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3 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

From my perspective, the Kansas St players are giving the fool exactly what he wants, attention.  If they didn't boycott we wouldn't know anything about this.  Whatever happened to simply ignoring other people.  I do it everyday.

"Reverse" discrimination is what could be construed.

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36 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I’m reminded of the Nazi case in Skokie.  Nazis were allowed under the first amendment to march through Skokie, Illinois, which has a considerable Jewish population. 

Kansas State as a state school might have the same problem.  The punk kid could make that argument.  The football players are free to boycott but I don’t know if the state can put in the policy to prevent the loser from speaking out on Twitter.  They could prevent actions beyond speech, but presumably they already do.  

While a corporation is allowed to have policies, they are not a state actor.  The first amendment requires attachment to the government.   Here, you have a state university.  That could lead to a complication unless a court could navigate around this.  I don’t specialize in this by any stretch of the imagination so maybe somebody in that realm can devise a creative work around.  

Purdue just expelled a kid for an extreme online post. KState may or may not want to go to that route to make sure everyone in their community knows that such views are offensive, but I’ll bet the people at Mizzou wish they’d taken more decisive action against some hateful activity a few years ago. Not sure an immediate threat of a boycott is the best way to start the process, but being quiet or just ignoring stuff like this is one way it takes root.  

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1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said:

From my perspective, the Kansas St players are giving the fool exactly what he wants, attention.  If they didn't boycott we wouldn't know anything about this.  Whatever happened to simply ignoring other people.  I do it everyday.

100%

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14 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Whatever happened to the idea that people can have different beliefs but can still work towards the same goal? 

 

Days gone by my friend...

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10 minutes ago, DireBump said:

There has got to be more than smoke to these stories.  There are so many players who have spoken out about it, and a lot of high profile players too.  This isn't just guys who are disgruntled about playing time.

Wadley's accounts are probably the most damning of Kirk Ferentz as well.

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This is one of the 3 people from the firm Iowa hired for an internal investigation.  After how they've handled this, I hope Ferentz and the whole university go down.  Their fan comments on Twitter are disgraceful too.  Iowa is quickly closing in on the group of MSU, PSU, and OSU...and not in a good way.

Quote below is from the linked article.  There is a lot more damning info about her acts at MSU too.  Seems like a good person to do an independent investigation.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/05/10/michigan-state-university-william-strampel/590146002/

Zayko won't be in her position for much longer. MSU confirmed Thursday after the Free Press inquired about it that Zayko resigned her position last week as the school's top lawyer and will take a job in the private sector. There's no end date set for when Zayko will step down.

Zayko's resignation comes as two board members — Dianne Byrum and Brian Mosallam — told the Free Press she should leave. They say Zayko knew about complaints against Strampel and Nassar and never brought them to the attention of the board, whom she regularly briefed on issues.

"The fact that Kristine Zayko was aware of the 2014 Nassar investigation and Strampel's history since 2005 and yet never elevated either to the board is very troubling," Mosallam told the Free Press earlier this week before Zayko's resignation was known. "I believe Kristine Zayko should do what is right for MSU and immediately step down as acting general counsel. I have zero confidence in her ability to properly advise this university. We need someone from the outside with a different mindset and approach to be MSU's acting general counsel."

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15 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

There has got to be more than smoke to these stories.  There are so many players who have spoken out about it, and a lot of high profile players too.  This isn't just guys who are disgruntled about playing time.

Wadley's accounts are probably the most damning of Kirk Ferentz as well.

Definitely more smoke building. Bigger names than Ferentz have been removed with things that started off small. We know that better than anyone. Certainly will be something to keep an eye on for sure.

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17 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

This is one of the 3 people from the firm Iowa hired for an internal investigation.  After how they've handled this, I hope Ferentz and the whole university go down.  Their fan comments on Twitter are disgraceful too.  Iowa is quickly closing in on the group of MSU, PSU, and OSU...and not in a good way.

Quote below is from the linked article.  There is a lot more damning info about her acts at MSU too.  Seems like a good person to do an independent investigation.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/05/10/michigan-state-university-william-strampel/590146002/

Zayko won't be in her position for much longer. MSU confirmed Thursday after the Free Press inquired about it that Zayko resigned her position last week as the school's top lawyer and will take a job in the private sector. There's no end date set for when Zayko will step down.

