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Racial tensions

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Trump had great remarks on the tragedy today at the Kennedy Space Center. Asking the AG and the Justice Dept to expedite the investigation.  

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39 minutes ago, JaybobHoosier said:

Just curious why my Christianity and view point casts me as a racist? Because I use my Christianity to live a Christian life and be a better person and want to make the world a better place? I guess I don’t understand at all how I’m racist for my religious beliefs? When did being an outgoing Christian become racism? 
 

God and Jesus were about love and compassion, so even if they don’t exist, why is that a bad thing to live by? If I didn’t believe in Christianity but still had the same views, am I a racist? I guess I don’t get where you are coming from saying I’m a racist by being a Christian. 
 

If you are saying I’m a racist and shouldn’t be Christian because you don’t think I am, then what makes you better than the Jews that Jesus corrected? I share a different view point because I acknowledge racism, but believe we all need to look at ourselves  to help fix a lot of issues going on in the world. We can take this to direct messages here not to take this thread off the rails.

Just because I don’t agree with looting, rioting, and also that I struggle to fully support “BlackLivesMatters” motto, doesn’t make me racist. 

Again Jaybob, as a fellow Christian, I agree with you!! But you need to understand, coming at people like you know God and anybody who disagrees with you, well?? Let's just say I have no hope of helping my Muslim friend with an attitude like yours!

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1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

Jaybob, I whole heartedly agree with what you posted!! But I as a fellow Christian who has been on international mission trips, have to call you out! Claiming your Christianity is just another form of racism! I have a good friend who survived the genocide of misguided Serbian Christians that sought to kill all Muslims in Kosovo! He and I have had many conversations and one thing we most whole heartedly agree upon, there is a higher presence! You need to ratchet down your Hollier than though presence and understand that you are a racist!    

Love you Brother, and I mean it!

You know what, it’s all good brother. Your post bothered and really confused me but it’s all good. We all have our opinions. I’m at home playing with my 3 year old son having a blast, loving every second of it. No need to let anything bother me, I’m enjoying some quality time with my two young boys and amazing wife to let this bother me.

Love ya brother! 

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1 minute ago, Drroogh said:

Again Jaybob, as a fellow Christian, I agree with you!! But you need to understand, coming at people like you know God and anybody who disagrees with you, well?? Let's just say I have no hope of helping my Muslim friend with an attitude like yours!

With this being a message board I guess it’s hard to truly get to know ones character. I had a great conversation with a good friend of mine who is a homosexual. This person knows I’m very religious but to this day I’ve never told him if I agree or disagree, but that I care for him and told him regardless of what I believe, I could be wrong so there’s no point in me judging him. Me point out my Christian beliefs was about spreading love and compassion. If anyone on here believes in God or not, I hope they have love and compassion for others. 
 

All good my friend :)

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Just now, JaybobHoosier said:

You know what, it’s all good brother. Your post bothered and really confused me but it’s all good. We all have our opinions. I’m at home playing with my 3 year old son having a blast, loving every second of it. No need to let anything bother me, I’m enjoying some quality time with my two young boys and amazing wife to let this bother me.

Love ya brother! 

Have to admit, coming home this week after spending some time with my grandsons is to put it mildly, well let's just leave it at that!

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1 minute ago, Drroogh said:

Have to admit, coming home this week after spending some time with my grandsons is to put it mildly, well let's just leave it at that!

Haha, trust me, it’s been difficult at times being home a lot more with my family. I’m not the most patient person in the world, but it’s been a blessing. I will greatly miss it once things get back to I guess a normal.... or new normal. I really hope we can get a HSN tailgate for football going this year or next, would love to meet so many people on here.

Last time we did it, it was so much fun! Miss hanging with Colonial and Natty!

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My experience with police has been nothing but positive.  They have a tough job and I respect them.  They’ve helped me.  Same with firemen.  I’d be remiss though not to point out the obvious that I’m also not a black guy and can’t address how they feel.  Without data, my guess is only a very few are bad guys. 

But one thing I think would help is to have the other cops and particularly leadership stand up after an incident and be vocal that the bad cops who have killed needlessly do not represent them.  Speak out against them.  If they are law and order guys, well this is an egregious breach of that so it follows that they should be offended.  Closing ranks just gives a worse impression.  Also, the unions make it difficult to remove the bad cops.  That dipstick in Minnesota should not have had a badge.  He’s depraved.  

