse the position of power, and we are done. 90% of us support good cops and legitimate protesters. And those people make up the vast majority of our population. The problem is with the power hungry cops (a small percent) and the radical rioters on both ends of the political spectrum. Those are all the media, including social media, allow us to see. That simply fuels the anger on both sides. Bolstering our already preconceived ideas. It feeds itself. This thread shows this to br true. I have read many posts (on both sides) here from people I have tremendous respect for. I watch it get more and more personal and vitriolic to where I cringe just to read it. When smart, readonable people lose the ability to see both sides, recognize flaws in both sides, then what you fear (bad cop. Viscious rioters etc) is what you become. Then we lock into our side and slowly radicalize ourself. It is sad and complicated. But too many of us have all the answers and our side is always right. I think that might be your best post ever Bluegrass. Glad you brought up the line I bolded. Need to spend more time on those issues. We are focusing on the symptoms and not the causes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 This article is a few years old but relevant in light of current events. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html " when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias. “It is the most surprising result of my career,” said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study and a professor of economics at Harvard. The study examined more than 1,000 shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California. The result contradicts the image of police shootings that many Americans hold after the killings (some captured on video) of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.; Tamir Rice in Cleveland; Walter Scott in South Carolina; Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La.; and Philando Castile in Minnesota." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Yes, let's be fair about it. Since then we had a peaceful protest in Minneapolis that was escalated by police. This is in stark contrast to the armed protests in Michigan a few weeks earlier that the police did not escalate.... Then the situation was further exasperated by white suprematists.... So from my perspective, the thing that has escalated the situation to be as bad as it is now is what started it in the first place. That article is garbage. There is no evidence- just the "belief" of some officials. Looks like some political figures trying to defect blame. Show me some white supremacist group involved in this weeks rioting. There are all sorts of tweets referencing #Antifa including one Sunday (since removed) to leave the cities and target the suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Reacher said: That article is garbage. There is no evidence- just the "belief" of some officials. Looks like some political figures trying to defect blame. Show me some white supremacist group involved in this weeks rioting. There are all sorts of tweets referencing #Antifa including one Sunday (since removed) to leave the cities and target the suburbs. Elected officials aren’t sources but tweets are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Just announced the Mn. medical examiner has said George Floyds death was murder. Does this bump the charge to murder 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reacher Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Elected officials aren’t sources but tweets are? Come on. Elected officials are not infallible. There was no evidence, nothing factual. Do you doubt the presence/ involvement of Antifa? @mrflynn03 posted a better source on the previous page. You don't have to believe the tweet I saw. Listen to the President, Attorney General, or any of a multitude of news outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Just announced the Mn. medical examiner has said George Floyds death was murder. Does this bump the charge to murder 1? There's still going to be a lot more of the officers past come out, then what we know now. (All the infractions he has are already a really bad start) Past= text messages, conversations, likes/retweets on social media, etc. Are alllll going to be combed through millions of times. This is either going to be very bad for the officer or somewhat good. I have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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