Zayko's resignation comes as two board members — Dianne Byrum and Brian Mosallam — told the Free Press she should leave. They say Zayko knew about complaints against Strampel and Nassar and never brought them to the attention of the board, whom she regularly briefed on issues.

"The fact that Kristine Zayko was aware of the 2014 Nassar investigation and Strampel's history since 2005 and yet never elevated either to the board is very troubling," Mosallam told the Free Press earlier this week before Zayko's resignation was known. "I believe Kristine Zayko should do what is right for MSU and immediately step down as acting general counsel. I have zero confidence in her ability to properly advise this university. We need someone from the outside with a different mindset and approach to be MSU's acting general counsel."

I think you have to let this shake out a little bit. Sounds like Brian Ferentz is a jerk, just like the S&C guy. Using racial stereotypes, even if you’re joking, does not cut it. The meal stuff is common, either on the “gain weight” or “lose weight” side. And some players always feel put upon by the coach. I was around an IU player and one of his parents at a graduation party and in a group of people they really unloaded on the coach. He’s a fake, his public side is different than his team side, he’s a jerk who rides certain players and has favorites, he makes his position coaches do all the dirty work and he claims credit publicly, he makes playing decisions based on favoritism, etc. Not ranting and raving but more chit chat, but definitely with an edge. The definition of a disgruntled player and little league parent (it was the mom) and soon to be a former player. The coach? Terry Hoeppner.

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10 minutes ago, Sark said:

I think you have to let this shake out a little bit. Sounds like Brian Ferentz is a jerk, just like the S&C guy. Using racial stereotypes, even if you’re joking, does not cut it. The meal stuff is common, either on the “gain weight” or “lose weight” side. And some players always feel put upon by the coach. I was around an IU player and one of his parents at a graduation party and in a group of people they really unloaded on the coach. He’s a fake, his public side is different than his team side, he’s a jerk who rides certain players and has favorites, he makes his position coaches do all the dirty work and he claims credit publicly, he makes playing decisions based on favoritism, etc. Not ranting and raving but more chit chat, but definitely with an edge. The definition of a disgruntled player and little league parent (it was the mom) and soon to be a former player. The coach? Terry Hoeppner.

I get what you're saying, but it isn't just two random coaches, it is undoubtedly the two coaches Kirk Ferentz trusted the most since he had been with Doyle for so long.  If the two most trusted assistants are doing these things, it is highly unlikely the coach doesn't know.  At a minimum, they feel safe doing those things because of the culture the head coach has created.

And, this isn't just a disgruntled mom.  This is at least a dozen current and former players, with at least one of them currently in the NFL.  Some of these guys don't have any dog in the fight anymore and are still coming out about it.  I don't know if I trust everything Wadley said, but there are plenty of other stories out there.

It is still just in the smoke stage, but there's enough smoke it is getting pretty hard to see.

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I think part of my opinion comes from when I played baseball in college.  I was a pitcher, and our pitching coach was a complete a-hole.  I walked onto the team as a pitcher and shortstop, and he scheduled my bullpens at the same time as the hitting coach scheduled my batting practice.  I ended up only being able to play pitcher, which wasn't that big of a deal since it is hard to play both, but I was a lot better shortstop and never got the chance.

The pitching coach was close to the head coach, and after my first season, the head coach joked with me that the pitching coach said I was either going to be on the team only as a pitcher, or I wouldn't be on the team at all.  During that first season, I was even made to be the batting practice pitcher before our games.  A few times I would throw a couple hundred pitches (not hard obviously) in batting practice, and then have to come into games later that day and pitch.

The pitching coach was in charge of our conditioning too, and some of it was over the top.  Our team got in trouble once, and had 5:30 am practices.  We were going to run with the barbell's from the weight room above our head, and before we started, somebody was turning theirs to set it on its end so they didn't have to hold it while waiting, and the end smoked me in the face.  Put about a 2 inch cut on my cheek that was bleeding everywhere.  Still have a sweet scar haha.  I couldn't do anything that day since I had to go to the health center to get looked at.  The next morning, we had weights on towels on the gym floor, and were pushing them around for conditioning.   We were bent over so our knees couldn't touch, and the blood rushing to my head was causing my cut to bleed and I was getting dizzy (I probably should have had them check for a concussion the day before).  The coach was all over me the whole time.  Just trash talking and being a prick.  Making us do extra because I couldn't do it.  Head coach was there and didn't care one bit.  I get trying to motivate, but it wasn't that.  It was just being an ass and abusing power.