This has always been a problem but it’s become a more acute crisis in the past decade due to filming what has always been a reality.  Yet, it’s not getting better.  That’s a problem.  Steps need to be taken to fix the problem.  My perspective is the overwhelming  majority of cops are probably good but it only takes a handful to erode public confidence.  The fact that this isn’t getting better is a major problem.  Stand up, speak up, and develop changes so this is minimized.   

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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4 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

My experience with police has been nothing but positive.  They have a tough job and I respect them.  They’ve helped me.  Same with firemen.  I’d be remiss though not to point out the obvious that I’m also not a black guy and can’t address how they feel.  Without data, my guess is only a very few are bad guys. 

But one thing I think would help is to have the other cops and particularly leadership stand up after an incident and be vocal that the bad cops who have killed needlessly do not represent them.  Speak out against them.  If they are law and order guys, well this is egregious breach of that so it follows that they should be offended.  Closing ranks just gives a worse impression.  Also, the unions make it difficult to remove the bad cops.  That dipstick in Minnesota should not have had a badge.  He’s depraved.  

This has always been a problem but it’s become a more acute crisis in the past decade due to filming what has always been a reality.  Yet, it’s not getting better.  That’s a problem.  Steps need to be taken to fix the problem.  My perspective is the overwhelming  majority of cops are probably good but it only takes a handful to erode public confidence.  The fact that this isn’t getting better is a major problem.  Stand up, speak up, and develop changes so this is minimized.   

Agreed! All the cops I know and that are family members are amazing people with amazing police records. However, there needs to be more accountability in leadership and not helping fellow cops who are bad. 

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9 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

My experience with police has been nothing but positive.  They have a tough job and I respect them.  They’ve helped me.  Same with firemen.  I’d be remiss though not to point out the obvious that I’m also not a black guy and can’t address how they feel.  Without data, my guess is only a very few are bad guys. 

But one thing I think would help is to have the other cops and particularly leadership stand up after an incident and be vocal that the bad cops who have killed needlessly do not represent them.  Speak out against them.  If they are law and order guys, well this is an egregious breach of that so it follows that they should be offended.  Closing ranks just gives a worse impression.  Also, the unions make it difficult to remove the bad cops.  That dipstick in Minnesota should not have had a badge.  He’s depraved.  

This has always been a problem but it’s become a more acute crisis in the past decade due to filming what has always been a reality.  Yet, it’s not getting better.  That’s a problem.  Steps need to be taken to fix the problem.  My perspective is the overwhelming  majority of cops are probably good but it only takes a handful to erode public confidence.  The fact that this isn’t getting better is a major problem.  Stand up, speak up, and develop changes so this is minimized.   

I think this is downplaying the problem with police substantially. There have been studies that show 40% of police are domestic abusers; hard to make a case that they're good people. 

So we have a system with many bad apples and the good apples covering for the bad apples; maybe you want to pick out the good apples from that bunch but I'm personally more inclined to just conclude it's a bad bunch. 

Cops don't protect and serve the general populace, they protect and serve themselves and a very specific subset of the populace. They carry out bad, racist laws and are the arbitors of an unjust system. Even the "good" cops are choosing to participate in a system where they protect the bad ones and carry out the injustice that is the United States criminal justice system. 

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19 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think this is downplaying the problem with police substantially. There have been studies that show 40% of police are domestic abusers; hard to make a case that they're good people. 

So we have a system with many bad apples and the good apples covering for the bad apples; maybe you want to pick out the good apples from that bunch but I'm personally more inclined to just conclude it's a bad bunch. 

Cops don't protect and serve the general populace, they protect and serve themselves and a very specific subset of the populace. They carry out bad, racist laws and are the arbitors of an unjust system. Even the "good" cops are choosing to participate in a system where they protect the bad ones and carry out the injustice that is the United States criminal justice system. 

