Jump to content

Does the B1G need to be fixed? How?


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I'd agree. I don't consider Painter to be an exceptional coach, he's not a championship-contending coach (imo), but his track record is above-average.

Well Kevin Ollie won a championship so you don't have to even be elite to win a championship

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 96
  • Created
  • Last Reply
2 hours ago, tdhoosier said:

From a recruiting standpoint - Top 20 recruits the B1G has gotten in the last 10 years:

2020: none
2021: none
2018: Romeo and Jalen Smith
2017: Jaren Jackson
2016: Miles Bridges
2015: Diamond Stone and Thomas Bryant
2014: JBJ
2013: Noah Vonleh
2012: Sam Dekker and Yogi
2011: Cody and Branden Dawsen

Not saying top 20 recruits are the end all be all, but that's 12 out of 200 players or .06% of top 20 recruits available. On the flip side, it says a lot about the strength of our coaching and programs. 
 

And from a recruiting standpoint, that's a pretty high percentage of the B1G top 20 for IU -- 6 of 12, 50%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That's 6% for my math major friends, not .06%. The point still stands though. Athletic, dynamic players don't want to be clobbered by some Wisconsin goon while a ref stands there swallowing his whistle.

Here is the BIG officiating formula in a nutshell:

1) No-calls on hard fouls for the first 8-12 minutes of a half.

2) The "Oh sh&$ we haven't called anything" over correction to calling a bunch of ticky-tack fouls for the next 8-12 minutes so teams get into the bonus .

3) The over correction to all the ticky-tack fouls, back to calling nothing the last 1-2 minutes.

It's maddening because the same refs who call Big Ten games will then work an ACC game and have a totally different, evenhanded approach. 

haha. ooops. 

But considering that power 5 conferences get a vast majority, if not all of these players, we should be a bit closer to 15-20%. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

And from a recruiting standpoint, that's a pretty high percentage of the B1G top 20 for IU -- 6 of 12, 50%.

it’s pretty much all IU and MSU except for the 2 from Maryland and 1 from Wisconsin.

Top ten looks even worse for the B1G. Only Romeo was top 5. And the last top 5 recruit before him, you’ll have to go all the way back to Eric Gordon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.espn.c.om/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

I guess I will put this here because it shows even though we might not have an elite team but we have a lot of good teams.  In the latest bracket Lunardi put out today it has the big ten with the most teams at 9.  He also moved IU up to a 6 seed in this bracket and kind of surprised since we lost Smith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

it’s pretty much all IU and MSU except for the 2 from Maryland and 1 from Wisconsin.

Top ten looks even worse for the B1G. Only Romeo was top 5. And the last top 5 recruit before him, you’ll have to go all the way back to Eric Gordon. 

That's pretty wild all things considered, including how many great players have come out of IN and the surrounding states. 

The B1G is a great conference, but it is a slug fest almost every year. I don't have the stats on pace of play by conference, but I would think the B1G is not one of the faster paced conferences. That's probably in play here, but again I haven't checked it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I don't disagree. But I was just talking about Painter's overall record, imo, it's above-average, regardless of the championship point

I guess I did not make my point clear is that you cant just base a coach on if they have won a championship.  There are plenty of really good coaches who has not even been to a final four let alone a championship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

http://www.espn.c.om/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

I guess I will put this here because it shows even though we might not have an elite team but we have a lot of good teams.  In the latest bracket Lunardi put out today it has the big ten with the most teams at 9.  He also moved IU up to a 6 seed in this bracket and kind of surprised since we lost Smith.

Well Lunardi is an idiot, so...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, IU Scott said:

I guess I did not make my point clear is that you cant just base a coach on if they have won a championship.  There are plenty of really good coaches who has not even been to a final four let alone a championship.

I never said you should. Maybe you're thinking of someone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

That's pretty wild all things considered, including how many great players have come out of IN and the surrounding states. 

The B1G is a great conference, but it is a slug fest almost every year. I don't have the stats on pace of play by conference, but I would think the B1G is not one of the faster paced conferences. That's probably in play here, but again I haven't checked it.

I thought Swanigan of Purdue was a top 20 player and I thought Thomas Bryant was ranked in the 30's

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From my perspective, on the recruiting front,  I think the biggest thing is that, as a general rule, Big Ten programs do not get as dirty as schools in other conferences.  The conference is not landing as many top 25 recruits or sending as many to the NBA because UK, Duke, Kansas, UNC, Louisville, etc. are going the extra mile to land those recruits.

That said, there are still ways to build top programs, and the B1G has had it's chance to win Championships, but just not sealed the deal.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, 5fouls said:

From my perspective, on the recruiting front,  I think the biggest thing is that, as a general rule, Big Ten programs do not get as dirty as schools in other conferences.  The conference is not landing as many top 25 recruits or sending as many to the NBA because UK, Duke, Kansas, UNC, Louisville, etc. are going the extra mile to land those recruits.