At the start of my 2nd year, I was frustrated about how something went down, and voiced my frustration to the coaches.  They held it over my head for months, and I was kicked off the team the week before we started playing games.  Wasn't our worst pitcher by any stretch of the imagination, but they wanted to send a message.  A couple other guys had issues with how the assistant coach was handling things during the season and they got kicked off too.

We all knew the pitching coach did the stuff he did because the head coach condoned it.  Our hitting coach that year was awesome.  At one point before he got into coaching, he was the top prospect in the Brewer's system, but threw his arm out and wasn't the same.  Super knowledgeable, and a good guy.  He ended up getting the hell out after one season because of the culture there.

There wasn't a chance that most of us would talk to the head coach about things because we knew he was close to the pitching coach.  There was nobody we could go to without getting in trouble.

After I left, a new head coach came in, and told the pitching coach to take a hike for his antics.  99% of the time, stuff like this with assistants doesn't happen with a head coach who has instilled a culture of respect.  It happens because the coach is similar to the guys doing the abusing.

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1 hour ago, Leathernecks said:

I get what you're saying, but it isn't just two random coaches, it is undoubtedly the two coaches Kirk Ferentz trusted the most since he had been with Doyle for so long.  If the two most trusted assistants are doing these things, it is highly unlikely the coach doesn't know.  At a minimum, they feel safe doing those things because of the culture the head coach has created.

And, this isn't just a disgruntled mom.  This is at least a dozen current and former players, with at least one of them currently in the NFL.  Some of these guys don't have any dog in the fight anymore and are still coming out about it.  I don't know if I trust everything Wadley said, but there are plenty of other stories out there.

It is still just in the smoke stage, but there's enough smoke it is getting pretty hard to see.

No disagreement on your views. I think it’s easy for coaches to live in a bubble and become insulated from the outside world. Their jobs are all consuming and many become isolated from what’s happening on the “real” world. Well meaning but tough coaches push buttons on players to get them to work and achieve beyond the levels they thought they could. Bob Knight was legendary for employing what some viewed as rather questionable methods in furtherance of that. Ferentz may have gone down this path of increasing insularity, and at least two of his trusted coaches were right there with him. Bit he’s not in the facility with the S&C guys very often. Easy to see how it happens and easy to see how backhanded comments meant to push step over the line, even if no malice was intended. In today’s world, you simply can’t go there if you’re a white coach talking to a black player. Intent doesn’t matter, as Doyle learned.

i think Ferentz’s retirement clock probably started ticking as a result of all of this. Whether he intended for it to happen this way, he might be looking at his final year in IC. Or, maybe his good outweighs his bad and he gets to stay and fix things. No matter what, I can’t see Brian succeeding him, which many thought he would.

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1 hour ago, Leathernecks said:

I think part of my opinion comes from when I played baseball in college.  I was a pitcher, and our pitching coach was a complete a-hole.  I walked onto the team as a pitcher and shortstop, and he scheduled my bullpens at the same time as the hitting coach scheduled my batting practice.  I ended up only being able to play pitcher, which wasn't that big of a deal since it is hard to play both, but I was a lot better shortstop and never got the chance.

The pitching coach was close to the head coach, and after my first season, the head coach joked with me that the pitching coach said I was either going to be on the team only as a pitcher, or I wouldn't be on the team at all.  During that first season, I was even made to be the batting practice pitcher before our games.  A few times I would throw a couple hundred pitches (not hard obviously) in batting practice, and then have to come into games later that day and pitch.

The pitching coach was in charge of our conditioning too, and some of it was over the top.  Our team got in trouble once, and had 5:30 am practices.  We were going to run with the barbell's from the weight room above our head, and before we started, somebody was turning theirs to set it on its end so they didn't have to hold it while waiting, and the end smoked me in the face.  Put about a 2 inch cut on my cheek that was bleeding everywhere.  Still have a sweet scar haha.  I couldn't do anything that day since I had to go to the health center to get looked at.  The next morning, we had weights on towels on the gym floor, and were pushing them around for conditioning.   We were bent over so our knees couldn't touch, and the blood rushing to my head was causing my cut to bleed and I was getting dizzy (I probably should have had them check for a concussion the day before).  The coach was all over me the whole time.  Just trash talking and being a prick.  Making us do extra because I couldn't do it.  Head coach was there and didn't care one bit.  I get trying to motivate, but it wasn't that.  It was just being an ass and abusing power.