I wouldn’t say I’m downplaying it because I accept that police departments need to make structural changes.  There are obviously often some problems with their hiring and training practices as well their ability to interact.  The departments probably should test emotional intelligence better both in hiring and retention.  Some cops, I think, just love the power they get.  Minority neighborhoods should get predominantly minority policemen.  I’ve heard who you know (e.g., family members) can get you hired.  None of these are good things.  

Unions need to think in a more enlightened way.  They think in the most caveman, simplistic way that they need to protect everybody from a firing at the most granular level.  Yet you have a depraved guy with a whopping 18 complaints allowed to continue and then kill somebody.  If the union were smart, they’d work with management to root out the bad cops because they besmirch the reputation of the majority and make the job that much harder due to eroded confidence in them.  

I don’t think this truly gets better until management on both the department side and the union side accept there are structural problems and get committed to fixing it.  

The very first day I moved into my suburb (I hadn’t even spent the night yet), I got pulled over for speeding.  I was contrite and told the cop I was literally moving in.  He laughed it off in an almost apologetic way and gave me a warning.  Since then, I try not to speed on the road.  Win-win.  But, if I were black, I might have had a totally different experience.  

 

Edited by BobSaccamanno
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A little dated but still relevant.

Police Departments lower admission standards

Not intending to bash cops, but it isn't that desirable of a job anymore and police departments across the country have been lowering standards for admissions.  Also really hard to fire cops because of police unions.  And they lack adequate mental help.

Have had several friends from high school become city cops, not because they had an innate desire to do it, but because it was available and easy for them to get into.  

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Well, the violence has spread to Brooklyn, and specifically Prospect Park...

Hope @Lostin76 and family are safe... 

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9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Well, the violence has spread to Brooklyn, and specifically Prospect Park...

Hope @Lostin76 and family are safe... 

Hey man, we are relaxed and just came in from our terrace. We had planned on taking a walk, but can hear all the sirens and helicopters circling overhead. So we are just hanging out with our two dogs. Not going outside tonight at all.

We are kind of smack dab in the middle of all of this. We are two blocks from Fort Greene, where last night happened. About four blocks from Flatbush Avenue and the Barclays Center where the protests were today and last night. Prospect Park is actually a little further away - like 7 or 8 blocks.

There's just a LOT of tension here between NYPD and most citizens, regardless of color. It's been brewing for some time. We've been worried all day. I would like to think that both sides will keep cool, but not exactly hopeful.

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2 hours ago, Reacher said:

MN gov said in a press conference that up to 80% of rioters may be from out of state.

AG Bill Barr saying extremist groups behind the protests.

Be clear, there are two different things going on here. Peaceful protesters are being hijacked by extremist antifa types. 

I've been seeing this all day too. I think they said 80% arrested were from out of state and it was a coordinated effort to "get their loot on" according to online posts. I've been reading that they see a different tenor/racial makeup of the crowd and different types of masks to hide faces compared to the early protests.

That I do not support at all. It bastardizes the grievances that people may have been feeling. Not cool. 

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The 2pm rally in Fort Wayne got tear gassed. I don't have a great feeling about how the evening will go. I have a friend who attended both protests. The one yesterday at least started out peaceful but then went downhill. From what I could see of today's event, it seemed to start peacefully as well. So not sure what the flash point today was. My friend is safely home so I am thankful for that.

Our mayor mentioned that last night a lot of the troublemakers were from out of town. Makes sense to me. In the time I have lived in Fort Wayne there have been numerous protests downtown for various reasons over the years and those never resulted in violence and this kind of police response. 

It is still completely surreal to me that this is happening here. 2020 is a year I will never forget for all the wrong reasons! 

 

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1 minute ago, bronkonagurski said:

The 2pm rally in Fort Wayne got tear gassed. I don't have a great feeling about how the evening will go. I have a friend who attended both protests. The one yesterday at least started out peaceful but then went downhill. From what I could see of today's event, it seemed to start peacefully as well. So not sure what the flash point today was. My friend is safely home so I am thankful for that.

Our mayor mentioned that last night a lot of the troublemakers were from out of town. Makes sense to me. In the time I have lived in Fort Wayne there have been numerous protests downtown for various reasons over the years and those never resulted in violence and this kind of police response. 

It is still completely surreal to me that this is happening here. 2020 is a year I will never forget for all the wrong reasons! 

