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Racial tensions


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3 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Yeah, that video had self defense written all over it. Geesh man.

How do we know. You just called the other side out for judging without context. For all we know she just maced somebody for no reason. We don’t know know either do to editing or lack of video. 

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I think it would be much more productive to figure out what the catalyst for the response was and fix that. 

From what I've read Mr. Floyd had either written a bad check or used a counterfeit $20. Neither is a reason for detainment or escalation of force.  One source said he was drunk. The surveillance video didnt show any attempt to administer field sobriety tests.  The energy and focus should be on limiting interactions with police. 

 

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1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

Wow. Prime example of an off-the-cuff remark that heats up the divisive rhetoric on here, Admin.

I think the conversation in here has been remarkably civil.  We all “know” each other and so I’ve enjoyed reading what everyone has to say.  Just my perspective, I’m not saying I’m right.  

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2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

This concept pops up periodically.  Robert Johnson, billionaire from BET, calls for $14 trillion in reparations.  

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/01/bets-robert-johnson-calls-for-14-trillion-of-reparations-for-slavery.html

Even if you think it is a noble theoretical idea, I don’t see it as practical or ever a serious consideration.  

I think 365,000 dead Union Soldiers should be enough.

But determining who is descended from slaves would be a massive undertaking. 

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1 minute ago, BobSaccamanno said:

 

I think the conversation in here has been remarkably civil.  We all “know” each other and so I’ve enjoyed reading what everyone has to say.  Just my perspective, I’m not saying I’m right.  

It definitely has been. I just think that was uncalled for. 

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I am gonna remove myself from this thread. My parting thoughts (feel free to rip them. I really do not care).

There are basd cops. There are racist cops. There are clear systemic issues that people have the right to be angry about, be scared about and fight back against. 

The police, as a ehole are not the problem. Some are, but as a whole it is a very small minority.

The bigger issues are systemic, economic, social biases, education, economic opportunities and so forth.

The problem is, the police "represent " the system as they are the authority figures of this system that are seen by the public everyday. 

Blame bad cops. The cop who killed George Floyd needs to be held accountable. 

This does not mean it makes any sense to blame the police for all these bigger issues.

It is like the bad soldiers at gitmo. Or the soldier that snaps and starts killing innocents.

Assume you are a good cop, with good intentions. A mob of 20 people in your face, threatening you because of what some other idiot cop did.

The anxiety is off the charts. These are human beings. Most of us could not last a day doing what the good cops do.

Society is blowing up. Take out the rule of law and we are done. Abuse the position of power, and we are done.

90% of us support good cops and legitimate protesters. And those people make up the vast majority of our population. 

The problem is with the power hungry cops (a small percent) and the radical rioters on both ends of the political spectrum.

Those are all the media, including social media,  allow us to see. That simply fuels the anger on both sides. Bolstering our already preconceived ideas. It feeds itself.

This thread shows this to br true. I have read many posts (on both sides) here from people I have tremendous respect for. I watch it get more and more personal and vitriolic to where I cringe just to read it.

When smart, readonable people lose the ability to see both sides, recognize flaws in both sides, then what you fear (bad cop. Viscious rioters etc) is what you become.

Then we lock into our side and slowly radicalize ourself.

It is sad and complicated. But too many of us have all the answers and our side is always right.

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A few pages back in this conversation, the topic of how posters would handle it if their child was shot while committing a crime. The responses, which I agree with, was that the posters would not blame the person who did the shooting, instead would be upset/disappointed with the child for creating the situation. One poster said that he would be upset with himself for not doing a better job of parenting the child.

These responses to me, point to a crux of the response by protesters who have gotten out of control--personal accountability. It seems that there are a lot, not trying to characterize here, but a lot of people who feel justified in being outraged. Outrage out of what happened in Minnesota is understandable, appropriate, and should be protested. Using that outrage as justification to become violent and/or damaging property is not acceptable. Unfortunately, one of the negative aspects of social media is used as a platform to quickly foment that outrage to a large number of people. Unfortunately, some of those people feel justified that there are no limits to what they should be allowed to do to express that outrage. 

I agree that this is mainly the far extremes on both ends are the instigators. I also know there are some very level headed people on both sides, community leaders, civic leaders, clergy, and everyday people, who do believe in personal accountability, and do believe in sitting down and rationally discussing/planning and implementing strategies that will improve our communities. Let them do their work. Give them an opportunity to do what they are in place to do, instead of having to clean up the messes created by those who lack the ability to respond in other than productive ways. 

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9 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Wow. Prime example of an off-the-cuff remark that could heat up the divisive rhetoric on here, Admin.

I was referring to a mob of people pulling me by my hair,  I would fear for my life and shoot. Not saying it is right, just saying how I would react in the moment. 

This is the problem. I am just being honest. We expect everybody to be so well thought out at a time where nothing is rational. It is all emotional and fear.

I will bow out now since being an admin means I should not speak honestly about how hard it would be for me to be rational in that situation.

It illustrates why I should not be in law enforcement,  I admit that. It also illustrates that we should appreciate the good cops that do show jugemrnt that I admittedly could not.

Just like appreciating good protestors as we watch the bad ones victimize innocent people.

This is not so cut and dry.

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7 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

This concept pops up periodically.  Robert Johnson, billionaire from BET, calls for $14 trillion in reparations.  

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/01/bets-robert-johnson-calls-for-14-trillion-of-reparations-for-slavery.html

Even if you think it is a noble theoretical idea, I don’t see it as practical or ever a serious consideration.  

There would definitely be massive challenges to implementation. I would definitely interested in seeing some more detailed proposals for how it might work. No commitment beyond that.

I read a book - don't recall the title - back during Bush II that described a program where the government would provide each child (or each child born into poverty perhaps) with  $500 in an investment account that could not be accessed unless for a major life investment starting at 18 (something like college, purchase of a home, etc). There's obviously significant distinctions between the two ideas, but I'm just interested to know what ideas are out there for how to deliver these suggestions.

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Good post, Bluegrass.  I agree with almost all of it.  I posted earlier that my interactions with cops have been good.  Whenever there is a problem, who are any one of us going to call, of course it’s the cops to come help.  We should not forget that and respect them for that.  As you covered, there are systemic issues that need changed.  To me, that includes a number of things in the structure of police departments.   

On the other hand, I support the protesters but I sure don’t support the looting.  You’ve got mom and pop stores getting hit.  We are talking about people who put their lives into these stores.  To this day, I support a number of smaller stores and restaurants over the big boys who might be cheaper or more convenient.  Even if the looting is of a major corporation, how does that help anything?  That cost is passed onto the consumer so the next time you see a Target in flames, we will pay for it one way or another.  

I don’t think the protesters are the looters.  They are opportunists.  I will leave it there but I much harsher thoughts in mind.  

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I would commend all the posters in this thread and throughout this forum. It would be so easy for a post on this topic to devolve into a virtual shouting, name-calling match. I see civil dialogue and debate here. I find it refreshing compared to some of the lack of respect and one sidedness in so many other sites.

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