At the start of my 2nd year, I was frustrated about how something went down, and voiced my frustration to the coaches.  They held it over my head for months, and I was kicked off the team the week before we started playing games.  Wasn't our worst pitcher by any stretch of the imagination, but they wanted to send a message.  A couple other guys had issues with how the assistant coach was handling things during the season and they got kicked off too.

We all knew the pitching coach did the stuff he did because the head coach condoned it.  Our hitting coach that year was awesome.  At one point before he got into coaching, he was the top prospect in the Brewer's system, but threw his arm out and wasn't the same.  Super knowledgeable, and a good guy.  He ended up getting the hell out after one season because of the culture there.

There wasn't a chance that most of us would talk to the head coach about things because we knew he was close to the pitching coach.  There was nobody we could go to without getting in trouble.

After I left, a new head coach came in, and told the pitching coach to take a hike for his antics.  99% of the time, stuff like this with assistants doesn't happen with a head coach who has instilled a culture of respect.  It happens because the coach is similar to the guys doing the abusing.

Thanks for the great remembrance. My athletic “career” ended in high school, but every coach I had was a variation on the controlling guy that your coach and Ferentz and plenty of them are. But none of them knew everything that went on, thankfully. There were “good guy” assistants and jerks and head coaches that were all of those things, but none knew everything, ever. And they talked, but there were some things held in confidence, too. The best we’re guys that fostered a real team atmosphere. The worst were the Knight wannabes who got lazy on the stuff that mattered.

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I must have missed this when it happened, or forgot about it by now, but I didn’t realize we had a really good walk on kicker coming in this year. Chris Freeman was the Gatorade player of the year in indiana in soccer. He was ranked the #9 kicker in the class by Kohls kicking. Campbell was #6 in his class.

Freeman had some D1 interest, and offers from Indiana State and Army. I wondered who our backup kicker might be as sometimes they can be really valuable (PU game this year).

 

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Thanks, Leather.  I missed that too.  Competition is always important at all positions IMO.  

By the way, I’m curious about your pitching. What would be the scouting report on your repertoire?  Throw hard?  Off speed? Control?

Playing a college sport gets into pretty rarified air but it’s great you did with a science major too.  

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5 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Thanks, Leather.  I missed that too.  Competition is always important at all positions IMO.  

By the way, I’m curious about your pitching. What would be the scouting report on your repertoire?  Throw hard?  Off speed? Control?

Playing a college sport gets into pretty rarified air but it’s great you did with a science major too.  

I was usually around 84-85. Topped out at 87. I don’t know if it was because of my science mind or what, but I had a nasty change up. I always remember one summer league game, it was on fire. Against most of the Eastern Illinois starting lineup, I struck out 10 in 4 innings with only a fastball and changeup. I went 6 1/3 that day, and 3 2/3 the next day...pretty sure that was my shoulder's downfall, but it was to beat our rival and make it to the league championship, so it was worth it! My curveball was decent, nothing spectacular. Control was my main thing. Pounded the bottom of the zone and got a ton of ground balls. My main problems were that I didn't throw hard enough, and I threw too over the top so I could never get movement on my fastball.

The year I played, I was academic all conference, and it was crazy looking at the list of what people majored in. Tough majors were few and far between on that list.

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Thank you for sharing.  I enjoyed it.  

For some reason, I really like hearing people’s experiences.  I like the perspective it gives and I learn a lot.

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ACC is postponing fall sports until after Sept. 1st except for football.  With all the disruptions in training and practice because of shutting down camps, I'm having a hard time being hopeful there will be football this fall. 

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13 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Surprised that Allen isn't listed as "all good...for now".  I think from outside looking in, he maybe shouldn't be rated safer, but if you know the program he is building and the character he is and looks for, it would take multiple bad seasons just to get on the hot seat.  Especially when at least 67 coaches are rated safer than him.

Other notes, have to laugh at Scott Frost.  Went from "untouchable" to "win or be fired".  Couldn't happen to a better douche guy.

Most of the B1G is pretty safe.  Lovie, Ferentz, and Harbaugh were given 3, Frost was a 5, and everybody else was 0, 1, or 2.

I think the only two coaches at risk of falling below 2 this year would be Brohm if Purdue struggles and Locksley at Maryland.  I think every other coach could have a bad year and still be a 0, 1, or 2 unless there are off field incidents like Ferentz had.

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