 

I was born in 1968 - often called "the year that shook the world." Am telling  you, 2020 is looking pretty damn shaky.

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27 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

I've been seeing this all day too. I think they said 80% arrested were from out of state and it was a coordinated effort to "get their loot on" according to online posts. I've been reading that they see a different tenor/racial makeup of the crowd and different types of masks to hide faces compared to the early protests.

That I do not support at all. It bastardizes the grievances that people may have been feeling. Not cool. 

The governor needs to relook at the figures...

86% are Minnesotans...

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Totally unscientific on my part.  But, from what I saw flipping the local Louisville TV channels last night a large percentage, maybe up to 50%, of the people that were looting and vandalizing were white.  

I work in downtown Louisville, at least when Covid-19 is not here, so the wife and I were curious and drove down there early this afternoon.  Absolutely disgusting and disheartening what was done 

Breaking the law is breaking the law.  Doesn't matter if you are black or white.  You should be punished.  But, it also doesn't matter if you do it while 'protesting', whether you just like vandalizing things, or are just a kid who did it on a dare.  You should be punished.  If I walked out of work one day, walked down the street to the T-Mobile store, smashed the windows out, and made off with all the merchandise, I would be arrested and go to jail.  The police in Louisville allowed that to happen last night and did nothing about it.   That's unacceptable, regardless of the situation.  The Louisville police made a total of 6 arrests last night.  6 arrests when virtually every building in the downtown are was vandalized in some manner.

 

 

 

Edited by 5fouls
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2 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

My experience with police has been nothing but positive.  They have a tough job and I respect them.  They’ve helped me.  Same with firemen.  I’d be remiss though not to point out the obvious that I’m also not a black guy and can’t address how they feel.  Without data, my guess is only a very few are bad guys. 

But one thing I think would help is to have the other cops and particularly leadership stand up after an incident and be vocal that the bad cops who have killed needlessly do not represent them.  Speak out against them.  If they are law and order guys, well this is an egregious breach of that so it follows that they should be offended.  Closing ranks just gives a worse impression.  Also, the unions make it difficult to remove the bad cops.  That dipstick in Minnesota should not have had a badge.  He’s depraved.  

This has always been a problem but it’s become a more acute crisis in the past decade due to filming what has always been a reality.  Yet, it’s not getting better.  That’s a problem.  Steps need to be taken to fix the problem.  My perspective is the overwhelming  majority of cops are probably good but it only takes a handful to erode public confidence.  The fact that this isn’t getting better is a major problem.  Stand up, speak up, and develop changes so this is minimized.   

One that that bothers me is that the upper echelons of the Chicago Police are largely all clouted. They get "merit" promotions and you end up with very poor quality as a result. And many instances where they should have been fired (like the MN officer?) but their connections keep them around. And to top it off, they get outrageous pensions. If there wasn't such abuse at the top, the average cop wouldn't suffer as much. 

Edited by Reacher
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21 minutes ago, Reacher said:

One that that bothers me is that the upper echelons of the Chicago Police are largely all clouted. They get "merit" promotions and you end up with very poor quality as a result. And many instances where they should have been fired (like the MN officer?) but their connections keep them around. And to top it off, they get outrageous pensions. If there wasn't such abuse at the top, the average cop wouldn't suffer as much. 

Denver issued a curfew for 8 p.m today.  Which they claim to strictly enforce.  Have been watching for the past two hours. Now. It is just past 8 p.m.  Protestors have set up a line. And the police have brought in teams of swat members.  And the police are now advancing on the protestors.  Earlier, I saw people taken away in ambulances.

Edited by milehiiu

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38 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Denver issued a curfew for 8 p.m today.  Which they claim to strictly enforce.  Have been watching for the past two hours. Now. It is just past 8 p.m.  Protestors have set up a line. And the police have brought in teams of swat members.  And the police are now advancing on the protestors.  Earlier, I saw people taken away in ambulances.

8pm.. go home or be arrested. It's simply not that difficult. 

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17 minutes ago, btownqb said:

8pm.. go home or be arrested. It's simply not that difficult. 

At the same time, I'd think anyone who protested the measures taken to prevent the spread of COVID would have extreme issue with a curfew. 

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