That said, there are still ways to build top programs, and the B1G has had it's chance to win Championships, but just not sealed the deal.  

Totally agree with you on that point.  I remember time after time when Crean was here where it looked like we were on a verge of a big commitment but at the last moment they went elsewhere.  Thinking back on it Crean always talked like something happened that caused us not to get certain recruits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I thought Swanigan of Purdue was a top 20 player and I thought Thomas Bryant was ranked in the 30's

Tdhoosier posted his list of top 20 ranked players. I don't remember where he ended up but Swanigan was ranked in the top 20 during his recruitment, not sure if he dropped, you can ask tdhoosier. ESPN had Bryant at #20, and Rivals had him top 25-27 or so, not 30s. Guess it depends on the source. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

From my perspective, on the recruiting front,  I think the biggest thing is that, as a general rule, Big Ten programs do not get as dirty as schools in other conferences.  The conference is not landing as many top 25 recruits or sending as many to the NBA because UK, Duke, Kansas, UNC, Louisville, etc. are going the extra mile to land those recruits.

That said, there are still ways to build top programs, and the B1G has had it's chance to win Championships, but just not sealed the deal.  

I think that's a fair point. Schools like KU, Louisville, etc. cheat in recruiting, whereas most B1G teams are not in that discussion. Don't believe the B1G is clean, I'm sure there is some dirty laundry out there, but not like a number of other conferences (as you said, as dirty).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Tdhoosier posted his list of top 20 ranked players. I don't remember where he ended up but Swanigan was ranked in the top 20 during his recruitment, not sure if he dropped, you can ask tdhoosier. ESPN had Bryant at #20, and Rivals had him top 25-27 or so, not 30s. Guess it depends on the source. 

I went off of 24/7 rankings. Bryant was exactly 20. 

I might’ve missed Swanigan the first time around, but they have him at 19. change that to 13 top 20 recruits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I think that's a fair point. Schools like KU, Louisville, etc. cheat in recruiting, whereas most B1G teams are not in that discussion. Don't believe the B1G is clean, I'm sure there is some dirty laundry out there, but not like a number of other conferences (as you said, as dirty).

Yeah, not saying the B1G is crystal clean, but not seeing where any B1G schools would be buying houses, offering 6 figures in cash, or offering a degree in fake classes.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Totally agree with you on that point.  I remember time after time when Crean was here where it looked like we were on a verge of a big commitment but at the last moment they went elsewhere.  Thinking back on it Crean always talked like something happened that caused us not to get certain recruits.

Yes there were several recruits where he intimated something was hinky, he came close on a couple of occasions to outright calling foul, and I don't remember particulars, but there were at least a couple where the dirty laundry came out later. One thing I've always appreciated about IU (Sampson phone-gate aside) is that the program has always been clean and (again Sampson aside) has been pretty strong on academics and graduating.

It's harder, generally, to compete at the top when you're not cheating and bringing in ineligible players (go back and look at Boheim's record of infractions for ineligible players, for example, flat out thumbed his nose at academic eligibility, dude was flat out dirty).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes there were several recruits where he intimated something was hinky, he came close on a couple of occasions to outright calling foul, and I don't remember particulars, but there were at least a couple where the dirty laundry came out later. One thing I've always appreciated about IU (Sampson phone-gate aside) is that the program has always been clean and (again Sampson aside) has been pretty strong on academics and graduating.

It's harder, generally, to compete at the top when you're not cheating and bringing in ineligible players (go back and look at Boheim's record of infractions for ineligible players, for example, flat out thumbed his nose at academic eligibility, dude was flat out dirty).

One a few years back I remember was Bruce Brown who we thought was coming here but went to Miami.  Later we found out Miami was part of the FBI investigation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Stlboiler23 said:

Don’t think Painter belongs in that category with Fran, Chambers, Gard, and Turgeon. If he’s only considered average at best, only a small handful of coaches in college basketball are above average. I know I’m biased but Painter is above average IMO. 

A quote from one of my favorite movies 'Riddick'

"Is it true that half the people you meet are less than average intelligence?"

Not a stab at you Boiler just agreeing with you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I just wanted to torture.myself tonight so I watched the 92 final four game against Duke.  I just wanted to see if my recollection about the refs were accurate or was I just bias.  During most of the first half it appeared I might have just let my bias cloud my memory.  The first 13 minutes Duke had 10 fouls to our 4 and we were up 12. We really lost the game the last 5 minutes of the half being outscored 12-5. Watching the second half made me remember how bad the refs were especially TV Teddy.

The second half we were called for 22 fouls to their 8.  For the game they shot 20 more free throws than we did. Thought we would win the game when we held Laettner to probably his worst game of his career.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...